DIFFERENCES 2009 MP vs. 2010 MP

[brock2621]

I was wanting to post the differences between the two for myself and others so that we can all easily compare and evaluate performance vs. price.

 

[Hellhammer]

2010 Mac Pro can use the new Gulftown and Westmere CPUs (Xeon 36xx and 56xx) and supports 1333MHz DDR3. It comes with better GPU (5770 vs GT 120) and AirPort card. Those are the main differences I can come up with. It may be possible to flash the EFI from 2010 Mac Pro to 2009 Mac Pro and gain the possibility of using the new CPUs in 2009 Mac Pro

 

[brock2621]

Does the EFI contain information regarding the ram? If you flash it, will it try to be looking for 1333 ram? Also, the video card should be able to be purchased separately and installed into a 2009 MP correct?

Have any past generations of Mac Pros been successfully flashed to work with future processors?

 

[Cocoia]

Does the EFI contain information regarding the ram? If you flash it, will it try to be looking for 1333 ram? Also, the video card should be able to be purchased separately and installed into a 2009 MP correct?

Have any past generations of Mac Pros been successfully flashed to work with future processors?

No clue on EFI, but the most important part of the EFI firmware will be stepping. Since the newer Xeons have different stepping they're incompatible with the current motherboard.

Nobody knows if Apple will release graphics upgrade kits again. Let's hope so. I don't believe previous Mac Pros have ever been reflashed, but that's also because there weresocket / architecture changes (going from the 3,1 (Intel 5400 -> X58 / QuickPath).

 

[Hellhammer]

Does the EFI contain information regarding the ram? If you flash it, will it try to be looking for 1333 ram? Also, the video card should be able to be purchased separately and installed into a 2009 MP correct?

Have any past generations of Mac Pros been successfully flashed to work with future processors?

Yeah, it will likely enable 1333MHz RAM as well but you can still use 1066MHz if you like to. Apple has offered GPUs in the past so likely yes.

 

[iRobertM]

I thought the 2010 MP comes with a bigger power supply?

 

[brock2621]

I thought the 2010 MP comes with a bigger power supply?

Likely, although the new processors are 32nm I believe which would require less power?

 

[Hellhammer]

Likely, although the new processors are 32nm I believe which would require less power?

They require the same. 130W for SP configs, 80Wx2 in 8-core and 95Wx2 in 12-core. AFAIK the PSU is still the same, 1000W

 

[brock2621]

So if i'm understanding this correctly... it's literally almost the exact same machine? I wonder why it took them so long to release it? Maybe just waiting on the processors?

So the 2009 & 2010 have only an EFI modification (most likely encrypted?) that needs to be flashed for all 2009 to literally be exactly 2010's? If EFI's ARE flashed... 2009 MP just retained 100% of their value.

 

[peskaa]

So if i'm understanding this correctly... it's literally almost the exact same machine? I wonder why it took them so long to release it? Maybe just waiting on the processors?

So the 2009 & 2010 have only an EFI modification (most likely encrypted?) that needs to be flashed for all 2009 to literally be exactly 2010's? If EFI's ARE flashed... 2009 MP just retained 100% of their value.

Yes, it is literally the same machine but with a change to EFI to allow the new CPUs etc. Makes me feel good about my Quad from early this year though.

 

[strausd]

So if i'm understanding this correctly... it's literally almost the exact same machine? I wonder why it took them so long to release it? Maybe just waiting on the processors?

Maybe the GPUs too? But it definitely shouldn't have taken them this long. The new ones have the new CPUs, new GPUs, faster RAM, built in wifi, larger stock HD, and for what its worth comes with a magic mouse 🙂

Also, I don't think the prices are much different. I went on Apples site and built a "comparable" machine. It is a 2009 8-core 2.66 GHz with a 1TB HD, 4870 (closest thing to a 5770), Magic Mouse, and a wifi card. All of this cost $5,069.

Now a 2010 12-core Mac Pro. Now a base 12-core MP at 2.66 GHz with a 1TB HD, 5770 (barely better than 4870, but still better), Magic Mouse, and built in wifi. All of this is $4,999. The differences between these is that one is 8-core/16 threads and the other is 12-core/24 threads. The one with more cores and barely better GPU (can hook up more displays too) is cheaper than the one with less cores!

So in a way, Apple lowered the price on this and gave it more performance for the money.

Also, does anyone know when we will be able to order the 2010 MPs?

 

[peskaa]

Maybe the GPUs too? But it definitely shouldn't have taken them this long. The new ones have the new CPUs, new GPUs, faster RAM, built in wifi, larger stock HD, and for what its worth comes with a magic mouse 🙂

So in a way, Apple lowered the price on this and gave it more performance for the money.

Also, does anyone know when we will be able to order the 2010 MPs?

The 5 series GPUs have been out since late 2009, early 2010. So no, they weren't waiting on GPUs.

Secondly, Apple haven't "lowered" the price, they've simply been charging obscene prices for obsolete hardware. The fact that a new system will be faster than the old for the same price is simply how computing works.

As for ordering, August.

 

[strausd]

The 5 series GPUs have been out since late 2009, early 2010. So no, they weren't waiting on GPUs.

Secondly, Apple haven't "lowered" the price, they've simply been charging obscene prices for obsolete hardware. The fact that a new system will be faster than the old for the same price is simply how computing works.

As for ordering, August.

Does the pc version of the 5770 and 5870 have two MDP and a dvi? If not, maybe they needed some time to do that? We all know it takes Apple forever to get new GPUs, so no surprise there.

And I'm pretty sure 4999 is less that 5069, so yes, they did lower the price. Sure, that price difference is extremely minimal, but also consider you are getting 8 more virtual cores for $70 less.

Well I know august, I was wondering if anyone had a specific date. I've heard august 9th from someone on here but wasn't sure if that was true.

 

[Roman23]

I can answer this one.. in full,.

You are asking for the differences? Really, there are three and only three differences.. the good news is that the 2010 is a 2009 mac pro EXCEPT that Apple took the firmware and flashed it to make it support westmere.. Whether the lower end quad-cores 2.8/3.2 support westmere is still in the air. but the logic board is the same part number.. the processor tray is the exact same part number(see the slots in the quad?? - still 4!)..

So, really the following is the same:

2009 Logic board
2009 Processor tray
the whole set up, fans, etc.. case.

What has changed:

EFI Firmware to support westmere and 1333 mhz memory(this should have been fixed in the 09's from the get go!)
\New juicy video cards.. 5870 and 5770, personally, I'd get the 5870 and call it a day.

Thats it..
No more, no less.. there is your 2010 mac pro in its glory.. you pay ROYALLY for the efi firmware of 2499(if the two low end quad nehalems are supported by B1), 3499 for the 8-core 2.4 which is a joke compared to the 09 original 8-cores.. and the big daddy of all - 12-core at 4999.99 or 5 grand + stratosphere.

Thats it.

I was wanting to post the differences between the two for myself and others so that we can all easily compare and evaluate performance vs. price.

 

[Roman23]

Power supply

Is the same.. 980w.

Everything is 2009 here.. except for the firmware, and video cards.

I was wanting to post the differences between the two for myself and others so that we can all easily compare and evaluate performance vs. price.

I thought the 2010 MP comes with a bigger power supply?

 

[Hellhammer]

but the logic board is the same part number.. the processor tray is the exact same part number(see the slots in the quad?? - still 4!)...

Can I have the part numbers, please. You can't know this stuff yet as 2010 Mac Pro isn't available yet. It's possible and even likely that they are the same but don't say that the part number is a match unless you can prove that

 

[Roman23]

New question.. the two lower quad cores.

I have currently a 3.33 w3580 in what was my 2.66 mac pro.. question, is it likely that the lower quads using 2.8 and 3.2(w3530 and w3565) will support B1 STEPPING?? this is important as I just got a one time exception from apple to RMA my current mac pro and goto the "2010" (or 2009 /w westmere support), but only if the lower quads support B1..

Does anyone know if they will have the firmware to run B1 in the future? I am not talking about the 6-core machine.. but the two lower quad-singles in the line up.

Any answer to this would be greatly appreciated as I have very little time to make a decision.. they gave me until august 9th(august 9th btw is the ACTUAL date when the news ones will be online for order, in case anyone wants to know.), and if you don't believe me I will glady get a customer care agent on the phone with you and they will tell you..

They told me last night and an apple tech at tech support also told me AUGUST 9TH.

The 5 series GPUs have been out since late 2009, early 2010. So no, they weren't waiting on GPUs.

Secondly, Apple haven't "lowered" the price, they've simply been charging obscene prices for obsolete hardware. The fact that a new system will be faster than the old for the same price is simply how computing works.

As for ordering, August.

 

[Roman23]

I tell you..

its the same boards! But, here is the part number..

Processor board(dual): 661-4998
Backpane main logic board: 661-4996 - for all dual and single-quad
Quad-core processor board: 661-4999

Why would apple have new part numbers for these if the 2010 uses 2009 parts?? Even the Apple technician told me that Apple didn't revise the logic board or processor tray and is using the same parts.. just the firmware was flashed and he agreed that that was the case...

But I have listed the part numbers from you.. my source was the 2009 pull apart service guide that I got.

Can I have the part numbers, please. You can't know this stuff yet as 2010 Mac Pro isn't available yet. It's possible and even likely that they are the same but don't say that the part number is a match unless you can prove that

 

[Hellhammer]

its the same boards! But, here is the part number..

Processor board(dual): 661-4998
Backpane main logic board: 661-4996 - for all dual and single-quad
Quad-core processor board: 661-4999

Why would apple have new part numbers for these if the 2010 uses 2009 parts?? Even the Apple technician told me that Apple didn't revise the logic board or processor tray and is using the same parts.. just the firmware was flashed and he agreed that that was the case...

But I have listed the part numbers from you.. my source was the 2009 pull apart service guide that I got.

Apple techs have been proven to know nothing about these kinds of things. It's unlikely that he has even seen the new one let alone know the part numbers. Not that it makes any difference but it's misleading if you state your guesses as facts. There is a great chance that the parts are exactly the same but lets wait for some proofs before saying so, okay?

 

[Roman23]

Would you like the service guide??

I have it if you want it.. so you can see I am not lying.. I wouldn't make anything like this up.

Can I have the part numbers, please. You can't know this stuff yet as 2010 Mac Pro isn't available yet. It's possible and even likely that they are the same but don't say that the part number is a match unless you can prove that

Apple techs have been proven to know nothing about these kinds of things. It's unlikely that he has even seen the new one let alone know the part numbers. Not that it makes any difference but it's misleading if you state your guesses as facts.

 

[Hellhammer]

I have it if you want it.. so you can see I am not lying.. I wouldn't make anything like this up.

Yeah, but it's the 2009 service guide. I believe you that those numbers are correct but there is no way you could know that those are the same for 2010 model. Anyway, as there isn't any major difference we shouldn't argue about this.

 

[thermodynamic]

5870 and 5770, personally, I'd get the 5870 and call it a day.
.

Agreed, re: 5870. The 5770 is virtually no faster than the 4870... according to a number of benchmark tests I've read. 🙁

 

[strausd]

Agreed, re: 5870. The 5770 is virtually no faster than the 4870... according to a number of benchmark tests I've read. 🙁

i saw some benchmarks and it beat it out in most of them, but only by a little bit. But its good that the 5770 can get you 3 displays instead of 2, and it uses less power.

 

[gaspra]

Yeah, but it's the 2009 service guide. I believe you that those numbers are correct but there is no way you could know that those are the same for 2010 model. Anyway, as there isn't any major difference we shouldn't argue about this.

Think about how the companies making profit in computer industry. The next gen platform will be Sandy Bridge and it's not too far from being implemented. As Apple always use propriety logic boards, it makes no sense to redesign the old one for no apparent reasons. Lenovo thinkstation still uses the 09 motherboards but with an updated bios to support westmere B1 stepping.

 

[wonderspark]

Would you like the service guide?? I have it if you want it.. so you can see I am not lying.. I wouldn't make anything like this up.

You are known to be completely wrong about things. Here are other examples:

ITS NOT COMING!! I called my own Apple store and yes under apple's website it also said: Unavailable there, but called and confirmed - they have plenty of 2009's, mostly quad-core.. and they further told me that that is NOT an indication of a new model coming out.. so there you have it.

God these things are making me sick.

My friend who works at my local store ISN'T lying.. I showed him these threads and he told me its bull... complete bull and not to worry about it though really why should I? Why do I need to care? Not like I am using my mac pro for industry related work, or using it to make a living with it.. though I could run an ebay store with it.. but, in either case.. this is not my worry.. its your worry since you all need this speed of 2 extra cores which there is still very few precious software that can take advantage of 12 cores let alone 6.. or even 4 for that matter..

When the time comes that all software will need 4 or more cores, then I will consider.. but for now.. MS Office, gaming, etc.. uses maybe if I am lucky 2 cores at best..

The following are known to work with 8 or more cores:

Video rendering software(all apple titles) - completly useless to me.
Audio rendering and creation software(all apple titles) - again, useless to me as I am not a song writer or producer of audio.

Photo related software such as Adobe CS5, etc... - While I do make movies on my computer and have photo albums, the basics are enough for me as I don't need these expensive software packages.

SO there you have it.. not all of us are going to benefit from 8 cores or more though. I know I won't. Its a nice upgrade though, but the B1 stepping isn't on the 2009 at least not yet until someone develops an efi flash utility to flash the firmware of the 2010 over to the 2009.

End of thread.

I think it's admirable that you seek and desire great knowledge, but you don't do anyone a service by posting information that you do not possess. I don't understand your burning desire to be right about things that you don't know. If we were gambling on your information, we'd all be poor.