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You're just going to have to come to terms with the fact that it won't be coming to macOS.

I'm moving on, and building a rig specifically so I can play Diablo and Age of Empires 4.
 
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well I could understand if it was a new game like Diablo 4 (I guess) for them not making it work on intel macs.. this game has worked for all macOS versions until catalina,

I'm hoping that there was just some issue with this game being so old and 32-bit being the reason why it couldn't be updated
Make no mistake, from a technical point of view, this is a new game. New everything except for story and gameplay mechanics. Everything else is new from scratch, so it's not an update.

I don’t think it is still 32 bit. The game is coming to the Switch which is ARM. Yet, still no mention on coming to M1 mac at least...
Completely different systems. Have a look at Apples SoC and then at the Switch, which is based on Nvidia hardware. Just because something is running on the Switch doesn't mean it can be simply ported to Apple Silicon.


But they had no reason to make a native M1 version. The game works well under Rosetta.
Depends on how it's done in the first place. In a perfect world, all it needs is the switch of a compiler flag and it's M1 ready. Worst case scenario, you have to start from scratch.
 
Completely different systems. Have a look at Apples SoC and then at the Switch, which is based on Nvidia hardware. Just because something is running on the Switch doesn't mean it can be simply ported to Apple Silicon.

That's not exactly true. The major difference is Apple's GPU requires the use of Metal (just like on Intel macOS), and the Switch uses Vulkan/OpenGL.

But both the Switch and Apple Silicon follow the ARMv8 standard. They are both share the same ARMv8 instruction set, and are compatible. It's like AMD and Intel. The CPUs might be different under the hood, but they are completely compatible on the front end.

If Apple wanted to, they could even implement Vulkan drivers for their GPUs and have full compatibility on the GPU end too.

Apple contractually as an ARM licensee has to implement the ARMv8 standard. They have follow the compatibility standards, and so does Nintendo/Nvidia. And it's not speculation that their CPUs are instruction compatible. They really are instruction compatible.

Depends on how it's done in the first place. In a perfect world, all it needs is the switch of a compiler flag and it's M1 ready. Worst case scenario, you have to start from scratch.

I can't even think of a situation where an ARM port would have to start from scratch. The same programming languages are both available on ARM and x86. The idea that you'd have to start from scratch to get onto ARM is just silly.

Whatever is going on, Blizzard specifically has a problem/hangup with Apple and macOS. It's not ARM. Could be they don't like Metal. Could be they don't like Apple any more. Could be that the marketshare is too low for Activision. But it's not ARM.

My guess is when Activision fired Team 1 at Blizzard, Activision also fired all the Mac developers who were on Team 1. No more Mac developers, no more Mac ports.
 
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That's not exactly true. The major difference is Apple's GPU requires the use of Metal (just like on Intel macOS), and the Switch uses Vulkan/OpenGL.
And that isn't a big enough a difference for you? What's easier, going from another OpenGL/Vulkan with any CPU to Switch or having to use Metal which locks you into a specific eco system?
If Apple wanted to, they could even implement Vulkan drivers for their GPUs and have full compatibility on the GPU end too.
Never going to happen.
I can't even think of a situation where an ARM port would have to start from scratch.
Good, start by porting this to M1: https://github.com/stepjam/RLBench
Hint, they're running UI code off the main thread. Good luck porting and let me know when you're done. My research group would really appreciate it. Meanwhile we'll keep using Dell workstations and GPU clusters to get things done.

When done properly, this should not be an issue. Unfortunately in all the decades in developing software for industry applications and research, including embedded systems, projects that do it "properly" are rare.
Could be they don't like Metal.
Metal is great, if you want to lock yourself into an eco system. When someone is building an app for Apple only, there's nothing wrong with it. As soon as you have to go somewhere else, it's a burden no one wants to carry.
 
And that isn't a big enough a difference for you? What's easier, going from another OpenGL/Vulkan with any CPU to Switch or having to use Metal which locks you into a specific eco system?

Ecosystem lock doesn't really matter to developers. DirectX is an ecosystem lock. Doesn't stop Diablo 2 from running on Switch and PS5.

It's only a big deal when you don't have Metal developer. And... Blizzard just fired Team 1 and probably all their Metal-developers-who-aren't-on-World-of-Warcraft with them.

Good, start by porting this to M1: https://github.com/stepjam/RLBench
Hint, they're running UI code off the main thread. Good luck porting and let me know when you're done. My research group would really appreciate it. Meanwhile we'll keep using Dell workstations and GPU clusters to get things done.

Uhhhh is this a joke? UI code is supposed to go on the main thread. Even on macOS. Even if what you mean is "UI code not on the main thread" that's pretty trivially fixable.

Looks like your holdup is PyRep. It's a macOS issue that has nothing to do with ARM or "UI code off the main thread." I'd be happy to send you my rates but I'm guessing you aren't serious.

Edit: Ha! PyRep implemented their UI code off the main thread? That IS the holdup? Haaaaaa. I'm amazed they can't fix that, or that they're doing that on other platforms where it is also a bad thing. But it's not hard to fix, and has nothing to do with ARM. Same thing is true on macOS on Intel. macOS also will let you call UI off the main thread, but it's kind of iffy. But that's really uhhhh, special of em.

OpenGL and Metal and whatever else are all thread sensitive so you wouldn't see this sort of thing in a game engine anyway.

Edit 2: Yeah, I see what they're doing. It's absolutely fixable, I've fixed this sort of thing before in other renderers. They likely just don't care.

When done properly, this should not be an issue. Unfortunately in all the decades in developing software for industry applications and research, including embedded systems, projects that do it "properly" are rare.

I've literally never seen this problem, and I've ported stuff to ARM that's literally decades old without having to re-write it from scratch.

Metal is great, if you want to lock yourself into an eco system. When someone is building an app for Apple only, there's nothing wrong with it. As soon as you have to go somewhere else, it's a burden no one wants to carry.

DirectX.

(Almost like the real problem is market share and not Metal.)
 
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Ecosystem lock doesn't really matter to developers. DirectX is an ecosystem lock.
Let me rephrase that, locking into a eco system where no serious money is to be made. You'll find ecosystems everywhere, including Nvidia with Cuda and all their tools. And for most people that is ok, because there is no alternative. The difference is, everyone is using it. If I could jump off the Nvidia train, I'd happily do it. But where exactly do I go if I need 500 GPUs in a Cluster? Not to speak of the software side of things.
Uhhhh is this a joke? UI code is supposed to go on the main thread. Even on macOS. Even if what you mean is "UI code not on the main thread" that's pretty trivially fixable.
UI code off the main thread = not on the main thread. So many people still do it. It's one of the reasons I let my students fail whenever anyone is submitting such code. It's just not acceptable.
Looks like your holdup is PyRep. It's a macOS issue that has nothing to do with ARM or "UI code off the main thread." I'd be happy to send you my rates but I'm guessing you aren't serious.
Of course I'm not serious, because it's not worth to fix it. I could fix it myself, but it's not worth the time. If you fix this one thing, then you have to fix the next one and the next and so on. And before you look at it, you'll have to maintain 1000 different tools that someone else screwed up. Who's paying for that in the end? It's much cheaper to just buy additional hardware und run it there, money is usually never an issue for getting immediate tools that just work vs. maintaining multiple projects.
Edit 2: Yeah, I see what they're doing. It's absolutely fixable, I've fixed this sort of thing before in other renderers. They likely just don't care.
They don't. Few people do, you'll find these things pretty much everywhere in the research world.
I've literally never seen this problem, and I've ported stuff to ARM that's literally decades old without having to re-write it from scratch.
So have I and I've run into problems that were so time consuming that it's just not feasible doing it. I've found that problems usually are caused by those who don't care much and cause these problems. Look at Path of Exile, it won't run on M1, neither native nor with Rosetta. They're using 3rd party libs making use of AVX instructions that Rosetta can't translate. They only have three options, do nothing, wait for the 3rd party to update their libs or throw the 3rd party stuff out and replace it with their own stuff.

In case of WoW for the M1, I'd guess they had things done to spec for macOS on x86 and that's why they simply "flipped a switch".
 
GrumpyCoder — Maybe I’ll get a switch for Diablo 2 and I guess Diablo 4 since it seems they are abandoning macOS.. my bro says he thinks it will come out on macOS because there’s a lot of $$ to be made.
 
I literally do not know a single person who owns a Switch. And there are definitely more people owning Arm Apple hardware than PS4 5 and Xbox. Weird decision on activision. They haven’t been relevant in 10+ years though. The fact they have to resurrect 20 year old games to get revenue says a lot.
 
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I literally do not know a single person who owns a Switch. And there are definitely more people owning Arm Apple hardware than PS4 5 and Xbox. Weird decision on activision. They haven’t been relevant in 10+ years though. The fact they have to resurrect 20 year old games to get revenue says a lot.
Over 70 million switch units sold. Over 114 million PS. So you must be kidding regarding sales numbers. Also, not everyone who owns Apple ARM hardware is going to buy a game, most people actually work with their computers and have a console in addition. Not everyone who owns a TV or monitor also has a Apple TV+ subscription (or Disney+, Netflix, etc.).

The fact they have to resurrect a 20 year old game is because people have been crying for years to do so. And it's not just them. Look at how many remakes are sold in the whole industry. Look at Nintendos classic games, the classic hardware. This is relatively easy to do and cheap, given the average new AAA title costs around 50 million to make, with larger ones much more expensive (>250 million for something like GTA5).
 
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You're just going to have to come to terms with the fact that it won't be coming to macOS.

I'm moving on, and building a rig specifically so I can play Diablo and Age of Empires 4.
I don't have the money to buy anything new // build a second computer for gaming. But maybe I can partition my drives for windows or maybe I'll eventually get a switch
 
I don't agree that M1s are niche computers. Now you don't develop games only for macOS, you develop it for millions of devices on iOS, iPad, AND macOS. So to make a game available on Apple platform (we should not name it Mac only I strongly believe) is a VERY good idea for any developer. Imagine Diablo 2 available on all iPhones? Just plug it in to a display or a TV, have a controller and enjoy the game!
 
I don't agree that M1s are niche computers. Now you don't develop games only for macOS, you develop it for millions of devices on iOS, iPad, AND macOS. So to make a game available on Apple platform (we should not name it Mac only I strongly believe) is a VERY good idea for any developer. Imagine Diablo 2 available on all iPhones? Just plug it in to a display or a TV, have a controller and enjoy the game!
9to5 has this Jan 6th, 2021 article "M1 Macs market share 0.8%; will be 7% by summer – TrendForce"

As mentioned elsewhere we really need to see majority of Mac computers that are transitioned to some kind of Apple SiliconeCPU/GPU before anyone would look at this differently. 3 low cost models (Air/13" MacBookPro/MacMini) is not going to start a avalanche of users migrating processor platforms. PC/Mac games use more sophisticated playstyle then iPhones/Ipads, and Diablo Immortal meant for them was royally booed when it was announced. This upcoming WWDC should be more important then even that last one. :)
 
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9to5 has this Jan 6th, 2021 article "M1 Macs market share 0.8%; will be 7% by summer – TrendForce"

As mentioned elsewhere we really need to see majority of Mac computers that are transitioned to some kind of Apple SiliconeCPU/GPU before anyone would look at this differently. 3 low cost models (Air/13" MacBookPro/MacMini) is not going to start a avalanche of users migrating processor platforms. PC/Mac games use more sophisticated playstyle then iPhones/Ipads, and Diablo Immortal meant for them was royally booed when it was announced. This upcoming WWDC should be more important then even that last one. :)
Well, we all know how much time it takes to develop a game so it's better to start now as it's obvious that Apple Silicons are already fast and are going to be faster. And again — it's not only about M1, it's also about A14 ad A14X, and M1X already this year which is expected to run as fast as MacBook Pro 16 with hi-end 5600M graphics which gives over 100 FPS in Call of Duty Warzone at 1080p. To make games for Apple (forget the Macs, it's for all Apple devices) now is a very good investment.
 
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Diablo Immortal meant for them was royally booed when it was announced.
Oh by Odins beard was it ever. I was watching and I just couldn't believe it. Lets gather the most hardcore of our fans from AROUND the world, at a convention that is centred around some of the most hardcore PC games to come out in the last 2 decades, and then tell these people that the next instalment in a series they love... is a mobile game.

Good job lads. A Winner Is You.

"YOU ALL HAVE PHONES, DON'T YOU?!"
 
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Oh by Odins beard was it ever. I was watching and I just couldn't believe it. Lets gather the most hardcore of our fans from AROUND the world, at a convention that is centred around some of the most hardcore PC games to come out in the last 2 decades, and then tell these people that the next instalment in a series they love... is a mobile game.

Good job lads. A Winner Is You.

"YOU ALL HAVE PHONES, DON'T YOU?!"
Dude--- Don't have guys have phones?

(yeah but I have an iPad I'd rather play it on, or even better, if it was on M1 macs.)
 
Can’t blame them. It’s hardly worthwhile to develop for macOS and especially m1. Blame apple. It’s up to them to attract developers.
how is it hardly worthwhile? m1 D2 would work on iOS/iPad as well. iOS users purchase more paid apps than android users by a large margin in my research is correct. There's a huge market, I believe around 1 billion iOS/iPad owners worldwide
 
how is it hardly worthwhile? m1 D2 would work on iOS/iPad as well. iOS users purchase more paid apps than android users by a large margin in my research is correct. There's a huge market, I believe around 1 billion iOS/iPad owners worldwide
I believe having to redesign an interface to be able to handle touch sensitivity for Diablo 2 would be a nightmare. It is possible they could port whatever they are doing for Diablo Immortal to it, but there's no promise that game isn't on rails so to speak. Any time a game has key binds greater than just left click, I immediately am doubtful of its ability to function on iOS.

This is why iOS games get such stigma. You do not have as much control options as you do on a computer, or even a console by default.
 
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The best thing about Diablo 2 is that it features cross platform progression. It would be great of blizz to support macOS for Diablo 2 and 4 but I don't care if I can play on Xbox Series X, PS5, Switch or PC with the same data save.
 
I believe having to redesign an interface to be able to handle touch sensitivity for Diablo 2 would be a nightmare. It is possible they could port whatever they are doing for Diablo Immortal to it, but there's no promise that game isn't on rails so to speak. Any time a game has key binds greater than just left click, I immediately am doubtful of its ability to function on iOS.

This is why iOS games get such stigma. You do not have as much control options as you do on a computer, or even a console by default.
I can easily have my ipad connect to a keyboard and mouse. I have no idea what you're talking about. It's not that hard to make pop up menus
 
I believe having to redesign an interface to be able to handle touch sensitivity for Diablo 2 would be a nightmare.
The interface itself is only part of it. The gameplay mechanics would change as well and that'd be most likely the much bigger issue. Console interfaces are already much different for these type of games and while they probably did a really good job for D3 on this, I'm personally not a fan. Consoles have the advantage of offering haptic feedback to the user, which is not the case for touchscreens.

Just demanding from people to buy additional gamepads, mouse, keyboard, etc. wouldn't fly well with the app requirements and neither is it a good idea to do that. Imagine people buying a game and then not able to play it. Not going to happen. But again, app requirements demand a proper interface before the app can hit the store, so this won't happen anyway.
 
The shareholder apathy out there is at dangerous levels.

I can't believe not a single Activision/Blizzard shareholder tried to oust the entire management team when Apple announced they had a BILLION mobile devices out there, and none of them are running WoW/Diablo/StarCraft, et cetera.

I completely fail to understand how that isn't a massive shareholder suit for breach of fiduciary responsibilities. To willfully ignore a market that large should be actionable.

As far as the whole force-you-to-buy-accessories issue; do you seriously think that revenue is a downside for Activision/Blizzard? Do you seriously believe people don't buy custom keyboards/mice to play games such as WoW?
 
Do you seriously believe people don't buy custom keyboards/mice to play games such as WoW?
I have bought several Logitech G keyboards AND mice over the last many moons with the sole intention to utilize them to play World of Warcraft. During The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Cataclysm, several of my friends had the SteelSeries WoW mouse as well as those odd Z-board chummies.
 
I can't believe not a single Activision/Blizzard shareholder tried to oust the entire management team when Apple announced they had a BILLION mobile devices out there, and none of them are running WoW/Diablo/StarCraft, et cetera.
Hem... This is true for most PC games, you know.
Handheld devices are not designed to run these games.
 
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One should think someone claiming to be a coder can read. Pity.

Hardware Compatibility 2.4.3 - Quote :

"People should be able to use your Apple TV app without the need for hardware inputs beyond the Siri remote or third-party game controllers, but feel free to provide enhanced functionality when other peripherals are connected. If you require a game controller, make sure you clearly explain that in your metadata so customers know they need additional equipment to play."

So yes - anyone developing for iOS would be able to design, build and sell privately branded game controllers for use with a game written for iOS.

This is the only mention in the source YOU provided. Apple has been known to do goofy things in the past, but I doubt such a fundamental business practice would be misinterpreted or changed when applied to iOS or iPadOS.

Just to recap : I can read and you cannot. I am right, and you are wrong by your own source.
 
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