DIFFERENCES 2009 MP vs. 2010 MP

[Roman23]

Why would Apple waste the money to make the same parts but with different part numbers?? doesn't make sense at all. Hence, why Apple used the 2009 to create the 2010 by doing what we all needed for our systems: the firmware flash.

Having to re-build the existing parts and having two sets of the same parts one set for the 2010 and the other set for the 2009 - isn't cost effective and as a result would wind up apple spending money when it doesn't have to..

Now, if it were sandy bridge? Then yes.. I can see the difference already as a new logic board and architecture.. but since we are taking about the same 2009 machine.. the only real thing that separates this from the 09 is the EFI FIRMWARE... A simple 4MB file is responsible for why we have to pay ROYALLY to get this speed bump..

As I said, the only way I would consider this is if and ONLY IF THE B1 stepping is present on the lower quad-cores, using w3530 and w3565.. if not, then I will wait until the actual rom chip has been flashed or if Apple does decide to do a whole new set of product numbers for the "2010", then purchase the processor tray if it has the efi rom on it and just replace my current one with the new one.. simple plug and play.. as the backpane is the same part..

Again, I don't really see this happening.. TWO SAME identical parts, but one for 2010 and 2009?? doesn't make sense..

Yeah, but it's the 2009 service guide. I believe you that those numbers are correct but there is no way you could know that those are the same for 2010 model. Anyway, as there isn't any major difference we shouldn't argue about this.

Do you want the service guide? I can send it to you.. And we have already established the fact that the 2010 is the 2009 just with the firmware update and new gpus..

But, I am willing to offer you the service manual if you want it..

Yeah, but it's the 2009 service guide. I believe you that those numbers are correct but there is no way you could know that those are the same for 2010 model. Anyway, as there isn't any major difference we shouldn't argue about this.

You are known to be completely wrong about things. Here are other examples:



I think it's admirable that you seek and desire great knowledge, but you don't do anyone a service by posting information that you do not possess. I don't understand your burning desire to be right about things that you don't know. If we were gambling on your information, we'd all be poor.

Nano has been helping me with this..

You are known to be completely wrong about things. Here are other examples:



I think it's admirable that you seek and desire great knowledge, but you don't do anyone a service by posting information that you do not possess. I don't understand your burning desire to be right about things that you don't know. If we were gambling on your information, we'd all be poor.

 

[Hellhammer]

Think about how the companies making profit in computer industry. The next gen platform will be Sandy Bridge and it's not too far from being implemented. As Apple always use propriety logic boards, it makes no sense to redesign the old one for no apparent reasons. Lenovo thinkstation still uses the 09 motherboards but with an updated bios to support westmere B1 stepping.

As I said it's likely that they are the same but my point was not to state guesses as water-proof facts. Even a tiny change in one capacitor which makes it 0.001$ cheaper for Apple may be enough for new part name. Yes, it's likely the same but shall we wait for some actual FACTS and stop guessing?

Do you want the service guide? I can send it to you.. And we have already established the fact that the 2010 is the 2009 just with the firmware update and new gpus..

But, I am willing to offer you the service manual if you want it..

If you have the 2010 service guide, yes. If you don't, then you have nothing to prove that it's a fact. Nano doesn't have special access for 2010 Mac Pros AFAIK so even he doesn't know are the part numbers the same.

Can we stop this now? This is ridiculously fruitless guessing. Yes, they are very likely the same and if there are any changes, they are extremely minor and don't affect anything. The main things are the same. I couldn't care less is the part number 61923 or 61924 but please, don't state them as facts unless you really know it and can proof it. That's my point.

 

[wonderspark]

Do you want the service guide? I can send it to you.. And we have already established the fact that the 2010 is the 2009 just with the firmware update and new gpus..

But, I am willing to offer you the service manual if you want it..

I don't see what dropping Nano's name has to do with anything. Do you mean nanofrog? Are you saying that you got the 2010 part numbers from him?

Sure, I'd love to have a service guide for my system, if that's what you have. I have the 4,1 Quad 3.33 GHz Mac Pro.

I'd also like the service guide for the new 2010 (I suppose that would be the 5,1) six-core 3.33 GHz Mac Pro, if you have THAT one, too.

Are these docs you can simply email me?

 

[Roman23]

Hot mail won't

allow me to send them due to it being too large... I am thinking of dropping hotmail, but have used it for too long now.. do you have skype or aim?? I can use file transfer to send it that way..

And since the main backpane board and processor trays are the same.. the manual will also cover the same thing for the 2010.. just doesn't have the westmere stuff in it.

You are known to be completely wrong about things. Here are other examples:



I think it's admirable that you seek and desire great knowledge, but you don't do anyone a service by posting information that you do not possess. I don't understand your burning desire to be right about things that you don't know. If we were gambling on your information, we'd all be poor.

I don't see what dropping Nano's name has to do with anything. Do you mean nanofrog? Are you saying that you got the 2010 part numbers from him?

Sure, I'd love to have a service guide for my system, if that's what you have. I have the 4,1 Quad 3.33 GHz Mac Pro.

I'd also like the service guide for the new 2010 (I suppose that would be the 5,1) six-core 3.33 GHz Mac Pro, if you have THAT one, too.

Are these docs you can simply email me?

 

[TheStrudel]

Were all of the 09 Mac Pro's PCIe slots 2.0 slots? The lane configuration hasn't changed since the 08 Mac Pros, but I can't remember if the all of the PCIe slots were 2.0 slots on the 09 Mac Pro. They weren't on the 08.

If they weren't on the 09, that's a change, however marginal.

 

[wonderspark]

allow me to send them due to it being too large... I am thinking of dropping hotmail, but have used it for too long now.. do you have skype or aim?? I can use file transfer to send it that way..

And since the main backpane board and processor trays are the same.. the manual will also cover the same thing for the 2010.. just doesn't have the westmere stuff in it.

Let me see if I can open up an FTP transfer for you...

I don't have Skype or AIM.

 

[strausd]

Were all of the 09 Mac Pro's PCIe slots 2.0 slots? The lane configuration hasn't changed since the 08 Mac Pros, but I can't remember if the all of the PCIe slots were 2.0 slots on the 09 Mac Pro. They weren't on the 08.

If they weren't on the 09, that's a change, however marginal.

They were on 2009.

 

[Roman23]

yes.. the 09's have all PCIE 2.0 slots.. and the "2010" is the 2009 - same backpane, same processor tray.. only difference: efi firmware update.. thats it, oh plus the new video cards which I am sure most of us prefer those over the processors at least most.

So, to answer your question.. the westmere version of the 2009(yes, its a 2009) is the EXACT same thing as the original Nehalem 2009 in terms of the boards.. all are pcie 2.0 - the 2008 mac pro uses two pcie 2.0 slots and two 1.0 slots.. where as 2007,2006 use all 1.1 slots.

I hope I answered your question.

Were all of the 09 Mac Pro's PCIe slots 2.0 slots? The lane configuration hasn't changed since the 08 Mac Pros, but I can't remember if the all of the PCIe slots were 2.0 slots on the 09 Mac Pro. They weren't on the 08.

If they weren't on the 09, that's a change, however marginal.

are the same thing.. what differs between the two is the firmware.. video cards i guess count.. but eventually all of us will have those.. 5870 is worth the money over the 5770.. though I'd prefer the eyefinity.

Were all of the 09 Mac Pro's PCIe slots 2.0 slots? The lane configuration hasn't changed since the 08 Mac Pros, but I can't remember if the all of the PCIe slots were 2.0 slots on the 09 Mac Pro. They weren't on the 08.

If they weren't on the 09, that's a change, however marginal.

They were on 2009.

 

[deconstruct60]

Why would Apple waste the money to make the same parts but with different part numbers??

Your assumption is that it is the exact same parts. Doesn't have to be. If there are drop in replacement updates for ethernet or any of the other i/o controllers that were source of some problems Apple could update those. That would not require the dreaded updated layout to the PCB boards.

The parts are different if the firmware is different. The part number is for the whole part. Unless, Apple is rolling out 'free' updates to all folks with a 2009 with a logic board problem, the replacements for 2009's should got into 2009s and replacements for 2010 should go into 2010's. The easiest way to track that is change the part number.

 

[Roman23]

I guess..

we will wait and see.. but I still think the 2010 is a 2009 just with westmere.. thats my final say on it.

Your assumption is that it is the exact same parts. Doesn't have to be. If there are drop in replacement updates for ethernet or any of the other i/o controllers that were source of some problems Apple could update those. That would not require the dreaded updated layout to the PCB boards.

The parts are different if the firmware is different. The part number is for the whole part. Unless, Apple is rolling out 'free' updates to all folks with a 2009 with a logic board problem, the replacements for 2009's should got into 2009s and replacements for 2010 should go into 2010's. The easiest way to track that is change the part number.

 

[diazj3]

I pm and asked Roman23 for the 2009 MP Service Manual and quickly got it.... THANKS man!

this will be useful if my machine fails when applecare is over...

cheers!

 

[Roman23]

2010 addition..

Let me also add that since the "2010" is a 2009 just with westmere support.. the manual is the same as it will cover the same exact parts.. the only thing for westmere is will mention is the type of mac pro.. 4,6,8 or 12.

I pm and asked Roman23 for the 2009 MP Service Manual and quickly got it.... THANKS man!

this will be useful if my machine fails when applecare is over...

cheers!

 

[nanofrog]

Even a tiny change in one capacitor which makes it 0.001$ cheaper for Apple may be enough for new part name. Yes, it's likely the same but shall we wait for some actual FACTS and stop guessing?

A capacitor change shouldn't be enough to change the P/N (i.e. part substitution where the vendor is changed, but the specification values remain the same/similar for the location). A different semiconductor, particularly if it's got a different pin out, will.

That said, even if none of the parts change (just a firmware update), whatever board contains the ROM (I presume the daughterboard, as it makes much more sense), will change in order to reflect the difference in the firmware = different systems to Apple.

As you say, we can't say 100% for sure until there's confirmation (someone gets thier hands on one and does the research). But the likelyhood that they're the same circuits is very high, as that's what Intel designes the Tick Tock cycle to do (same socket, reference design, and chipset are used for 2yrs; only the firmware needs to be updated for the die shrink portion of the cycle to make those parts function).

I clearly told Roman23 this.

 

[silby101]

Confirmation of new part numbers

Part numbers on listed in pictures on http://www.welovemacs.com/macprotosepa.html posted under corresponding models.

New numbers for same previous parts are;

• Backplane Board, now 661-5706, was 661-4996 (v1) or 661-5444 (v2)
• Processor Board, Single, now 661-5707, was 661-4999
• Processor Board, Dual, now 661-5708, was 661-4998
• Power Supply, now 661-5449, was 661-5011
• PCIe Fan, now 922-9719, was 922-8884
• Enclosure, now 922-9631, was 922-8890
• Bluetooth Card, now 922-9006, was 922,9716
• Processor Heatsink, Dual, A, now 076-1367, was 076-1329
• Processor Heatsink, Dual, B, now 076-1368, was 076-1330

**Note the Single Processor Heatsink is the same**

Obvious PN changes are for

• Processors
• Graphics Cards
• Ram UDIMM's
• SSD Carrier Adapter and Drive
• Hard Drives
• Optical Drive (Maybe not so obvious)

I think the most unexpected changes for myself looking at this, are for the Power Supply, Enclosure, and PCIe Fan. It's kind of weird that the dual CPU heatsinks are changed, but the single CPU heatsink isn't. Maybe the dual CPU's aren't lidless?

Anyone have any theories before someone dissects one?

 

[Inconsequential]

Part numbers on listed in pictures on http://www.welovemacs.com/macprotosepa.html posted under corresponding models.

New numbers for same previous parts are;

• Backplane Board, now 661-5706, was 661-4996 (v1) or 661-5444 (v2)
• Processor Board, Single, now 661-5707, was 661-4999
• Processor Board, Dual, now 661-5708, was 661-4998
• Power Supply, now 661-5449, was 661-5011
• PCIe Fan, now 922-9719, was 922-8884
• Enclosure, now 922-9631, was 922-8890
• Bluetooth Card, now 922-9006, was 922,9716
• Processor Heatsink, Dual, A, now 076-1367, was 076-1329
• Processor Heatsink, Dual, B, now 076-1368, was 076-1330

**Note the Single Processor Heatsink is the same**

Obvious PN changes are for

• Processors
• Graphics Cards
• Ram UDIMM's
• SSD Carrier Adapter and Drive
• Hard Drives
• Optical Drive (Maybe not so obvious)

I think the most unexpected changes for myself looking at this, are for the Power Supply, Enclosure, and PCIe Fan. It's kind of weird that the dual CPU heatsinks are changed, but the single CPU heatsink isn't. Maybe the dual CPU's aren't lidless?

Anyone have any theories before someone dissects one?

The numbers may have changed but are there actually *any* differences between them...

I suspect not personally!!