Did I spend twice as much over a Windows Notebook on a disposable piece of eye candy?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by klinic, Jun 28, 2014.

  1. klinic macrumors member

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    Apr 7, 2011
    #1
    When I first bought my MacBook Pro back in February of 2011 I had heard wonders of Apples service and the way they were different to other computer manufacturers. I was straight off the boat of buying my iPhone 4 and fell in love with the way things just worked in the Apple ecosystem. It was different to anything else I had used before. Being very interested in video editing and audio production I jumped ship after playing in the Apple store for a few weeks and bought a fully loaded 17” MacBook Pro with all the extras. I loved this computer and it served me well. Until it didn’t. My purchase that day in the Apple store set me back over $4000. In contrast, the computer I am writing this rant on cost under $700 and is nearly two years older. This Asus laptop has been through tumbles, severe falls, and bits of it have fallen off and are no longer with us. It still works as good as the day my partner purchased it though.

    My 5 times as expensive MacBook Pro on the other hand, was treated with much more care. It has received one minor bump in it’s lifespan and has always been kept inside a secure case. I feel like my partner’s Asus laptop is still serving us faithfully after it’s years of torment. My MacBook Pro just checked out without so much as a see you later a few months after its apple care expired and left us with a large repair bill.

    After spending this tremendous amount of money on what was meant to be a dream workhorse, a luxury machine, my repair bill is larger than the cost of this Windows laptop which has lasted longer. Even if my Windows PC DOES fail ,and no one can deny that Apple has better build quality, I can replace it multiple times over without even approaching the cost of an Apple notebook, by the end of it I’ll have a much newer machine too!

    I feel quite taken advantage of to be honest. All this money on a top of the line machine with extra product care and I’m far worse off than if I’d purchased a $700 notebook. Or two of them. Maybe one for under the fridge as well.

    Why should I continue to be a loyal Apple Customer? Sure, it was lovely while it lasted. A Windows machine would have been too, and I’d still be able to use it or it’s replacement now. Did I spend twice as much money on a disposable piece of eye candy?

    Do I expect Apple to just replace my machine months after the warranty has expired? No, I don’t think so. But this is a manufacturing issue. The video card dying in 2011 MacBook Pro is a well documented issue, one that Apple has thus far ignored. I thought that I might be better taken care of in person, instead it was suggested that maybe I buy a new machine. We have financing options to reduce the impact of the cost. I suppose that’ll help when I have to get it repaired in three years too.
     
  2. capathy21 macrumors 65816

    capathy21

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    #2
    No is the short answer, here is the long.
    No one forced you to choose a 4,000 Mac. You know it is an electronic device and electronic devices fail, sometimes over a long period of time, and sometimes a shorter period of time.

    If you take 100 Asus laptops made in 2009, and 100 Macbook Pro's made in 2011, you will have a significantly higher number of Macbook Pro's that are still functioning flawlessly today. Mac's have a longer lifespan and their build quality is light years above the competition. Just because you happened to get a really good windows machine 6 years ago, and a possibly faulty MBP 4 years ago does not mean that you were taken advantage of.

    I don't mean to come off sounding like a douche but you did ask the question so I am answering it. I can understand your frustration of the MBP needing costly repairs but on the same token, how long do you really expect a computer to last? 4-6 years out of a machine is really good IMO. The fact that you are still getting good performance out of a 6 year old Asus is the exception and not the rule for Windows laptops. Just because you spent 4,000 on a Mac does not mean that it is excluded from being an electronic device with the ability to fail just the same as a 1,000 Macbook or a 700 dollar Windows machine.

    If you got 4 years out of the MBP, I don't consider that disposable at all. I think because you spend 4,000, your expectations were too high, as if that machine was going to last and perform 4 times as long as say a 1,000 Macbook Air just because it cost 4 times as much.

    Maybe my expectations are just too low. I just picked up two new Mac's (one Air and one rMBP) and if they last 3 or 4 years, I will definitely feel I got my money's worth out of them.
     
  3. pragmatous macrumors 65816

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    May 23, 2012
    #3
    Not to mention the mac is a much better user experience than PC.

    I like how I never have to worry about drivers... :D :apple:

     
  4. klinic thread starter macrumors member

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    Apr 7, 2011
    #4
    I highly disagree with you. The point of macs is that they're supposed to last longer and be built better. There was a flaw with the construction of the laptop.

    Many people had problems with this model, having a few minor problems with it after the warranty, fine, that's alright. Having to replace a HDD or a few minor things, eh, alright. My whole machine is dead though. I do expect a premium machine to last according to its pricetag. The fact that I could have replaced a Windows laptop multiple times while spending the same amount means that the MacBook really was a waste of money.

    If I'd spent half the price, I would have gotten a machine probably close to as good and, even if it did fail, I could have replaced it and still been better off. True, no one forced me to buy it but I was under the impression that I would be getting a better machine for my money. I'm not saying that Apple are evil and stole from me. I'm just disappointed and feel as though I could have gotten far better value for my money elsewhere. I KNOW I paid a huge premium, I just expected to get treated a little better because of it.

    My experience on Apple at the moment is that I have nothing. On Windows I'm still using a decent machine, at 1/5th of the price.
     
  5. 12dylan34, Jun 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014

    12dylan34 macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    A $700 PC and a $4000 MacBook aren't comparable machines, so most of your rant is pretty senseless. A more expensive machine isn't more expensive because it lasts longer; it's more expensive because it has better specs.

    They don't make the 17 inch MBP anymore, and the line maxes out a bit above $3000, but find me a comparable PC for appreciably cheaper.

    Aside from that, you got a bad MacBook. My 6 year old MBP still runs fine, so it's not every machine.
     
  6. yjchua95 macrumors 604

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    Location:
    GVA, KUL, MEL (current), ZQN
    #6
    OP, I feel you.

    My 15" early-2011 machine succumbed to Radeongate sometime in March this year, and it failed 3 days out of AppleCare. Boy, was I hopping mad and swearing like a Dutch sailor.

    Those people whose machines failed within AppleCare, they were lucky. All they had to do was just to send it in for logic board replacements 3-4 times and by the 3rd or 4th repair, they were offered a free 15" retina MBP with minimum specs of 2.3GHz i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD and 2GB 750M.

    I have since sent my 15" 2011 machine for a reballing. Since all the Sandy Bridge boards with the Radoen GPU have the same manufacturing flaw, logic board replacements won't work. Only a reballing of the GPU will work.
     
  7. thundersteele macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Location:
    Switzerland
    #7
    Apple should man up and offer extended warranties for the 2011 models with Radeon GPUs. It is not acceptable. I have one of those models at home - bought a bit after my previous machine suffered from the 8600M GT failure.

    When I was in a similar situation a few years ago, Apple offered me a flat rate repair (about $300). Where did you go to get your machine checked?


    It is understandable that you are upset, so I'm not gonna comment on the rest of the rant.

    BTW, I have learned my lesson - my most recent purchase was a 13'' rMBP with only moderate upgrades. No wasting money on 16 GB or 512 GB or i7 CPUs that I might need in 3 years, because I don't know if the machine will live that long. Also I will feel better about upgrading if some nice new technology appears :)
     
  8. klinic thread starter macrumors member

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    Apr 7, 2011
    #8
    This sums up how I feel quite well. It was a faulty machine. There was something wrong with how it was made. Something didn't just wear out over time, it was a flawed design. :/

    I so agree, so many people are suffering from the problem. I hope I have lent my little voice to complaining about it, and maybe Apple will change their minds. I don't mind the idea of paying ~$700 to be upgraded to a model that won't have this problem again. But being replaced with the same faulty parts? :/
     
  9. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    Pa
    #9
    Yeah, I learned my lesson with Apple, don't use a mac for anything important, they'll screw you over. But then I forgot, used a mac for school, and they had it for over a week to replace the RAM. Then I forgot again, and the mail app stopped checking for new messages. When I finally realized it, I had about 3 days of unread work emails. Now I have dell.com up in another tab and I'm looking at their Latitude 7240. It's about $1400 for something comparable to the 13" MBP, but with a touch screen and warranty included.
     
  10. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    Jun 2, 2010
    #10
    The Op has a valid point on the very high failure rate of this particular model. The Logic board failure is well documented and Apple should have done a recall on this machine.
     
  11. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #11
    I on the other hand have never have issues with my 2011 MBP ever. Just because you got a faulty product doesn't mean that all of us were affected.
     
  12. klinic thread starter macrumors member

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    Apr 7, 2011
    #12
    Thank you. I would be quite upset, but more understanding if this was a chance failure that unluckily occurred barely out of warranty.

    It's a well documented issue though, and is the result of a manufacturing error and has been present since I purchased the computer. I do believe Apple should be more accommodating in this situation. In fact I believe they may be in violation of Australian Consumer Laws which do, in fact, agree that the price does have an indication about the expected lifespan of the product. I have lodged an inquiry with the ACCC, and expect to hear back from them within the fortnight. If Apple are within their rights, I will be disappointed but accept it and report back.

    If I am right and they are in violation of ACL, then I shall report back a lot happier and, assuming Apple make good on their obligations, be a lot happier with them. As I've said, they may not have done anything wrong, but I do think that they have and will follow up on it to the best of my abilities.

    No, but a lot of people have. The same can be said for you. If the problem is real and there is a manufacturing error, you will be affected. The fact that you have so far been lucky does not mean that many, many people have not been affected by this problem.
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    Boston
    #13
    You bring up a valid and cogent point, one of which I'm agreeing with. I can't see spending so much money on what is now a commodity.

    While Windows does have its flaws, I would rather spend 700 dollars instead of 4000. One thing is for sure, my budget for my next computer is going to be much more constrained. I'm not about to spend 2,000 on a 15" MBP.

    So far my 2 year old MBP is doing well, but as I look back at spending my money, I'll not be dropping that kind of money just to have a better user experience.
     
  14. Rolly1988 macrumors newbie

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    Jun 4, 2014
    #14
    I appreciate this is very very annoying but with regards to the repair costs, think about the following. When you buy a car from cheaper car manufacturer and something goes wrong, it is usually cheaper to repair, whether thats using OEM or third party parts. When you buy a car from a more expensive manufacturer of cars, a lot of the time it is more expensive to repair, again regardless of the fact you use OEM or third party parts. The same rule applies here. It doesn't always mean the more expensive car, or in this case, laptop, is going to last as long.

    There is no guarantee for either of these products that the more expensive version will last longer, luck plays its part and in your case it seems luck was at play. In the majority of cases a Mac, just like a more expensive car, will last longer and be a lot more reliable but there are always exceptions to this and they are usually more costly. I have a 7 year old white macbook and it has served me well throughout this time. A lot of my friends have had windows laptops and they have all changed it at least once in the past 7 seven years and not because of choice. On the other hand, with cars I have been unlucky like you, buying a higher brand of car and something going very going after a few years, costing me considerably. On the flip side I know many people who have a cheaper brand of car that have given them fantastic service and cost them very little.
     
  15. TechGod macrumors 68040

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    #15
    Fair enough. I can't stand Windows and my laptop is running amazingly so I personally will stay loyal for now.
     
  16. SD-B macrumors 6502

    SD-B

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    Apr 1, 2009
    #16
    I too would have been angry and agree that the poster was dealt a bad blow with a machine that should have been recalled.

    Interestingly enough I have a friend that has had 2 brain tumours and other illnesses to this date and although she is alive, she has suffered.
    She has also learned how to use it to gain sympathy when needed which I can't fault her for having done.

    But every time there is something wrong with her machine they replace it.

    She's had 2 macbook pros replaced in a row. Both machines had faults and one was 2 days before her apple warranty expired and a second, a few weeks afterwards.

    No problem, they just keep handing her new ones.

    Last year she jumped into a pool for 30 minutes before she realized she had her new iPhone in her pocket.
    Not a problem. She was given a brand new one the next day.

    I am thrilled for her that she beat her illnesses and if she uses it to get what she needs that is her prerogative but Apple employees shouldn't be judging situations personally and deciding who they like or have more empathy for, therefore who gets treated better than the others is not a choice they should be making as i have seen them do.

    Unfortunately life is such that although this might not seem fair that Apple can treat one person so well and others not so for I personally feel this poster should have been taken better care than he was judging by what he's saying...
     
  17. Intelligent macrumors 6502a

    Intelligent

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    #17
    "Learned your lesson" Let me tell you, you have just been unlucky. Me and my family has had tons of macs and just one has broke. We have another one thats broken, but if the same thing happened to almost any computer it would brake. Someone sat on the screen when it was open. I sometimes go down to my basement and boot up my 2001 iBooks for fun, all in working condition although outdated specs. I have never had a non-apple computer myself, but my friend has a bunch of old Windows PCs at home and only like 3/10 of them work. For me my macs work all expect one.
     
  18. leman macrumors 604

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #18
    I'll make it short ;)

    • Every laptop is disposable
    • The price of the laptop does not have much to do with how long it will last, it has something to do with what features the laptop has to offer
    • If your laptop fails, there is the warranty. Do not expect any laptop to live much longer over the standard 3 years
    • You cannot get a Windows laptop of comparable quality and features for half the price because they simply do not exist. The comparable Windows laptops also cost similar amount of money

    Especially if you are a professional, you need to have a good idea and a plan about the hardware you are using. Do you need a fast machine? Do you need a mobile machine? Do you need a well-built and convenient machine? Answering all these questions will help you to pick the right tool for the job. If you blow $4000 on a laptop that you don't need and then complain that maintaining it is too expensive — well, that is your fault for picking the wrong tool in the first place.
    Not to mention that you can't get a $700 laptop which would be compatible to the higher-end MBP — this is simply not possible. If you don't need such an expensive machine in the first place, then maybe you should have got a MacBook Air for 1/3 of the price?

    In addition, I think it is quite irresponsible to expect a failure-free operation of any electronic device, especially if it is mission-critical one. I am managing a department of over 40 people and we have used OS X on our server (and most of our clients) for the last few years with great success. If an employee laptop fails (something which is normal and has to be expected), I can take their recent time machine backup from the server, copy it to the 'emergency' Macbook Air (we keep two especially for that purpose). This takes about half an hour max. And the employee can use the Air while their laptop is being repaired (which with Apple usually takes 1-2 days). I have much more trouble with a failing Windows laptop , because there is simply no convenient infrastructure to deal with that.
     
  19. AirThis macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 6, 2012
    #19
    I suggest that you purchase a 13" or an MBA. As you probably already know, when you buy a Windows machine, you're not spending 700 dollars. This is all about TCO and productivity...

    I disagree with the jist of this thread, but perhaps it's because I'm independently employed and I bill my time. Given that I bill things on a "per service" basis, any wasted time comes out of my own pocket. The last Windows notebook I owned cost 1200 Euros, but the TCO exceeded 4500 Euros. This price includes lost time for hardware replacements (under warranty), arguments with Dell and Microsoft about the validity of the Windows licence provided to me (stated as being "not original" but shipped with the machine), 2 weeks worth of lost work due to backups that would only partially restore after a hard disk crash, and "driver fiddling" which forced me to reinstall Windows 4 times because of a simple USB TV tuner (system restore was utterly useless). I also had to spend 550 Euros for Premiere because MovieMaker kept crashing repeatedly and other Windows movie editors sucked. Yet my video editing requirements were very simple: to make short demo movies for a corporate intranet. Those 4500 Euros don't include lost productivity due to the POS tools that are provided with Windows, thereby forcing you to download tons of crapperware, which in turn eventually makes your system unusable. In all, I reinstalled Windows over 12 times during a period of 3 years. So if I had factored in all the time lost the TCO would have been even higher.

    To make a long story short, my current rmbp is dirt cheap. The advertised price is the effective price. I've had ZERO downtime and I've only installed a handful of add ons, none of which interfere with system operation. From my point of view, Windows is too expensive to run and just isn't worth the trouble. I'd rather spare my time and money for more intelligent things. In the end, it's a lifestyle choice. Some people think that fiddling with the Windows registry for hours at end is a fun hobby, but I'm working freelance and I receive no monetary compensation whatsoever for time wasted on technical problems. I need to get as close as I can to being 100% productive, and Windows simply doesn't allow me to do that. Conclusion: I'd spend the 2300 Euros again without any hesitation.
     
  20. klinic thread starter macrumors member

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    Apr 7, 2011
    #20
    The point isn't that the $700 laptop would fulfill my needs, it wouldn't. But it's lasted longer with more punishing use and is now having to fulfill my needs.

    In Australia, by law, a product can be expected to last longer when it is advertised or implied to be of higher quality and is of a higher price than the competition. This should be the case for anything. And, in Australia, it is expected to be. I have contacted the relevant authorities to be advised about what exactly my rights are, I am not a lawyer and do need to have these things explained to me. I'm not saying 'OMG I'M SUING APPLE!' I'm not, and I'd be an idiot to try. I just want to make sure I'm being treated fairly. I will report back with what the results are, positive or negative on my part.

    When I purchased my laptop, I know there were cheaper machines with better specs. The understanding was that the quality of the machine, specs aside, would be better in an Apple product. Maybe prices are different in other parts of the world and maybe things have now changed. That's fairly irrelevant to me now.

    I have no idea what you people are going on about. I DO expect an extremely expensive laptop to have adequate cooling, higher build quality and components and survive longer than a $700 budget laptop. It's not an apples to apples comparison, I'm just vaguely making my point and venting my angst. I know the $700 notebook will not fulfill my editing needs. But it shouldn't be more sturdy than a $4000 machine. If the netbook hasn't been adequately tested, eh, I got what I paid for. I haven't gotten everything I paid for with the MBP.

    These 2011 MacBook Pros failing is a documented issue, they were not adequately tested and were not produced to a standard befitting their price tag. I believe Apple should issue a recall, and I believe they probably will. Until then, I'm pretty miffed and am temporarily holding off on future purchases of Apple products.

    3 years is not an acceptable lifespan for a product such as this. Maybe in America it is, but in Australia and many parts of Europe, this is not the case. For my part, this is the first notebook I, or any of my family have experienced within 4 years of purchase. We have old Pentium 4 machines that are still kicking apart from being achingly slow. A few problems is fine, it's to be expected. But my whole machine has been bricked because of a manufacturing fault, and so have a lot of other peoples.
     
  21. nando87, Jun 29, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014

    nando87 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I will answer you since I've bought my first mac this week, a macbook pro, and this is my opinion:

    This device's hardware is very pleasant to use, the apparent quality and materials are awesome, and the screen (retina in my case) and battery life are really good. I don't know if it's durable or not because mine only has 5 days. I expect it to last at least 5 years, if it doesn't, I won't buy an apple computer again.

    That being said, it's an affordable luxury item more than a workhorse, since it's quite expensive, not upgradable, lacks connectivity (rj45) and lots of its internals are proprietary, and as we know most of the industries work on microsoft software. OS X is quite a fisher-price os. I keep a 2005 asus laptop somewhere at home and it can be used in emergency cases since it's not subject to obligatory software obsolescence, f.e, and it can be repaired easily.

    A macbook is much more a whim than a need or something more useful than any other pc.
     
  22. Nabooly macrumors 6502a

    Nabooly

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    Aug 28, 2007
    #22
    OP, have you tried contacting Apple? Give them a call and explain your situation clearly. It's worth a shot, as you have nothing to lose. Explain to them your problem (be calm and courteous) and ask them if there is anything that they can do for you. My MBP was out of warranty and Apple replaced my whole screen & top casing.
     
  23. Meister, Jun 29, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    Oct 10, 2013
    #23
    If you buy a 4000,- electronical device, you also buy insurance.

    Especially for devices you carry around all the time and may drop, like a dslr or laptop.

    If you dont get insurance and warranty is out or you drop it or spill liquid, you are screwed.

    Like leman mentioned, a more expensive computer doesnt last longer.
    Thats why buying upgrades for the whole future proofing mambo jumbo is nonsense.

    ... the "lacks connectivity" argument is just stupid. How about a parallel port? Floppy drive? No VGA either :eek:
    Just buy an adapter!

    Devices are all becoming less upgradable in 2014. Its sad, but the price we pay for portability.


    i feel you! And I hope you get a replacement by :apple:.
    Sue the ****ers if necessary!
     
  24. Meister, Jun 29, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

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  25. leman macrumors 604

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #25
    I understand your point, but this is simply not what current technology allows. Everybody cooks with the same ingredients here. I'd say its a 50/50 chance that a computer will pass the 5 year age. You can get more lucky and less lucky. And regarding your last paragraph: we have a 13 years old iMac G3 in our basement, which still works perfectly. Same for a range of MBPs from 2007 to 2014. Still — anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. In any case, your conclusion of 'I will not buy Apple again' is in best case misjudged — I ensure you that an early death can happen to any computer from ay manufacturer out there. You just got unlucky. We simply do not have the technical ability to ensure perfect quality control.

    Would you be so kind as to pointing us to reliable statistics that back up your claims?
     

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