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I agree with you and the DTK has proven that macOS can be run an A12X/Z chip though unstable. Imagine porting macOS DTK and run it on an iPad Pro 2020. The answer is it maybe unstable for most cases. DTK may have been a flawed beta product and this is probably the reasons Apple wants it back.
Apple always wanted the DTK back. This was never in question. It was explicitly written into the contract. Anyone who assumed that Apple wasn't serious about this is a fool. It had nothing to do with the success or failure of the hardware though I suspect that Apple always knew that the DTK wouldn't live up to their normal hardware lifetime standards.
 
Disagreed here. I'm almost certain the PR department put a dollar amount on the damages due to this $200 issue and they likely found that offering extra $300 outweighs the damages it caused.

This is very similar to the issue where Apple offered a 3 month trial on Apple Music and did not pay royalties to music artists from the trial (which caused Taylor Swift to remove her catalog from Apple Music). PR department put a dollar amount on the public image damage and compared it to the cost of paying royalties for the 3 month trial. They found that reversing course was the most beneficial, financially, and so they did.

While there is a cost for both positive and negative publicity, one cannot compare not paying artists due to a free trial for AppleMusic. Artists signed up for AppleMusic to get compensated for songs played and/or paid, if Apple is running a free trial to introduce and acquire potential customers that is the cost of doing business. Now if Apple signed a contract and had the artists agreement that any songs played during an Apple offered AppleMusic trial will not be compensated then that is a different issue.

Not having Aritist's support ones platform is just as bad as not having Developers.
 
Apple always wanted the DTK back. This was never in question. It was explicitly written into the contract. Anyone who assumed that Apple wasn't serious about this is a fool. It had nothing to do with the success or failure of the hardware though I suspect that Apple always knew that the DTK wouldn't live up to their normal hardware lifetime standards.

I am not sure if a handful of Developer's were planning on holding on to their DTK, but most were planning on returning it within the appropriate timeframe. The question being is that if Apple believed in Rosetta2 and it was less than six months from releasing the M1, why even bother with the DTK. We have heard that some Intel apps runs on par if not better on AppleSilicon so why offer an unstable/unreliable DTK. Ah I forgot it was to offer Developers a chance to test and develop their software for the introduction of AppleSilicon. More native titles on launch means more potential customers and quicker adoption of AppleSilicon. This is a bigger benefit for Apple as those Developers software will still work under Rosetta2, so are you saying Apple may have made a mistake to even offer the DTK.
 
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I am not sure if a handful of Developer's were planning on holding on to their DTK, but most were planning on returning it within the appropriate timeframe. The question being is that if Apple believed in Rosetta2 and it was less than six months from releasing the M1, why even bother with the DTK. We have heard that some Intel apps runs on par if not better on AppleSilicon so why offer an unstable/unreliable DTK. Ah I forgot it was to offer Developers a chance to test and develop their software for the introduction of AppleSilicon. More native titles on launch means more potential customers and quicker adoption of AppleSilicon. This is a bigger benefit for Apple as those Developers software will still work under Rosetta2, so are you saying Apple may have made a mistake to even offer the DTK.
Where do I say that it was a mistake? I do think the failure rate for the hardware was somewhat higher than expected otherwise it is likely that they would have had replacement units available. Most developers probably got what they expected out of the program (which is still in progress, just the DTK has to be returned.)

If any developers planned on holding onto a DTK after signing a contract saying that they would return them upon request deserves whatever attention Apple wants to apply. Like I said, if you thought Apple wasn't serious about the return requirement, then you would be a fool. It was called out way too many times in bold in the contract to not understand that Apple was serious about it.
 
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While there is a cost for both positive and negative publicity, one cannot compare not paying artists due to a free trial for AppleMusic. Artists signed up for AppleMusic to get compensated for songs played and/or paid, if Apple is running a free trial to introduce and acquire potential customers that is the cost of doing business. Now if Apple signed a contract and had the artists agreement that any songs played during an Apple offered AppleMusic trial will not be compensated then that is a different issue.

Not having Aritist's support ones platform is just as bad as not having Developers.
i'm talking about how Apple handled the negative PR. both cases are likely handled in a similar fashion. they put a dollar amount on the damages.
 
Technically it’s a mutual relationship. Developers can spread the risk between Windows, Linux and Android. Some developers only program for Apple and some don’t support. At the end of the day Apple is not an island and with web/cloud based apps where AWS is focused this will be getting complicated and competitive.

I guess Apple does not need developers hence it has an annual WWDC event.
I never said Apple doesn't need developers. I said the developers here (if there are developers here rather than liaisons sticking up for them 🙄) need to stop pretending they are doing Apple a favor by coding for them because a few here are on their high horse. Recognize something, Apple (like Microsoft) can simply terminate a developer account and still be 100% fine whereas the developers here (who are making this their sole living) NEED their business to remain stable so losing Apple would be a huge loss.

Yes it is a mutual relationship but to be honest Apple kinda doesn't NEED developers as much as some think they do. Apple does make their own software which is very good. They make their own successful OS supported by a very capable Apple office suite. Their own successful web browser. They also make very good professional software such as Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X and they had professional photo editing in the past as well their current very capable Photos app.

As far as Apple giving this $500 credit.....well.....sometimes Apple makes bad decisions.
 
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I am not sure if a handful of Developer's were planning on holding on to their DTK, but most were planning on returning it within the appropriate timeframe. The question being is that if Apple believed in Rosetta2 and it was less than six months from releasing the M1, why even bother with the DTK. We have heard that some Intel apps runs on par if not better on AppleSilicon so why offer an unstable/unreliable DTK. Ah I forgot it was to offer Developers a chance to test and develop their software for the introduction of AppleSilicon. More native titles on launch means more potential customers and quicker adoption of AppleSilicon. This is a bigger benefit for Apple as those Developers software will still work under Rosetta2, so are you saying Apple may have made a mistake to even offer the DTK.
if 2 year okay , if 2 month not okay . :) .
 
I never said Apple doesn't need developers. I said the developers here (if there are developers here rather than liaisons sticking up for them 🙄) need to stop pretending they are doing Apple a favor by coding for them because a few here are on their high horse. Recognize something, Apple (like Microsoft) can simply terminate a developer account and still be 100% fine whereas the developers here (who are making this their sole living) NEED their business to remain stable so losing Apple would be a huge loss.

Yes it is a mutual relationship but to be honest Apple kinda doesn't NEED developers as much as some think they do. Apple does make their own software which is very good. They make their own successful OS supported by a very capable Apple office suite. Their own successful web browser. They also make very good professional software such as Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X and they had professional photo editing in the past as well their current very capable Photos app.

As far as Apple giving this $500 credit.....well.....sometimes Apple makes bad decisions.
disagree , even apple is strict on developer before publishing . They are very helpful helping to identify the problem. While google dont even give a chance and block the apps on the spot without telling the violation detail.

Apple , Microsoft purchase other company and make them as default software and not all they making themselves.

Apple needs "tester" not "developer" . Apple only need "developer" when they release new freakin beta "xcode"
 
I never said Apple doesn't need developers. I said the developers here (if there are developers here rather than liaisons sticking up for them 🙄) need to stop pretending they are doing Apple a favor by coding for them because a few here are on their high horse. Recognize something, Apple (like Microsoft) can simply terminate a developer account and still be 100% fine whereas the developers here (who are making this their sole living) NEED their business to remain stable so losing Apple would be a huge loss.

Yes it is a mutual relationship but to be honest Apple kinda doesn't NEED developers as much as some think they do. Apple does make their own software which is very good. They make their own successful OS supported by a very capable Apple office suite. Their own successful web browser. They also make very good professional software such as Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X and they had professional photo editing in the past as well their current very capable Photos app.

As far as Apple giving this $500 credit.....well.....sometimes Apple makes bad decisions.

Apple does not need developers as much as developers need Apple, now I have heard everything. Wake me up when Apple releases a 3D modelling, animation, rendering software title of its own from the ground up. Come back to me when companies such as Adobe or Microsoft stop releasing their software for macOS, how much do you want to wager that even with AppleSilicon, macOS platform will tank.

Some developers felt the initial offer was unreasonable, they became vocal, it got attention and Apple reconsidered, that's how these things work. Tell me in your neighbourhood if the local government or a contractor is trying to overstep what would you do to make it right, sit back and accept it or say, well I chose to stay and pay taxes to live in this neighbourhood and city so I should just accept it.

Apple is not loosing sleep over an additional $300 credit that has to be used in the AppleStore and it will collect some profit from that, so it's a win/win for Apple and a win/win for developers. But hey it seems to bother you that Apple offered an additional sum and developers are happy.
 
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i'm talking about how Apple handled the negative PR. both cases are likely handled in a similar fashion. they put a dollar amount on the damages.

A dollar figure is put on everything, its called Risk (Legal/Financial) Management. Tim Cook gives a speech here or there within his official title, Risk Management comes into play. What do you think a CEO like Tim Cook just wakes up every morning and agrees to anything that comes across his secretaries and advisors desk without an approval process. This is not about a decision of what to eat for breakfast.
 
Where do I say that it was a mistake? I do think the failure rate for the hardware was somewhat higher than expected otherwise it is likely that they would have had replacement units available. Most developers probably got what they expected out of the program (which is still in progress, just the DTK has to be returned.)

If any developers planned on holding onto a DTK after signing a contract saying that they would return them upon request deserves whatever attention Apple wants to apply. Like I said, if you thought Apple wasn't serious about the return requirement, then you would be a fool. It was called out way too many times in bold in the contract to not understand that Apple was serious about it.

I never said the DTK never had to be returned, were a few developers considering it maybe but we won't know until we see these units surface for sale after some months or years. Why speculate when the deed has not been completed.
 
Apple always wanted the DTK back. This was never in question. It was explicitly written into the contract. Anyone who assumed that Apple wasn't serious about this is a fool. It had nothing to do with the success or failure of the hardware though I suspect that Apple always knew that the DTK wouldn't live up to their normal hardware lifetime standards.
No one is claiming Apple did not want the units back, maybe some were considering going against returning it but we don't know that until it has happened.
 
Lordy @code-m is combating everyone’s post disagreeing with the developer’s act of entitlement in regards to the DTK. I guess people here are not allowed to express their opinion about the subject unless they agreeing with @code-m SMH.
 
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Lordy @code-m is combating everyone’s post disagreeing with the developer’s act of entitlement in regards to the DTK. I guess people here are not allowed to express their opinion about the subject unless they agreeing with @code-m SMH.
If you are part of the DTK, then return it and don’t collect the $500 credit or donate it to a local charity. If you are against the credit and still collect it and keep it then that makes one a hypocrite. ;)
 
If you are part of the DTK, then return it and don’t collect the $500 credit or donate it to a local charity. If you are against the credit and still collect it and keep it then that makes one a hypocrite. ;)
I have no idea why you even said that. Where did I say anything about keeping the equipment? Your post with that silly wink is out of place based on anything I’ve said so far. Not sure why you feel the need to combat every single post here not in the same camp you’re in. 🙄
 
No one is claiming Apple did not want the units back, maybe some were considering going against returning it but we don't know that until it has happened.
I must have misunderstood this part of your post then.
DTK may have been a flawed beta product and this is probably the reasons Apple wants it back.
You imply that Apple probably only wants the DTK back because it is a flawed beta product. This is not the case as I said, Apple always wanted them back, flawed or not. They were explicit about this in the contract.
 
Lordy @code-m is combating everyone’s post disagreeing with the developer’s act of entitlement in regards to the DTK. I guess people here are not allowed to express their opinion about the subject unless they agreeing with @code-m SMH.
no problem to dis agree . If before the anxiety new product is high if "apple product" .But when hobby become work, it become don't touch it no money.

Some people register apple developer just to get latest beta but mostly not developer, i see youtuber get dtk just pure show off.

Conclusion cheers man . want a wink ?;)
 
no problem to dis agree . If before the anxiety new product is high if "apple product" .But when hobby become work, it become don't touch it no money.
WOW! Not a stitch of this post makes any sense grammatically. I have no idea what you are even talking about, especially in regards to my post that you quoted. 🤷‍♂️
 
WOW! Not a stitch of this post makes any sense grammatically. I have no idea what you are even talking about, especially in regards to my post that you quoted. 🤷‍♂️
pure simple , keep as simple stupid(kiss) . To way complicated and make think easier. ;)
 
pure simple , keep as simple stupid(kiss) . To way complicated and make think easier. ;)
THINGS would be easier if you proofread your posts before posting. Still nothing you're saying has anything to do with my post you quoted. I was calling another member out for constantly combating people's posts that he doesn't agree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We don't need a busy bee telling everybody he doesn't agree and that they are wrong for stating their opinion. He's taking it personally with anyone who doesn't agree with the entitlement thrown here about the DTK and that makes zero sense, and it's a bit silly.
 
THINGS would be easier if you proofread your posts before posting. Still nothing you're saying has anything to do with my post you quoted. I was calling another member out for constantly combating people's posts that he doesn't agree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We don't need a busy bee telling everybody he doesn't agree and that they are wrong for stating their opinion. He's taking it personally with anyone who doesn't agree with the entitlement thrown here about the DTK and that makes zero sense, and it's a bit silly.
Yes , you think to much grammar and so on and less focus on the topic itself.

If being a "tester" get money nobody will complain but being a "tester" need to paid and buggy , everybody will complain. Being number one is useless in software development. Older people would focus on long term stable(lts) instead new unknown product to support.
 
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I have no idea why you even said that. Where did I say anything about keeping the equipment? Your post with that silly wink is out of place based on anything I’ve said so far. Not sure why you feel the need to combat every single post here not in the same camp you’re in. 🙄
Are you against the credit, yes or no?
 
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