It feels like youre pushing Apple marketing
It was a PR event the P is for public, no one is questioning the man’s personal life, they are responding to the PR, and that’s fair and to be expected
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Did Tim Cook tell the truth about what Vision Pro can do? (video clip)
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It feels like youre pushing Apple marketing
It was a PR event the P is for public, no one is questioning the man’s personal life, they are responding to the PR, and that’s fair and to be expected
PR event to preempt uncontrolled disemination (or at least reduce it) of what the device is... They need to complete the software for the device and that means senior engineers taking it home, some trusted 3rd party developers getting access to it offsite, and thousands of more Apple software engineers working on the software for it (with device in hand). 3rd party developers having access to SDK simulator for Vision Pro. You do realize that there are millions of developers that are 'the public' as well. No introduction, means all the information diseminated between now and a 2024 event would be completely uncontrollable... and that is something Apple hates more than anything (a bit of hyperbole - but pretty close to reality).
I'm not pushing anyone's marketing -- I'm doing my part to prevent normalization of toxic behavior on MR.
I'm really puzzled though, do you really believe that insinuating that Tim Cook is a liar is somehow not an attack on his person? And that insinuating that Tim Cook (or anyone else) is a liar without proof is "fair and to be expected" behavior? 🤔
The amount of posters that are willing to accept dishonesty is quite striking. Tim Cook made a statement that was untrue. There is nothing unreasonable, pedantic, overly literal, etc. in noticing that someone said something untrue. If the Vision Pro is as great as Apple thinks it is, there is no reason to say untrue things about it.
Listen, Apple is the biggest (“legal”) tax cheat in the world.
We can criticize the company, but the basis of this thread is clearly not a good faith assertion.
Following the law, whether one likes the law or not, is not “cheating.”
The basis of this thread is a good faith assertion. Tim Cook said something untrue. Cook made the statement and there is nothing unreasonable, pedantic, too literal, bad faith, etc. about noticing and commenting on an untrue statement. What’s happening is posters are frustrated that their attempts to gaslight aren’t working.
Ok, as a thought exercise, let's put OPs pedantic post on the virtues of absolute precision of language to a pedantry test itself and see what we find:
Nope, he said "It'll do anything your Mac or iPhone can do and more"
Your quote on which this whole thread rests is untruthful.
No he isn't. He's talking on YouTube. At the time he was talking in the lobby of Apple Park to a morning show host, and they chose to cut up what he said and broadcast it at a later time. ABC broadcast parts of his interview on television at onetime, but that's not where he's talking now. By the standards of this thread, every word must be precise or it's a lie.
Your statement that he's talking on television is untruthful.
He only said it once and your phrasing here makes it appear as though he said it more than once. It's hard to know what your intended use of "Again" is here just as it might be hard for everyone to agree on what can/will means in the original quote, so I'll choose the one that comes first to my mind and consider this statement untruthful.
Here you're specifically saying that he did not way "will", but "it'll" is a contraction of "it will" so this is not only sloppy misquoting but is a direct contradiction of the factual record and is untruthful.
The host, in her anchor desk discussion, says she used AVP and used other devices and that AVP "is a computer" and is "different than what people are thinking about".
So by the hosts experience and interpretation, not recitation of what she'd been told, what Cook said is, in fact, truthful.
I just watched this video a couple times to make sure I didn't miss something, and can confidently report that, no, he did not tell us or anyone that. Your statement is untruthful.
He said "it's a platform" and he can't wait to "unleash it on developers" so they can create those apps. So no, he didn't say this. Your statement is untruthful.
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You're moving the goal posts and dropping red herrings, hoping to gaslight people with irrelevant comments and videos. By your own admission, Tim Cook said, "It'll do anything your Mac or iPhone can do and more." What else he said, unless he were to say he misspoke or wanted to be more precise, is completely irrelevant. Cook certainly said true things - "It's a platform," Apple will, "unleash it on developers," etc. Those all sound great but have absolutely no effect on the fact that he said something untrue. Why he made an untrue statement is certainly something people can reasonably disagree about, but again, the reason has absolutely no bearing on the truthfulness of a statement.
The point you're making over and over is that context is irrelevant-- all that matters is one word somewhere that you deem imprecise enough to be able to call it untrue undermines the entire message. From there the effort seems to be to convince people who can understand language just fine to reinterpret the word the way you want them to.
All those irrelevant things you're saying about goalposts and herring and gaslights sound great but have absolutely no effect on the fact that OP said things that were untrue.
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You've changed the goal posts once again with another red herring, hoping to gaslight. Let's try this a different way. Tim Cook said something untrue. How does someone else saying something untrue have any effect on what Tim Cook said? Answer: it doesn't and I think you know that. The discussion the OP started had to do with the untrue statement from Tim Cook. What exactly is the problem with discussing that on a forum dedicated to Apple?
Toxic behavior? Lol really?
Tim Cook isn’t speaking as a private individual, he’s speaking as a company man
You ever work sales? There is a reason good salesmen don’t take what customers say personal, there work and there personal.
I also don’t think Tim Cook cares what anyone says about him, he cares about the stock and sales, and the reaction to this PR thing should be addressed by the company, bud light is a good example, read the room and put out products your customer demographic want, or you’re going to get red ink
I think based on the info given and photos given it’s a fair thing for people to think he’s overstating what the ski goggles will do, and they have a history of that, like what someone said about the iPhone running OSX, I still like Apple, had iPhones since the 3, but between the price point and presentations I’m not sure this thing is going to go the way Apple wants, and Apple should be reading these forums and the room and trying to salvage this investment
You're selectively quoting me, hoping to gaslight. The discussion OP started was based on a series of untrue assertions about what Tim Cook supposedly, but did not actually, say. What exactly is the problem with discussing that in the forum thread they started?
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You’re continuing to move the goal posts with red herrings, hoping to gaslight. The OP started the post with Tim Cook’s direct quote, which you admitted Cook made. What Tim Cook said was untrue. Here are three questions to help clarify:
1. How does the veracity, or lack thereof, of someone’s else’s statement change the veracity, or lack thereof, of Tim Cook’s statement?
2. Why is it such a problem if Tim Cook said something untrue?
3. What is the problem with acknowledging the difference between the veracity, or lack thereof, of a statement, and the reason for the veracity, or lack thereof?
You've begun serving word soup hoping to gaslight. What does any of that have to do with the thought experiment I started: what should we make of a thread meant to discuss one word asserted to be untrue when the thread itself is founded on a sequence of untrue statements, including the misquotation of that specific word?
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Nope, your attempt to move the goalposts with a red herring won’t work. Your thought experiment is irrelevant to the initial point of the OP - Tim Cook’s untrue statement.
What’s also unfortunate is that you’re commenting in such bad faith that you can’t recognize when I’m agreeing with you. Tim Cook made an untrue statement, which is what the OP first asked about. Just because the OP made subsequent untrue statements doesn’t somehow make Tim Cook’s statement true. I, and many others, are not unreasonable for wanting others to be honest, including Tim Cook. Like I said before, it’s particularly strange because if Vision Pro is a great as Apple says it is (and I have no reason to doubt Apple), there is no reason to make such patently untrue statements. Its great features stand on their own.
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A series of untrue statements is not good faith.
I have to ask another question: how on earth might one move a goalpost with a fish of any color?
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Yes, really. Twisting someone’s words to imply something they never said, being overly literal to support your own viewpoint, not granting someone the grace to be imprecise when speaking, and encouraging others to do any of the foregoing are examples of toxic and uncivil behavior. I’m not suggesting that you did any of these, but if you follow the chain of this thread you will see that pattern beginning with the original post. This is not good and this chain is one of the most egregious “bad spirit” chains I’ve seen on MR. I want to believe that we’re better than this.
I agree that Tim Cook has a well-developed sense of self and is not defined by what others think of him, but I think he would be troubled if he was called a liar — because he is a decent, honest person. And, yes, I’ve done business development professionally; but the behavior we’re talking about has nothing to do with salespeople taking what customers say personally. This is about honest communications and the impact of each of our actions on the health of the MR community.
You are right that what was presented during the VisionPro preview was not the full story. However, they only had 1 hour so I’m certain that they have a lot more in their labs than they displayed during the reveal. And I personally believe that Tim Cook’s statement reflected the design intent and roadmap for VisionPro. Does this mean that a VisionPro will eliminate the need for an iPhone or Mac? It depends on what you do with your iPhone and Mac — for some it might be yes, for others no. You get to decide if you act with grace and grant this man a bit of goodwill or attack his character because of a bit of justifiable ambiguity.
Finally, Apple is a smart company. They are smart because they hire smart, highly skilled people, then train, empower and pay them to imagine and deliver innovative solutions that the rest of us can only dream and speculate about. One of the worst things Apple could do is to read MR forums and subordinate their informed, professional judgment to half-baked ideas cooked up by us. 🙏🏽
And here we go again with another bad faith reply. Your red herring moved the goal posts by continuing to talk about something that is not relevant and insisting people answer your irrelevant questions.
Like I said, your comments are in such bad faith that you refuse to acknowledge that I agree with you. But, agreeing about the OP making untrue statements doesn’t have any effect on Tim Cook’s untrue statement, and I think you know that, which is why you keep making bad faith replies.
So, I ask again, if the Vision Pro is as great as Apple says it is, what is the point of Tim Cook saying something patently untrue about it? Why not just continue to talk about the actual great features?
I'm curious. You keep repeating that Tim Cook said something that is "patently untrue" about VisionPro. Can you state what that "patently untrue" statement is and the facts that justify that accusation of untruthfulness?
1. I think Analog Kid was trying to point out that OP was holding Tim Cook to a standard that they themself didn't quite follow. They complained that Tim Cook said something that was not literally true, while misquoting Cook (by one word, yes, but since OP insists on being literal, Analog Kid is insisting on being as literal) and attributing to Cook statements he didn't actually make (VP can/should/will replace Mac/iPad).
2. I don't agree that Tim Cook's statement is "patently untrue." As I've said before, his statement can be interpreted to mean VP is a general purpose computer, and that's how the reporter who interviewed him appears to have understood his description of the VP. Could he have been more precise? Sure, but that would have complicated and distracted from the message he was trying to convey. I don't think this is a big deal. People aren't going to rush out and buy VP just on this one statement. As we get closer to release, Apple will reveal more details about VP's specific capabilities, and people will make decisions based on that.
Sure! Tim Cook said, “It can do anything your Mac or iPhone can do.” The Vision Pro has no ports, so you can’t connect any peripheral to it, like you can on a Mac. The Vision Pro can’t make independent cellular calls or use Satellite SOS, like you can on an iPhone.
So, what Tim Cook said was patently untrue. I grant that there are multiple reasons he could have said this, from intentionally being deceptive to just over-hyping something when he’s caught-up in the moment. But, that doesn’t change the fact that what he said was untrue, nor does it change the fact that it isn’t unreasonable to want people to be honest.
From everything I’ve seen, the Vision Pro looks to have great features. I think Apple should let those great features stand on their own. Saying untrue things detracts from that.
It is actually hillarious that a statement which is accusing someone of lying because it is not 100% true in generality, is in fact not 100% true... and seems to be a bit upset we don't hold Tim Cook to such a high standard is being held to a high standard. I think this is a good point in time to wrap up this sillyness and get back to more sane discussions.
If he was being intentionally deceptive, it makes sense to wish people would be more honest. But if he just over-hyped from being caught up in the moment, then wishing he would be more honest feels to me like a weird reaction.
I mean, he probably doesn't remember the exact wording he used, but here we are devoting pages of forum discussion on what was most likely a casual, off-the-cuff remark. As I said before, I don't think it's a big deal, and I don't understand why you make such a fuss over this.
@goonie4life9 @Analog Kid at... I guess everyone else reading the last few pages.
It feels like we're getting lost in the weeds on this. Yes, the exact words are "...it'll do anything that your Mac or iPhone can do and more" however the overall sentiment @goonie4life9 and @Piggie is quoting “It can do anything your Mac or iPhone can do.” remains intact even if both versions carry different connotations.
It would seem that goonie4life9 is interpreting the statement to effectively say all the software and workflows on your Mac along with all the API calls and hardware functionality on your iPhone will run and be available on Vision Pro... which I highly doubt is what Tim was trying to convey.
Apple speaks in generalities. The statement "...it'll do anything that your Mac or iPhone can do and more" could be interpreted as the tasks you accomplish on your Mac and iPhone can also be accomplished on Vision Pro, which is to say; You want to browse the web? Here's a web browser. You want to play music? Here's a music playing app. You want to play a game? Here's Apple Arcade. Etc.
It feels like we're getting lost in the weeds on this. Yes, the exact words are "...it'll do anything that your Mac or iPhone can do and more" however the overall sentiment @goonie4life9 and @Piggie is quoting “It can do anything your Mac or iPhone can do.” remains intact even if both versions carry different connotations.
It would seem that goonie4life9 is interpreting the statement to effectively say all the software and workflows on your Mac along with all the API calls and hardware functionality on your iPhone will run and be available on Vision Pro... which I highly doubt is what Tim was trying to convey.
Apple speaks in generalities. The statement "...it'll do anything that your Mac or iPhone can do and more" could be interpreted as the tasks you accomplish on your Mac and iPhone can also be accomplished on Vision Pro, which is to say; You want to browse the web? Here's a web browser. You want to play music? Here's a music playing app. You want to play a game? Here's Apple Arcade. Etc.