Disastrous update of OneDrive coming for all macOS 12.3 users

[Bustycat]

Re: Inside the new Files On-Demand Experience on macOS

This is a disastrous update. I used to spend the whole weekend on dealing with it in December 2021 and solving it by opting out Insider and re-installation. The new Files On-Demand experience is broken, syncing is broken, speed is slow, ... where is any advantage? Claim: This means a better...

techcommunity.microsoft.com

The advantages of this update they claimed are actually the biggest disadvantages ever for OneDrive on macOS.

 

[ItWasNotMe]

Re: Inside the new Files On-Demand Experience on macOS

This is a disastrous update. I used to spend the whole weekend on dealing with it in December 2021 and solving it by opting out Insider and re-installation. The new Files On-Demand experience is broken, syncing is broken, speed is slow, ... where is any advantage? Claim: This means a better...

techcommunity.microsoft.com

The advantages of this update they claimed are actually the biggest disadvantages ever for OneDrive on macOS.

This is just so poor in so many ways...

I'll just stop using it

 

[Bustycat]

This is just so poor in so many ways...

I'll just stop using it

Ultimately every syncing storage service will follow the wrong path for macOS.

 

[ItWasNotMe]

Ultimately every syncing storage service will follow the wrong path for macOS.

Poor as these changes are, not using it hopefully won't have too much impact. I only use Onedrive to selectively back up stuff off-line using my Office365 space rather than sync across devices. Just have to explore dragging files onto the web interface...

Not exactly 'progress' nor an 'improvement in the user experience'....

 

[maflynn]

the biggest disadvantages ever

Why? Honest question

 

[Bustycat]

Why? Honest question

Selecting files or folders to be kept permanently does not mean they are all downloaded. Sometimes files are treated as downloaded but they are actually not downloaded, and it is not possible to open them unless they are released and re-downloaded again. It is very annoying and time-consuming when there are thousands of files.

The post says the device will migrate automatically, but the actual results are terrible— it would take days to sync even if all files are already downloaded, and the status of downloaded or on the cloud is ruined. By the way, tags are gone.

 

[maflynn]

Sometimes files are treated as downloaded but they are actually not downloaded, and it is not possible to open them unless they are released and re-downloaded again. It is very annoying and time-consuming when there are thousands of files.

Thanks for the clarification, and yes, that does sound awful.

 

[decafjava]

Hmm I use OneDrive with my work account to sync between my work laptop (running Win 8 as it happens) my iMac at home and even my iPhone. So far it has worked well so not sure what this will change if it is my work account (and I don't choose the folder anyway). I am wondering if I shouldn't use web access in that case.

 

[Wando64]

This seems a poor decision.
I have been resisting moving to Dropbox because of the price, but I think this will force my hand.
Sadly I will also need to keep the OneDrive subscription because of Office.

By the way, I am not sure I fully understand the implications this will have on local backups.
Can anybody make sense of it?

 

[ian87w]

Can anyone tell me what's going on? From the link, the only possible issue is for those not on SSD as the new update will only support APFS, not HFS+. But other than that, they made it seem like a better improvement.

I really like the files-on-demand feature of onedrive. It's one of the reasons I ended up upgrading my 2012 mini from HS to Catalina. Before, you have to micro-manage which folder to sync, and you cannot search for files that are not synced. With the on-demand, I can use spotlight to search any files on my 1TB OneDrive without having to download everything.

 

[Bustycat]

Can anyone tell me what's going on? From the link, the only possible issue is for those not on SSD as the new update will only support APFS, not HFS+. But other than that, they made it seem like a better improvement.

I really like the files-on-demand feature of onedrive. It's one of the reasons I ended up upgrading my 2012 mini from HS to Catalina. Before, you have to micro-manage which folder to sync, and you cannot search for files that are not synced. With the on-demand, I can use spotlight to search any files on my 1TB OneDrive without having to download everything.

• It is not the current Files On-Demand you are using. The new one relies on Apple’s API, and it can’t be disabled. When I [was forced] to test it last month, it was very unreliable.
• OneDrive will become simply a cloud storage for macOS as syncing will become just caching.
• Time Machine won’t be able to build backups for OneDrive.

 

[decafjava]

Can anyone tell me what's going on? From the link, the only possible issue is for those not on SSD as the new update will only support APFS, not HFS+. But other than that, they made it seem like a better improvement.

I really like the files-on-demand feature of onedrive. It's one of the reasons I ended up upgrading my 2012 mini from HS to Catalina. Before, you have to micro-manage which folder to sync, and you cannot search for files that are not synced. With the on-demand, I can use spotlight to search any files on my 1TB OneDrive without having to download everything.

APFS is supported on Fusion Drives as well - my iMac uses APFS and has a 1 TB fusion drive, no issues.

 

[FNH15]

I’ve been using this since it came out in beta and it’s a much better experience than before.
What is the issue beyond the litany of bugs already present in OneDrive / MSFT products?

 

[Wando64]

Sorry for asking again, but does anyone understand the implications on backing up data locally?
Currently my OneDrive folder is backed up to Time Machine and via CCC, like any other folders (because that's just what it is).

After the transition to the new system there will be a Sync Root and a Cache Path, possibly on different drives.
What does this mean on the ability to create local backups that can be read and used with or without the need for OneDrive installed on the restore machine?
Thanks

 

[ian87w]

• It is not the current Files On-Demand you are using. The new one relies on Apple’s API, and it can’t be disabled. When I [was forced] to test it last month, it was very unreliable.
• OneDrive will become simply a cloud storage for macOS as syncing will become just caching.
• Time Machine won’t be able to build backups for OneDrive.

Thanks for the follow up.

- Can you elaborate on how it is unreliable? I remembered OneDrive being extremely unreliably in the past (prior to on-demand stuff). Then on Windows that have the on-demand feature, and it's been steadily improving, as well as the mac client. There are still some annoyances. If I made a huge drop of folders with thousands of files, yes OneDrive can choke as it will take time to sync them. Also the annoying thing is their file naming scheme follows Windows standard, which is more restrictive.

- I don't particularly understand the difference. I already assume that my OneDrive is a cloud storage, with on-demand files being downloaded when I want to open them. Kinda the same no?

- I don't use TM so I don't know, but can TM even backup the current implementation of OneDrive? With the on demand stuff, I don't see how TM can even back it up unless you force all files to be available offline..

 

[Wando64]

- I don't particularly understand the difference. I already assume that my OneDrive is a cloud storage, with on-demand files being downloaded when I want to open them. Kinda the same no?

Maybe I am overthinking it, but as I understand it, there will be two key locations:
- the Sync Root, which contains the links (links, not actual files) to the files stored on OneDrive, and
- the Cache Path, which will contain the actual files, but only if currently downloaded or if Pinned.

The Sync Root can only be on the main drive.
The Cache Path can be on any drive, however "The cache path folder is hidden by default. Users should not modify this folder or its contents".

So, what happens exactly when I move a new file into the OneDrive folder in the Sync Root?
Yes, it will get uploaded to One Drive, but...
Will the data be immediately moved from the Sync Root to the Cache Path?
Indeed, will it even pass via the Sync Root in the first place?

Also, is the data contained in the Cache Path usable (i.e. are the files accessible) without the OneDrive client?
e.g. Should there be a problem with the OneDrive client app and I need to turn it off, OR If I decide I don't want to use OneDrive anymore
At that point would I still be able to access the data? How do I convert it back to normal files in a folder (so to speak?) from the current situation of an index pointing to a hidden cache?
How do I back up my data?

...and many more questions

 

[KPOM]

Why? Honest question

Because it discreetly deletes uploaded files from your local drive, and there is no blanket setting to prevent that. You need to manually select each folder in your OneDrive folder that you want saved locally. I have plenty of space on my Mac and didn’t need or want them to exist only on the Cloud. I found out when I migrated a clone of my old MacBook to a 14” MacBook Pro and saw that none of my files were local and I had to redownload them, which was a hassle.

By the way, I am not sure I fully understand the implications this will have on local backups.
Can anybody make sense of it?

OneDrive files won’t be included on local backups.

Selecting files or folders to be kept permanently does not mean they are all downloaded. Sometimes files are treated as downloaded but they are actually not downloaded, and it is not possible to open them unless they are released and re-downloaded again. It is very annoying and time-consuming when there are thousands of files.

The post says the device will migrate automatically, but the actual results are terrible— it would take days to sync even if all files are already downloaded, and the status of downloaded or on the cloud is ruined. By the way, tags are gone.

Is this an issue with Apple’s API, or just how Microsoft has implemented it?

 

[Wando64]

OneDrive files won’t be included on local backups.

That is not strictly true.
As long as they are downloaded or Pinned, the file data would be included on backups.
The question is whether that data would be usable in any way (1) when restored to the same Mac (2) if restored to a different Mac without OneDrive.

 

[tosbsas]

Do you have to install OneDrive app to use this?

 

[Wando64]

I thought a bit more about this.

If someone Pins the top folder, then all of the OD data will be kept on the mac for offline access (much the same as if FOD was disabled). At least in theory.
It is my understanding that, while the actual data is stored in the Cache Path, the Sync Root will contain APFS clones which, for all intent and purposes, are the same as if the file proper was stored there.
This being the case, any backup of the Sync Root in this configuration would make accurate copies of the data/files.

What I don’t understand is whether this scenario would work in a situation where the Sync Root and the Cache Path are on different physical SSDs.

Would APFS clones be allowed, and work, between the two SSDs?
I am pretty sure that the answer is NO, in which case the entire scenario falls apart.
I’d much appreciate if anybody with a stronger knowledge of APFS could chip in.

 

[ian87w]

I thought a bit more about this.

If someone Pins the top folder, then all of the OD data will be kept on the mac for offline access (much the same as if FOD was disabled). At least in theory.
It is my understanding that, while the actual data is stored in the Cache Path, the Synch Root will contain APFS clones which, for all intent and purposes, are the same as if the file proper was stored there.
This being the case, any backup of the Synch Root in this configuration would make accurate copies of the data/files.

What I don’t understand is whether this scenario would work in a situation where the Synch Root and the Cache Path are on different physical SSDs.

Would APFS clones be allowed, and work, between the two SSDs?
I am pretty sure that the answer is NO, in which case the entire scenario falls apart.
I’d much appreciate if anybody with a stronger knowledge of APFS could chip in.

Ah, I'm starting to see where the problem could be.

Traditionally (currently prior to this update), the downloaded files are treated as regular files in their actual real folders.

The question is, after this update and using Apple's "File Provider Platform", are the "caching" path storing actual files, or are they setup in whatever way Apple/macOS control (eg. they could be in random folders/filenames like the Photos/iTunes library) while the user is just exposed to the synch root where the meta data of how the files would look like in the eyes of the users.

Am I right?
True, this requires more understanding about APFS and how "Apple's File Provider Platform" works.

 

[saudor]

Wow that sucks. Onedrive itself is horrible at delta sync too on macOS. I was editing a big PSD file and it was syncing the entire day because with every little change i made, it wanted to upload the entire/most of the file.

Dropbox does it way better in uploading only the small changes

 

[Wando64]

It's not looking good:

MacOS Monterey - Disable Files on Demand

I use OneDrive to synch all my files with another computer at work and just upgraded to Monterey. I need to be able to search for data in the files using..

techcommunity.microsoft.com

 

[gilby101]

Re: Inside the new Files On-Demand Experience on macOS

This is a disastrous update. I used to spend the whole weekend on dealing with it in December 2021 and solving it by opting out Insider and re-installation. The new Files On-Demand experience is broken, syncing is broken, speed is slow, ... where is any advantage? Claim: This means a better...

techcommunity.microsoft.com

The advantages of this update they claimed are actually the biggest disadvantages ever for OneDrive on macOS.

I don't see the horrors of this. It has made me relook (in a positive way) at using OneDrive on my Mac. Yes, I need to sort out backup, but mostly that just needs folders to pinned.

 

[Wando64]

. but mostly that just needs folders to pinned.

After reading about the file structure utilised by OD, what gives you the reassurance that backups will be straight forward? (This is a genuine question. I hope they will be straight forward)

Also, did you read the link I posted just before your post, highlighting problems with the Pinning function?
Thats enough to worry me.