Disney+ to Start Cracking Down on Password Sharing in November

[zorinlynx]

Disney have actually been losing $1Bn per quarter for 13 consecutive quarters. The ONLY reason that dropped to 1/2 billion is because they put the first few episodes of Andor and Ms Marvel on ABC - meaning they could push the production expenditure off the Disney+ ledger and onto ABC's costs.

They also cancelled Spiderwick Chronicles and Nautilus, both of which cost over $200M, to remove them from the Disney+ ledger. Both shows were already filmed and finished. They just had to release them. Instead they're trying to sell them to other streamers and broadcasters internationally to recoup that money - otherwise they'll write off the loss and use them as a tax deduction.

Disney is $14 Billion in the hole on D+ just from their operations and have absolutely no prospect of turning it around. They're also on the hook for up to $25Bn more to acquire the last 33% of Hulu from Comcast.

They also bought Fox for $71.3Bn just for the back catalogue of content to put on D+. That puts them in a negative position of $85.3Bn plus whatever Hulu costs them.

Sorry, but I don't buy the fact that Disney+ is losing that much money.

Maybe they are when you apply weird corporate accounting, but the simple fact is that the TV shows on Disney+ build up a fan base. Then that fan base wants to go to theme parks, and spend money there so they can go on rides about their favorite show, and buy merchandise about their favorite show.

Even if the business unit itself is losing money, overall it is making money for the company. Disney is still highly profitable despite all this and it likely would not be if not for Disney+ and other corporate components maintaining a fan base despite technically "losing money."

 

[whitby]

Cable TV has ads, even though you pay for the service. Netflix has an ads tier, Disney + is rolling one out as well.

All of these services that were supposed to be enticing to cut cable are now resorting back to the ways of cable.

Oh, and not everyone pays separately for streaming services. Lots of carriers and companies offer them as part of their service.

This precisely why I do not have cable and moved to streaming as soon as it became available and/or bought specific shows on Apple iTunes. I also ensure I subscribe to the add free tiers for streaming services and if one is not available I do not use the service.

As the streaming services add advertising to their standard tiers and start charging more for their ad free tiers I carefully review whether the service is worth it and, if not, drop the subscription (Amazon is a case in point at the moment as they intend to raise the cost for ad. free subscriptions by $2.99 a month. Since this is tied with Prime, we may just delete their streaming app if we decide not to cough up more money for nothing).

I dumped Disney+ because we did not view enough of their content to justify their increase in subscription price. I watch no advertising on any of my current subscription services and will continue to do so as long as I can. If ad. free services are unavailable or too expensive, I will revert to buying specific shows as needed. In the end I would rather watch nothing than pay for advertising to be delivered into my home. If the service is free but has ads then we may watch it as that is the way the service is funded, but I am not paying them to send me ads. BTW I would point out we do not watch any sports except F1 via their streaming service.

 

[votdfak]

I am on Stremio. It's great.

 

[Abazigal]

Sorry, but I don't buy the fact that Disney+ is losing that much money.

Maybe they are when you apply weird corporate accounting, but the simple fact is that the TV shows on Disney+ build up a fan base. Then that fan base wants to go to theme parks, and spend money there so they can go on rides about their favorite show, and buy merchandise about their favorite show.

Even if the business unit itself is losing money, overall it is making money for the company. Disney is still highly profitable despite all this and it likely would not be if not for Disney+ and other corporate components maintaining a fan base despite technically "losing money."

In theory.

But what happens when that fan base sours?

Merchandise doesn't move and theme parks don't sell.

 

[webkit]

Cable TV has ads, even though you pay for the service. Netflix has an ads tier, Disney + is rolling one out as well.

All of these services that were supposed to be enticing to cut cable are now resorting back to the ways of cable.

Streaming services didn’t invent/create the ad-free viewing experience. HBO, Showtime, and others had that going back decades. What streaming services did was allow people to subscribe to individual products without needing a cable TV plan and that hasn't changed.

Premium streaming services also still have ad-free plans so that really hasn't changed either. People now have a choice of going ad-supported (for a lower price) or ad-free.

Although premium streaming service prices may be on the rise, they are still much lower (at least after adjusting for inflation) than what premium channel cost decades ago and those channels back then typically had less content, didn't have on demand functionality, and required a cable TV plan.

 

[whitby]

You'd be in the large minority as cable tv provided ads to all of America for decades before Netflix.

Which is why we cut cable as soon as we could and moved to buying the shows we wanted via iTunes and then used streaming services that were ad free. On cable we focused on the ad free channels for as long as we could, the so called premium channels, but once they were destroyed by the owners with terrible content we moved away from them. Streaming used to provide non linear watching as well, but they seem to be moving away from this back to weekly releases. We just wait until the series is complete and then watch the series at own pace. Much easier on us and we have no interest in being the first to watch a series.

 

[Abazigal]

Cable TV has ads, even though you pay for the service. Netflix has an ads tier, Disney + is rolling one out as well.

All of these services that were supposed to be enticing to cut cable are now resorting back to the ways of cable.

Oh, and not everyone pays separately for streaming services. Lots of carriers and companies offer them as part of their service.

Maybe that just shows that Cable was on to something in terms of pricing and sustainability.

IMO, the benefit of video streaming highlights the problematic areas of cable - mainly the lack of convenience and value. You paid for dozens of channels with little good stuff to watch, the shows were often not of a time to your preference, and it was hard to cancel.

Streaming services have addressed pretty much all of those bugbears save for maybe the price. You can build your own bundle by subscribing to as many (or as few) services as you like (and even rotate amongst them). You don't need additional equipment, you can watch at any time, and even any place. A good argument can be made that the greater satisfaction and enjoyment found with streaming warrants higher pricing than cable.

The problem was that Netflix ran with artificially low monthly pricing in order to grab as many subscribers as possible. This served to set expectations early on that paid video streaming should cost a certain price. Ten dollars became an unofficial line in the sand for monthly content subscriptions. As competitors entered the fray, they similarly launched services at artificially low pricing in order to compete against Netflix and grab as many subscribers as possible. Customers got hooked on the idea of receiving seemingly unlimited content for unrealistically low prices.

Customers shouldn't fear higher prices, especially if it can help ensure the long-term viability of your preferred streaming service.

 

[marco114]

So my kids watch Disney + here at the house, then they go to Grandmas and watch it there. Do I need two subscriptions? That seems insane considering they are the only ones watching it. It's not like Grandma is sitting there watching Mickey Mouse while the kids aren't there.

 

[marco114]

I guess I'll setup a VPN to my house and have everyone share my connection. There's ways to fix this.

 

[Docsta80]

i pirate all my media anyways, this doesn't bother me.

Do you steal gum at the grocery store too?

I pirate, and steal gum. I believe it should be free. What a silly question.

 

[Velin]

Sorry, but I don't buy the fact that Disney+ is losing that much money.

Maybe they are when you apply weird corporate accounting, but the simple fact is that the TV shows on Disney+ build up a fan base. Then that fan base wants to go to theme parks, and spend money there so they can go on rides about their favorite show, and buy merchandise about their favorite show.

Even if the business unit itself is losing money, overall it is making money for the company. Disney is still highly profitable despite all this and it likely would not be if not for Disney+ and other corporate components maintaining a fan base despite technically "losing money."

DIS is publicly traded. They have quarterly SEC filings. And if they fail to publicly disclose their true and accurate financial performance, it’s securities fraud.

And Disney+? An absolute disaster. The losses are in the many billions. The public is NOT buying what Disney is selling at prices and amounts needed to turn a profit. Some will never admit the reason is their “agenda.” But they are destroying their IP. Disney has a lot of problems, and overseas is much worse than even the U.S. concerning certain issues.

The staggering losses speak for themselves:

For Disney, Streaming Losses and TV’s Decline Are a One-Two Punch​

Robert A. Iger’s urgent need to overhaul Disney — to turn its streaming division into a profitable enterprise and pull back on its troubled traditional television business — came into sharp relief on Wednesday.

Disney’s streaming operation lost $512 million in the most-recent quarter, the company said, bringing total streaming losses since 2019, when Disney+ was introduced, to more than $11 billion. Disney+ lost roughly 11.7 million subscribers worldwide in the three months that ended July 1, for a new total of 146.1 million. …

It was the second consecutive quarter in which Disney’s traditional TV business recorded a sharp decline in operating income. Disney is now exploring a once-unthinkable sale of a stake in ESPN. Not all of it, Mr. Iger has made clear. But he wants ”strategic partners that could either help us with distribution or content,” he said during an interview with CNBC last month. Disney has held talks with the National Football League, the National Basketball Association and Major League Baseball about taking a minority stake.

 

[spinedoc77]

Most likely Disney will see increased subs just like Netflix did. Everyone talks a big game about disconnecting, but when push comes to shove they just keep writing the checks. For myself I've been really happy with "discovering" life outside of streaming media as I've just stopped paying for most of these services, enjoying actual hobbies like 3d printing and painting, spending time with the kids, playing sports, getting involved in my school, local govt, etc. Maybe it's a good thing these guys will outprice the consumer market soon.

 

[Alan Wynn]

They actually got more money from us before all this non sense. Sharing a Premium UHD account divided by 2 made them more money than 2 people on a single ad free account

Are you saying that you are now two people in two different locations sharing a single account, two people in one location sharing one account or two people each with their own accounts? How about putting in some numbers, so it is easy to understand what you are saying?

 

[jwdsail]

D+ is already a pay for a month or two and binge service for me.. the more obnoxious they get re: price hikes and controlling where I watch, especially if I'm on the road? Could be a binge for one month every other year... really quick.

 

[6787872]

I prefer to support media I care about. As long as they are not requiring bundling, year long contracts, or ads, I prefer the legal route. That is most media these days. Same thing with Music. All my music is legal now that the industry adopted a sane model.

 

[contacos]

Are you saying that you are now two people in two different locations sharing a single account, two people in one location sharing one account or two people each with their own accounts? How about putting in some numbers, so it is easy to understand what you are saying?

What’s with the attitude?

Premium is 17,99 Euro
Basic is 7,99€

I used to share Premium with a different house hold for 17,99 Euro and we split the cost (so 8,99€ per person). Now we are obviously not going to buy two separate premium accounts and therefore they are now getting 7,99€ instead of 8,99€ from us (two basic for 7,99€ each instead of 17,99 for Premium)

 

[cocky jeremy]

Sweet. Another one I can cancel.

 

[jwdsail]

Most likely Disney will see increased subs just like Netflix did. Everyone talks a big game about disconnecting, but when push comes to shove they just keep writing the checks. For myself I've been really happy with "discovering" life outside of streaming media as I've just stopped paying for most of these services, enjoying actual hobbies like 3d printing and painting, spending time with the kids, playing sports, getting involved in my school, local govt, etc. Maybe it's a good thing these guys will outprice the consumer market soon.

Oddly enough, we've never seen a breakdown of how those numbers reflect the "accommodations"" Netflix had said that they'd make for non-traditional families and others needing other options?

I'm sure that there are families that have additional new "accounts", but Netflix isn't billing for the 2nd account because of the family situation..

And, I know multiple families that stopped keeping Netflix as a 12/mo a yr service and now renew their "multiple accounts" when everyone wants to watch a few things and binge and talk about stuff they're watching... So, even with multiple accounts, they're all paying... less?

So, the new accounts exist, sure, but how many are those "accommodations"? How many are keeping it 12/mo a year, and how many are now using Netflix like many treat MOX, D+, or Starz, renew for a month or two then cancel?

Netflix is always going to paint a pretty picture and make it sound like everything is going according to plan, to keep shareholders happy, and to get consumers to feel at least a little FOMO?

I think a lot of parents keep D+ 12/mo a year for the kids, probably keep a fire stick logged into the account at the grandparents house too, that gets used when the grandkids are there.. Will they pay more, for an additional device that may only get used a few times a year? Or, will they just download some stuff to the kids iPads before hitting the road?

I don't think that the "password sharing" they think is there.. is there, or will convert to more paid accounts.

Darth Mickey could prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[spinedoc77]

DIS is publicly traded. They have quarterly SEC filings. And if they fail to publicly disclose their true and accurate financial performance, it’s securities fraud.

And Disney+? An absolute disaster. The losses are in the many billions. The public is NOT buying what Disney is selling at prices and amounts needed to turn a profit. Some will never admit the reason is their “agenda.” But they are destroying their IP. Disney has a lot of problems, and overseas is much worse than even the U.S. concerning certain issues.

The staggering losses speak for themselves:

I get Disney+ included with my Verizon account so it's one of the few services I still pay attention to, but I'm also finding it lackluster overall. Not because of any woke agenda nonsense which doesn't exist, but mainly because the content just isn't that great. I loved The Mandalorian, but all the other SW offshoots are just meh at best and I tuned out of them after the first few episodes.

I wonder how ESPN+ is doing versus Disney+ as it seems sports fans are much more loyal and willing to spend money, although I don't have numbers to back that up.

 

[IIGS User]

I've had this service for years and almost never use it. I get the Hulu, Disney+, ESPN bundle through my Verizon wireless bundle. Which also comes with Apple Music, which is the service I use the most of all of them.

I can't remember the last time we logged into Disney+. I just never watch it. My wife never watches it, and she grew up with Disney movies. I watched some of the Marvel "universe" movies back when we first got it. And really. How much Star Wars can they make? I like the original ones, but it's gotten a little out of hand.

So there's really not enough new content there I'm interested in. I keep it because it's included in my free bundle and something MIGHT come on that interests me. Some sort of special or new movie we missed in the theater.

I'm still peeved at Hulu. I stream that through an Amazon Firestick and whenever something from FX goes to commercial, the sound takes a crap. To use anything on the Firestick I have to reboot the Firestick. No one at Amazon or Hulu seems to care to figure it out one way or another. So I just watch different content.

Right now, the services I think are most worth my money are Amazon Prime and Paramount+. Paramount+ has a ton of stuff and Amazon puts out some decent new stuff on their own.

As far as Disney remaking things like Little Mermaid, or whatever. These movies never held any interest for me. I don't care that it's "woke" or whatever it's called these days. I don't care for being preached to either way when being entertained. I'm "here to forget" for a while. Not to be fed an agenda.

There are plenty of artists and entertainers that harbor some significantly different views on the world than I do. So long as you're not stuffing it in my face (whatever it may be) and I enjoy your content, then I will be happy to spend my money to be entertained. Once I'm force fed something, I'm no longer entertained and I just go elsewhere. Same as I would in a movie theater that was always dirty, or a sports team that stinks all the time.

As far as password sharing? I believe that if it violates the TOS of the provider it's theft. Pure and simple. Content isn't free. It takes writers, producers, actors, and 1,000's of others to produce content. Those people deserve to be paid. It's no different than going down to the local store and shoplifting. You can rationalize it all you want, but I believe it's theft. If the provider allows it and condones it, then that's part of what you paid for.

No one here would produce whatever it is they do to make a buck for free, or appreciate someone consuming it without just compensation. I know it would upset me, so I don't do it.

If I enjoy something, I feel compelled to pay for it unless it's explicitly offered for free.

 

[spinedoc77]

Oddly enough, we've never seen a breakdown of how those numbers reflect the "accommodations"" Netflix had said that they'd make for non-traditional families and others needing other options?

I'm sure that there are families that have additional new "accounts", but Netflix isn't billing for the 2nd account because of the family situation..

And, I know multiple families that stopped keeping Netflix as a 12/mo a yr service and now renew their "multiple accounts" when everyone wants to watch a few things and binge and talk about stuff they're watching... So, even with multiple accounts, they're all paying... less?

So, the new accounts exist, sure, but how many are those "accommodations"? How many are keeping it 12/mo a year, and how many are now using Netflix like many treat MOX, D+, or Starz, renew for a month or two then cancel?

Netflix is always going to paint a pretty picture and make it sound like everything is going according to plan, to keep shareholders happy, and to get consumers to feel at least a little FOMO?

I think a lot of parents keep D+ 12/mo a year for the kids, probably keep a fire stick logged into the account at the grandparents house too, that gets used when the grandkids are there.. Will they pay more, for an additional device that may only get used a few times a year? Or, will they just download some stuff to the kids iPads before hitting the road?

I don't think that the "password sharing" they think is there.. is there, or will convert to more paid accounts.

Darth Mickey could prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

That's exactly what I do, if there is a show I want to watch I'll sub for a month and binge watch the 10 episodes, then cancel. I just go round robin with each service, 1 month Netflix, 1 month HBO, 1 month Apple, etc, maybe subbing 4-5 months to all of them per year, if that. Honestly I just realized that the vast majority of the content is just complete filler crap that doesn't really provide entertainment, it just provides what I call "zombie time," time spent just looking at something to fill the empty spaces of life.

I wonder if there will actually be any sort of stream-cutting ever. Consumers seem more than willing to pay for this, I don't think cable consumption started to go down significantly until streaming services came on board which just means consumers will pay one way or another.

 

[ChrisA]

Do you steal gum at the grocery store too?

That's different. If you shoplift, the store no longer has the product. You have it. But if you watch a downloaded movie, the company still has the movie. No, it is not a lost sale because VERY FEW downloaders would have bought the product.

This does so little harm to the companies that they no longer bother worrying about it. They rightly don't count it as lost sales. But surprisingly password sharing is a lost sale. No one thought is was until Netflix showed that many password sharers would convert to subscribers. This really did surprise the industry.

 

[spinedoc77]

I've had this service for years and almost never use it. I get the Hulu, Disney+, ESPN bundle through my Verizon wireless bundle. Which also comes with Apple Music, which is the service I use the most of all of them.

I can't remember the last time we logged into Disney+. I just never watch it. My wife never watches it, and she grew up with Disney movies. I watched some of the Marvel "universe" movies back when we first got it. And really. How much Star Wars can they make? I like the original ones, but it's gotten a little out of hand.

So there's really not enough new content there I'm interested in. I keep it because it's included in my free bundle and something MIGHT come on that interests me. Some sort of special or new movie we missed in the theater.

I'm still peeved at Hulu. I stream that through an Amazon Firestick and whenever something from FX goes to commercial, the sound takes a crap. To use anything on the Firestick I have to reboot the Firestick. No one at Amazon or Hulu seems to care to figure it out one way or another. So I just watch different content.

Right now, the services I think are most worth my money are Amazon Prime and Paramount+. Paramount+ has a ton of stuff and Amazon puts out some decent new stuff on their own.

As far as Disney remaking things like Little Mermaid, or whatever. These movies never held any interest for me. I don't care that it's "woke" or whatever it's called these days. I don't care for being preached to either way when being entertained. I'm "here to forget" for a while. Not to be fed an agenda.

There are plenty of artists and entertainers that harbor some significantly different views on the world than I do. So long as you're not stuffing it in my face (whatever it may be) and I enjoy your content, then I will be happy to spend my money to be entertained. Once I'm force fed something, I'm no longer entertained and I just go elsewhere. Same as I would in a movie theater that was always dirty, or a sports team that stinks all the time.

As far as password sharing? I believe that if it violates the TOS of the provider it's theft. Pure and simple. Content isn't free. It takes writers, producers, actors, and 1,000's of others to produce content. Those people deserve to be paid. It's no different than going down to the local store and shoplifting. You can rationalize it all you want, but I believe it's theft. If the provider allows it and condones it, then that's part of what you paid for.

No one here would produce whatever it is they do to make a buck for free, or appreciate someone consuming it without just compensation. I know it would upset me, so I don't do it.

If I enjoy something, I feel compelled to pay for it unless it's explicitly offered for free.

Amazon was one of the last services which used to be worth it. But lately more and more of their content is that Freevee crap with ads, kind of a slick way for them to have ads but say they don't have ads. Now with their proposed $2.99 on top just to not have ads (although I'm sure that won't include Freevee) AND them raising the Prime price every couple of years, I'm starting to wonder if that's even worth it. What else would I lose by canceling Prime? They already fubared Amazon Music, the selection of books/audible included is really skimpy, and would I really die if I didn't get 2 day shipping?

 

[dannyyankou]

That's different. If you shoplift, the store no longer has the product. You have it. But if you watch a downloaded movie, the company still has the movie. No, it is not a lost sale because VERY FEW downloaders would have bought the product.

This does so little harm to the companies that they no longer bother worrying about it. They rightly don't count it as lost sales. But surprisingly password sharing is a lost sale. No one thought is was until Netflix showed that many password sharers would convert to subscribers. This really did surprise the industry.

If very few downloaders would’ve bought the product, then isn’t it a lost sale if someone downloads and doesn’t buy it? You’re making no sense.

I just think if you want to enjoy a product, whether it’s something from a retail store or a piece of media, you have to pay up. And it doesn’t matter if the studio still owns the movie, actors deserve to be paid for their work and piracy undercuts that. There is corporate greed too, but we can have a separate conversation about that. I just think piracy is morally wrong and see it no differently than any other theft.

 

[MacFan782040]

I have never understood why password sharing was considered legitimate on a paid for service. I know Netflix actively encouraged the practice for a while, which makes it difficult to accept them removing the privilege. However in this case it was never a legitimate option and we should be prepared to pay for an ad free service. Now if they add ads. then it is a different matter because I will never pay a company to deliver advertising to my house and the service should be free.

Did you never pay for cable? That was standard for many decades.