Disappointed with MBP 15 - 2016

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Thresher, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. Thresher macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2002
    #1
    Let me preface by saying this that I've owned 2 PowerBooks and 2 MacBook Pros. My current machine is a maxed out 2013 MPB 15".

    I ordered my new MacBook Pro 15" a couple of weeks ago and received it this past Friday. It is now Wednesday of the following week and I've decided to return it. There are many reasons both minor and major (at least to me) for returning it. Many have been seen in reviews, but some are probably unique to me. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of buying one, but I thought I might share my experiences.

    In no particular order, here are my complaints:
    • The Touchbar is mostly useless. This will probably get better over time, but at present, there is nothing gained by having the Touchbar.
    • TouchID does not work for initial log on. It only works if you have locked the machine and left it on. This is silly, since every Windows machine can use it for initial log on and I was looking forward to that on this machine.
    • The screen is excellent, but with other vendors offering 4K densities and similar color profiles, the screen is left wanting in comparison.
    • Keyboard travel is okay, better than the MacBook, but it's incredibly loud and clicky. Key feedback is not good. I can probably get used to it over time.
    • The giant trackpad is not a bonus. I can't tell you the number of times I've accidentally deleted text by accidentally brushing my palm against it. This might not be a problem for others, because everyone holds their hands differently, but it's a problem for me.
    • I don't really care for the non-tactile trackpad. Not a deal breaker, but I find moving files from one folder another to be a PITA now, with it often not recognizing the click and drag.
    • There are sharp edges all over this machine. From the notch used to raise the lid to the edges of the vents underneath, they all catch your hand in a way that my old MBP does not. These edges are sharp and snag your hands as they rub across them. It's very un-Maclike.
    • Performance isn't much better than my current MBP. It is faster, but not for most things. Unless you are using pro apps on a regular basis, you will notice the difference over a 3 year old MBP.
    • I'm used to paying an Apple Premium. I like the products and the OS. But this is ridiculous. After deciding I wasn't going to keep this, I looked around the competition and found similarly specced (and a little higher, actually) Dell XPS 15 was roughly $900 less. And it had more memory, a higher dpi screen, a better GPU, and a more recent CPU. While the MBP cast aluminum enclosure and OS are worth a premium, it's not $900.
    • Little things: No more Mac "bong" start up. No more lighted Apple. And lack of MagSafe. I didn't realize how much I would miss all of those, but I do.
    • Thinner and lighter do not take precedence over speed and capability. My MBP was light enough and thin enough and at the time was one of the fastest machines you can buy. This new one is lighter, but not faster. This is not something I want with a Pro machine.

    So, I'm keeping my old MBP for now. I'm hoping Apple takes the criticism they have received over the new MPP constructively and fixes the problems with the next revision. I doubt they well, but I've said my piece.
     
  2. fedecape macrumors 6502

    fedecape

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    Oct 23, 2011
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    #2
    All your reasons seem fair and reasonable. The computer is not for everyone. However, be careful with Dell. Check reddit.com/r/Dell

    There's a lot of people with quality control issues with the new Kaby Lake/Pascal XPS 15 and most XPS models in general.
     
  3. ZapNZs macrumors 68020

    ZapNZs

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    Jan 23, 2017
    #3
    You make some really good points. Have you sent this in a letter or email as feedback to Apple? IMO, the more people they hear from, the more likely such changes will take place in the future.
     
  4. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 30, 2002
    #4
    I'm going to keep my MBP from 2013 for a while, at least until there is a hardware revision from Apple. Again, it's things that make Apple worth a premium. But I think the premium has gotten excessive, at least for me.

    Also, just to add, I'm one of the weirdos that doesn't mind the switch to USB-C. That, at least to me, was the least controversial thing about the new model. A couple of cheap adaptors from Amazon and I was in business.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 1, 2017 ---
    Where can this be done?
     
  5. Richard Peters macrumors regular

    Richard Peters

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    Surrey, UK
    #5
    I agree with this. The air vents should have had ever so lightly rounded edges. The same for the back of the hinge when the screen is closed.
     
  6. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    Nov 17, 2016
    Location:
    Utah
    #6
    A lot of these are subjective preferences, which no one can argue with. A couple points on objective things, though.

    What other vendor offers a P3 color space? The XPS UHD is Adobe RGB, not the same. (Also worth noting that the Mac screen is brighter, has higher contrast and has better initial color accuracy than the XPS.)
    Largely true for CPU tasks, but the new MBP is hugely faster for video editing and other applications that use the dGPU. It also runs considerably cooler and quieter while doing it.

    You get what you pay for. The XPS 9550 was an excellent bargain for those who were OK with Windows, somewhat inferior build quality, slower SSD, much less battery life, inferior external monitor support, more noise, worse speakers, in a larger, heavier package. In return, you could get 32 GB RAM, and much better repairability/upgradability. The new 9560 should improve on a couple of those things, plus a better dGPU, but for the most part the trade-offs will be the same as before.

    That said, the 2013 MBP is a fine machine, and if it's working for you, it makes good sense to stick with it. Each new iteration improves in numerous ways over the previous model, but few of us can afford to take advantage of that each time.
     
  7. ZapNZs macrumors 68020

    ZapNZs

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    #7
    https://www.apple.com/feedback/ :)
     
  8. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 30, 2002
    #8

    Looking solely at specs can be somewhat myopic. The SSD is indeed faster, but real world performance on SSDs can be minimal. If you look at the real world benchmarks on this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-sm951-nvme-versus-ahci-sata,4137.html#p13, it's clear that synthetic benchmarks don't tell the whole story. But yes, I will concede that the SSD is faster than the one in the Dell. I just don't know how that translates out.

    I agree about my points being subjective. The majority of them are. But no one buys a products simply for objective reasons. These points are negatives in my opinion and have given me buyer's remorse because my older model does not have the same "issues", for lack of a better term.

    It's my sincere hope that Apple listens to the customer base and the reviews for these machines. Most of the reviews I've read subsequent to purchasing this have leaned negative. I probably should have done more reading prior to buying since many of the complaints or concerns I've read are similar to my own.

    But, all that said, love my old MBP and I just need to do a restore and I'm back in business with a machine that works incredibly well for a 4 year old machine.
     
  9. jerryk macrumors 68030

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    SF Bay Area
    #9
    To most users P3 color space does not matter.

    And for those that do care, Apple only went halfway with the addition. They should have also added True Tone, so those color perception do not shift around as the ambient light changes. They put TrueTone in the iPhone flashes and iPad Pro 9.7, why not in the Mac Book Pro?
     
  10. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 30, 2002
    #10
    I think there is a belief that only Pros should care about the MacBook Pro line. I am willing to wager that the majority of MacBook Pro users do not use Pro apps. The majority of their usage is just like any other notebook. There is always a class of people who want the best that they can afford. For some of those people, they can afford an awful lot. I fit this market to a certain extent. But I don't like paying for something that wasn't as good a value as the last time I bought it.
     
  11. Naimfan macrumors 601

    Naimfan

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    #11
    Well said, and you echo why I've purchased two 2016 15" models - and returned both. Using the 2015 15" that I bought new the day before the new models were released; it's a noticeably better fit for what I do.

    The screen on the 2016 is nice, but indistinguishable from the 2015.
    The SSD might well measure faster, but is also indistinguishable in my everyday use.
    I find the keyboard atrocious.
    The trackpad not only looks hideously out of proportion, but does not reliably reject extraneous input.
    USB-C only was a mistake.
    Etc.
     
  12. meteoreos macrumors regular

    meteoreos

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    Nov 8, 2016
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    #12
    I moved from the 2016 to the 2015 15", and one of the first things I noticed was how the air vents were so much sharper on the newer MBP.
     
  13. bjjp2 macrumors regular

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    Jan 13, 2005
    #13
    Been using my non-TB since it came out. My only real complaint is the keyboard. Noisy and unnatural feeling. Haven't gotten used to it. It continues to slow me down.
     
  14. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    Utah
    #14
    You were comparing the specs for the XPS, so I thought you thought they mattered. Indeed, such things only matter in particular situations that may not apply for most people.

    I'm not objecting to your preferences being subjective. All of us have subjective preferences, which are at least as important as objective things.

    But the fact that many of your points are subjective means that others have equally valid preferences that differ, so when you say you hope Apple will listen, they're also going to be hearing from people who love the things you don't like. I don't care about the touch bar, but some people are loving it. I particularly like the keyboard, and can type quietly on it, while others loath it, complain of bleeding fingers, and can't get it to be less loud than a Led Zeppelin drum solo. I like the big trackpad, better for larger gestures, haven't had any trouble with it. And so on. I hope Apple will listen to me, you hope they'll listen to you.

    There are some things probably no one would object to. I'm sure Apple has a reason for requiring the password with restart, but I don't know what it is, and probably no one would complain about having the option to use touch ID.

    Someone here suggested a software fix to trackpad size complaints that would allow us to choose the active part of the touchpad, in essence to make it as small as we please. But I don't know how easy that would be.

    And maybe there are other things like that, things that would help some and not hurt others. But for the most part, Apple will be trying to please not only you but many who have preferences in conflict with yours.
     
  15. Winterfibre macrumors regular

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    Nov 30, 2016
    #15
    I waited for the news on the Macbook 2016 and when I found out about the lack of ports I bought the 2015 after, great machine
     
  16. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    #16
    I agree most people won't care about P3, or most other things that set one computer apart from another.

    Color space and True Tone are entirely separate features, so i wouldn't say Apple went only halfway with P3. They apparently got 100% of that. I don't know much about True Tone, but it doesn't sound like something people who are care about accurate color would want to rely on. Are photographers and videographers calling for it?
     
  17. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 30, 2002
    #17
    Yes, but those people have wrong opinions. :)

    To each their own, most of these are not dealbreakers for me. The keyboard and trackpad specifically are things I would have been able to live with. But in aggregation, all of these little things add up to a package that disappoints me.
     
  18. Sanpete macrumors 68020

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    Utah
    #18
    If you mean you can't tell the difference, I won't quibble about that, but there are clear objective differences that most people can easily appreciate, including extra brightness, better contrast, and more saturated color from sources that go beyond sRGB.

    Most of your other points are again subjective, but to say USB-C was a mistake is mistaking your subjective preference for something more than it is. Objectively, USB-C is by far the most powerful, flexible port available, and using it maximizes the power and flexibility of the ports. Whether people like that is another matter.
     
  19. Wildkraut, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017

    Wildkraut macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

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    #19
    I use it daily in e.g. Xcode to insert breakpoints during the runtime. I use it while writing, or even in Mail, etc.
    I really enjoy it.

    This is a security feature by design, and good that it was done that way.
    It works exactly like for the iPhone or iPad. Just close your MacBook lid and done.
    You don't have to fully shutdown the MacBook, else you plan to stop using it for a longer period(weeks,months).

    Well the resolution is known since the Keynote. Don't blade Apple for the resolution. If you want 4k buy something else and don't force yourself to buy something that doesn't meet your requirements. Just your personal issue.

    It's minimal louder yes, but does't disturb at all. Just your personal issue.

    Yes, no prob for me. Just your personal issue.

    Works fine here hmm strange, dragging it wrong? ;) Just your personal issue.

    Well, my wife has a more sensitive skin than you for sure, and she didn't complain over sharp edges yet. I suggest you to use a chain glove, the ones that butchers also use.

    Just your personal issue. It computes a lot of things quicker than my old 2015 MacBook and saves time. Time is Money.

    Have fun and enjoy the Dell. Buying a MacBook because of the Material is %$&*#. People usually buy a MacBook to work, or because of macOS and it's usability, or because of it's Unix base with great UI and available professional Applications. Sounds like you bought it because of the Apple logo.

    The startup chime just was disturbing, and you usually don't have to turn your MacBook completely off.
    The lighted Apple logo, well I tend to work in front of the display, and don't see it while working anyway.
    See, I knew that you bought it because of the Apple logo.

    Sounds like you didn't research before buying. Don't blame Apple for not doing your homework.
     
  20. jerryk macrumors 68030

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    SF Bay Area
    #20
    I am a photographer and like it. I like to shoot things that have a certain look and spend a lot of time working on it. The color correction provided by True Tone helps to ensure the vision I had in defining the image is the one the viewer sees when they view the image in their environment.

    And since the technology is already in the iPhone and 9.7 iPad Pro, I hope it will migrate to the MacBook Pro in the near future.
     
  21. Bending Pixels macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Send it to me - I'd be more than happy with it.
     
  22. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    #22
    You quoted a lot of the text, but you evidently didn't read it. I'll be the first to say that most of it is subjective (something I said in the initial post and in a subsequent post). Evidently, I am not alone with many of my minor annoyances.

    As for telling me to buy a Dell when I said was just going to keep my 2013 MBP, well, that was just mean.
     
  23. Wildkraut macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

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    Germany
    #23
    Yeah I was a bit harsh sorry.
    But most of your issues could have been avoided by researching upfront.
    Personally, I find there are acceptable complaints like e.g the ex. battery issue(solved now), scratch out of the box(sucks->return it), etc.

    But the rest does not even worth to mention, specially if you don't name any special working scenarios etc.
    This way it sounds just like you're trying to push the MacBook into bad light.

    Anyway the MacBook Pro is a great machine, and fits many working scenarios, just not yours.
    I'm earning money with it on a daily basis, and it totally pays off.

    If I start looking at stuff that way, I find negative things on everything, even on myself or my wife.
     
  24. Thresher thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 30, 2002
    #24
    It's a nice machine and if this was my first Mac and didn't know what had come before, I wouldn't be complaining. Change, in itself, is not bad. But when it feels qualitatively worse (or not as good), then it's not a good change. The ports are fine, I was pretty happy with that. The CPU is fine, really, since the new generation of intel processors don't offer a lot more than the one that's in this. What is disappointing is all the little things. So, for me, my old 2013 makes more sense. If you need a high end laptop, by all means, this is a nice one. But if you're on the fence, listen to the criticisms and make your own decision.
     
  25. Wildkraut, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017

    Wildkraut macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

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    #25
    I mean there are a few scenarios why people buy stuff.
    *Wanna, wanna, because it's new.
    *Want to archive something, and can't with older hardware.

    I bought it, because I wanted to improve my working condition.
    I work with it, I earn money with it, it pays my bills.

    I can compile faster, I can render faster, I don't have to type my super long 1password passphrase over and over again anymore, TouchID rules. If somebody is near me, I simply unlock the MacBook with the TouchID, and don't care about if he is watching me typing the login pass. Of course the TouchBar has limitations, it's not the saviour of all problems, and trying to play the DJ like in the Keynote is a joke. But the TouchBar improves the usability a lot, too.
    It has a great display, resolution and color wise. I admit I had few minor issues with the keyboard at first, but now after getting used(+/-2 weeks), typing just flies. Now I dislike other keyboards. It's great not having to lift and reposition the finger many times to move the cursor from right to left, while keeping the default slower more precise cursor movement speed and acceleration. I enjoy the bigger trackpad, too.


    If your 2013 MacBook still does the job, stay with it as long you can, it's totally fine that way.
    Don't force yourself to buy something new, just because it's new.
    It just shows that Apple did an exceptionally good work at 2013.
    The late 2016 will serve many people very well @2019/2020, too.
     

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