Do you like Liquid Glass on Mac?

[kkclstuff]

"if they knew"​

yeah "if they knew" raises alot of questions, especially if you've ever tried to use the Apple Knowledge base or Apple Feedback.

For maybe the past 10+yrs the Knowledge base has been 'locked down'—especially when the question is highly relevant to an issue. Someone will ask ... hey this isnt working as expected or explained and when you go to join the conversation (to either explain, give solution, or commiserate about the lack of help) the "thread is locked and no longer taking replies". 😕

It feels like a form of gaslighting to me and macOS26 has been the 1st time I've felt this directly from an  product and not just 'talk' on the user-base request/inquiry/compliant forums.

So, does Apple know? (maybe, probably, most likely yes), do they care? (im not sure anymore and doubtful).
I think there are lot of us 'old-timers' (System 7 here) that are disappointed to see this as a path to mediocrity, a distraction of 'bells and whistles' for the company—and that is not the  experience we've grown to expect (and love).

 

[amancalledsun]

"if they knew"​

yeah "if they knew" raises alot of questions, especially if you've ever tried to use the Apple Knowledge base or Apple Feedback.

For maybe the past 10+yrs the Knowledge base has been 'locked down'—especially when the question is highly relevant to an issue. Someone will ask ... hey this isnt working as expected or explained and when you go to join the conversation (to either explain, give solution, or commiserate about the lack of help) the "thread is locked and no longer taking replies". 😕

It feels like a form of gaslighting to me and macOS26 has been the 1st time I've felt this directly from an  product and not just 'talk' on the user-base request/inquiry/compliant forums.

So, does Apple know? (maybe, probably, most likely yes), do they care? (im not sure anymore and doubtful).
I think there are lot of us 'old-timers' (System 7 here) that are disappointed to see this as a path to mediocrity, a distraction of 'bells and whistles' for the company—and that is not the  experience we've grown to expect (and love).

Honestly, it really seems like Tim Cook is just trying to milk profit for his last months/years as CEO, regardless of the long-term picture for the company. Shareholders are happy and he gets his performance bonuses. The innovation piece is long gone.

 

[Technerd108]

I’m now using an MS Surface 7 ARM with a touchscreen, and even though Windows 11’s UI doesn’t seem specifically designed for touch support, it works really well with it. I’m not sure if Apple had to make extensive changes to its UI to support touch, or at least not to this degree. That said, iOS is built for touch, yet they’ve stumbled with UI/UX much like with Tahoe. The new Apple updates feel more like a step backward than an improvement, almost as if they’re designed for planned obsolescence. They leave people with devices that, after the final upgrade, end up crippled with no way to downgrade in case for older iPhones and iPads. That’s why the idea of “let’s wait for 27 and see” comes across as ill-intentioned toward end users.

I think you are exactly right!

Well said!

 

[Technerd108]

I would soften it a bit - "let's wait for 27 and see" comes across as inconsiderate. I do have a laptop whose upgrade path ended with Sequoia, unable to move to Tahoe. I dodged a bullet. If that laptop was stuck on Tahoe, I would have been very disappointed.

I'm not sure I understand your point about planned obsolescence. Are you suggesting Apple knows 26 is flawed and will release 27 to fix it but make 27 mostly unavailable to older hardware?

I agree that 27 is a step backward for me and the usability of my computer. It will get worse as more of my applications convert to Liquid Glass. Right now, they are few and far between. It could be that Apple set the OS on a path that will end us in a much better place. But, they shouldn't have released a production OS that didn't take us further along that path. And if someone depends on hardware that gets stuck here, that would be very unfortunate.

I am not the person who you are responding to but in my opinion it is forced obsolescence for all non touch macs.


At least this hardware change seems like something that could punish those who don't own a touchscreen mac because they will be limited in software and features and the resale value will plummet on all Macs as the touchscreen makes it to the entire MacBook line.

I hope I am wrong!

 

[CrabQueenInc]

I still weep for the loss of titlebars, going back to Big Sur. RIP.

Removing the title bars is one of the most unforgivable changes that Apple has made to macOS.

I need to use Windows 11 at work. While I actually don't mind navigating between application windows using the preview overlay in the taskbar, I am forever having to paw at narrow gaps between icons in order to find the sweet spot to grab and move the window itself. Apple has trended in this negative usability direction since Big Sur, and the issue has only gotten worse with Tahoe.

The loss of the title bar also coincides with Apple's movement to allow names of applications and documents to be truncated with ellipses, which is lazy and frustrating to parse.

 

[Sowelu]

There was no need to iOS-ify macOS to work well with touchscreens (if these are indeed in Apple's roadmap). In fact, I would argue that the changes that they made to macOS in recent years with the little 'x' boxes, additional steps and clicks, the little back and forth arrows and so on, require more focus and honing-in on larger displays used in MacBooks, especially for those who run tighter resolutions, unlike previous iterations of macOS with larger and more clear viewed elements, buttons and icons to interact with.

iOS works well as a touch OS on the smaller, hand-held touchscreens on iPhones and iPads, so perhaps Apple is iOS-ifyng macOS to help bring users from their massive iOS user-base (which dwarfs their Mac user-base) over to macOS to push more services on the them to broaden the user's use of Apple's ecosystem, and or to cross-sell more Apple hardware. I am sure Apple feels that this approach would make this 'easier' for these users to come over to Mac, and probably think it's part of their 'it just works' philosophy, which has been eroding in recent years.

This is, at least, my take.

 

[unique-macrumors-user]

Better in every way.....


View attachment 2589617

I have a white macbook that looks like that and still boots.

 

[thebart]

I use dark mode all the time and stage manager, but I happened to move a window over a light area of the wallpaper and it peaked through the edge of the window border. This made it really obvious how big the edges are and how much space is wasted.

This really irks me because I have poor eyesight and run my 4k monitor at "looks like 1080p", so every row and column of pixels counts. And so much is wasted to pretty design

Like: the menu bar got bigger yet the font size stays the same and the Apple icon and the menu text aren't vertically aligned. So, they use up more space, do nothing to improve readability, and trigger my OCD. Quite the hat trick

 

[CrabQueenInc]

I find Liquid Glass to be a misnomer for the UI in Tahoe. When I tested Tahoe, and now when I look at screenshots or see videos, Liquid Glass is more like Dirty Paper, particularly in comparison to iOS 26. UI elements are generally layers of varying shades of white only differentiated, if at all, by a shadow; other parts of the UI look like parchment paper or tracing paper when something is behind them; control menus are just a grey box; textboxes have no depth; and so on. The experience is somehow drab despite how overwhelmingly white most of UI is.

 

[amancalledsun]

I find Liquid Glass to be a misnomer for the UI in Tahoe. When I tested Tahoe, and now when I look at screenshots or see videos, Liquid Glass is more like Dirty Paper, particularly in comparison to iOS 26. UI elements are generally layers of varying shades of white only differentiated, if at all, by a shadow; other parts of the UI look like parchment paper or tracing paper when something is behind them; control menus are just a grey box; textboxes have no depth; and so on. The experience is somehow drab despite how overwhelmingly white most of UI is.

This seems like a fairly accurate assessment of the current state of things.

 

[mackard]

I've been living in tahoe properly for the last week or so. Managed to debloat it enough by turning so much off in system preferences.. the depth of preferences they include is astounding now. Also some targeted use of renice also helps (could be just my machine, but lowering the priority of logd and launchservicesd partially restored snappiness).

I can't get over though the impression every single time that the os is ugly. Specifically the rounded windows in combination with the glaring, non transparent white. I think there's a reason past macos used grey. Its so close, i strongly appreciate the desire for form over function, to me the heart was in a welcome place. Its just ugly. In contrast, the transparent unibody sidebar in previous macos is stunning.

Dark mode dulls the ugliness but i can't run in dark mode outside reviewing it, just becomes an distraction when you don't care.

I really really like and approve of the transparent menu bar and dock. If you can manage to get a screensaver behind it its truly amazing.

As i was a raised a windows user, i don't mind more exposed in the system preferences, but sadly, the new depth is not in terms of actual function, its more like windows 10 where all you turn off is pages of privacy or bloat related stuff. That part of it was not inspiring.

 

[ClaraStahlbaum]

I really don't see much of a difference, oddly enough. Maybe I've just gotten used to it, but it doesn't matter to me that much. I hide the dock when I am not using it. Nothing else about it I hate, or particularly love. So my opinion of it is neutral.

 

[maflynn]

Managed to debloat

What do you mean debloat it?

 

[Yvan256]

I am not the person who you are responding to but in my opinion it is forced obsolescence for all non touch macs.


At least this hardware change seems like something that could punish those who don't own a touchscreen mac because they will be limited in software and features and the resale value will plummet on all Macs as the touchscreen makes it to the entire MacBook line.

I hope I am wrong!

And how exactly are they going to force touch screens on Mac mini and Mac studio users?

The second they force people to buy an overpriced Apple monitor is the day they lose 99% of the Mac mini users and let's say 25% of the Mac Studio users.

You also can't buy anything that's not 16:10 from Apple and after using an ultrawide monitor for the last five years there's no way I would be going back to either 16:9 or 16:10.

 

[mackard]

What do you mean debloat it?

Well, as a non exhaustive list:

- Stopped using the bluetooth magic mouse which certainly improves the click lag / swallowing effect.
- Turned off auto dim widgets on desktop (might be placebo)
- Turned off "show inline predictive text (i think this helped keyboard lag)
- Removed "omw" from the inline predictive text (might be placebo)
- Unchecked every detailed app option for siri app learning (might be placebo but i swear this helped)
- Turned off auto replacing text and typing suggestions in the touch bar
- Turned off all of siri pretty much
- Turned off autoplay animated images in accessibility (might be placebo)
- Ran my long running debloat script, one of the things it takes off is photoanalysisd. Its not very brutal and hasn't been updated in years though so probably is missing alot of the new modern services apple has added.

This has resulted in a "functional but not always" install of tahoe, in contrast to an always functional install for ventura, also in contrast to so bloated clicks and typing lag from the default tahoe install. More testing and tweaking to come.

 

[maflynn]

Well, as a non exhaustive list:
...
More testing and tweaking to come.

Thanks, do you mind sharing that script, either inthis thread or a private message?

I make a few points, first, I stopped using BT mice years ago for the very reason why you stopped in Tahoe. I don't think its a tahoe thing, per say. I like the list of times that you turned off, as I don't use much of that myself and streamlining the OS is something I'm always interested in. I know how in Windows, I'm less sure in macOS

 

[mackard]

Thanks, do you mind sharing that script, either inthis thread or a private message?

I make a few points, first, I stopped using BT mice years ago for the very reason why you stopped in Tahoe. I don't think its a tahoe thing, per say. I like the list of times that you turned off, as I don't use much of that myself and streamlining the OS is something I'm always interested in. I know how in Windows, I'm less sure in macOS

I would, but i don't want to, as i've made no effort to keep it developed. Basically i start from this, or something like it,

Disable Tahoe Bloatware

Disable Tahoe Bloatware. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

and nearly always add back stuff in (or delete entries from these scripts) The people who don't like bloat typically also don't use any of apples services, yet i definitely do, firstly apple music and then the rest of the ecosystem, so nearly always these things break apple services for me when run as provided. Yeah the one i use is very outdated, it references scripts that no longer exist or have been renamed.

Looking at MINE now though, i attempt to disable: imessage and facetime (see many people would use these), game center, homekit, advertising related, screen sharing, voice overs, screen time, junk related to telephones, photoanalysisd which is a menace, java, apple education related daemons, whatever touristd is, siri suggestions, and mediaanalysisd. And i havent used a new cut of these scripts since maybe catalina or big sur.. i can imagine the number of launching items apple has added since has increased quite alot, and i haven't even looked though them!

Tahoe will be a forever os for this machine so might do so at some point in the future.
Look at all the files in /System/Library/LaunchAgents and /System/Library/LaunchDaemons as the main repository of what apple has going on in the background there. Start with a google search for each one. Might be something to just nurse over a few weeks.

Good luck!

And from that list i had earlier, im definitely curious on whether they had any effect to effectively "fix" the lag of clicking, launching and typing on tahoe. My gut is saying that each of those individually might not have, but the additive effect has me almost settled for now.

EDIT: Don't use the above script as provided, i really wouldn't recommend it. I've tried many versions that person has provided and its never worked out successfully as is.

 

[maflynn]

Thanks for the github link, I'll use that to make my own script.

 

[genexx]

Contacts app in Tahoe looks like it woke up in the wrong OS. Someone tell Apple Handoff wasn’t meant for design shortcuts.

View attachment 2535432

I've been using macOS Tahoe on my MacBook Air M2, and while I can appreciate Apple wanting to modernize the look, the UI changes have become a real reason I barely use that machine anymore. The sheer amount of screen space lost to oversized tab bars, toolbars, and the "double bezel" effect from nested rounded (not in sync) corners is especially painful on a 13" laptop screen.

This is also why I'm staying on Sequoia on my main work machine — a Mac Mini M4 with a 34" ultrawide where I regularly work with 15–20 apps and countless windows side by side. I simply can't afford to lose that much usable space to UI chrome. Buying additional monitors to compensate for bigger toolbars shouldn't be the answer.

To put this in perspective: I've been a Mac user for over 34 years and this is the first time I've ever chosen not to install a macOS update. That should tell you something.

I could adapt to different icons or the Liquid Glass aesthetic — but the loss of functional screen real estate is what's keeping me from adopting Tahoe on the machines I actually depend on.

On a related note, the Phone app on iOS 26 has similar UX issues. The call UI feels inconsistent — sometimes a contact shortcut dials immediately, sometimes you have to tap the phone icon first. During an active call, the interface is genuinely confusing to navigate. For something as fundamental as making a phone call, this inconsistency is frustrating.

A compact UI mode for macOS, or at least an option to reduce toolbar and tab bar sizing, would make a huge difference for power users. And on iOS, the Phone app could really use a UX review focused on consistency and clarity.

 

[TumbleDryer]

I've been using macOS Tahoe on my MacBook Air M2, and while I can appreciate Apple wanting to modernize the look, the UI changes have become a real reason I barely use that machine anymore. The sheer amount of screen space lost to oversized tab bars, toolbars, and the "double bezel" effect from nested rounded (not in sync) corners is especially painful on a 13" laptop screen.

This is also why I'm staying on Sequoia on my main work machine — a Mac Mini M4 with a 34" ultrawide where I regularly work with 15–20 apps and countless windows side by side. I simply can't afford to lose that much usable space to UI chrome. Buying additional monitors to compensate for bigger toolbars shouldn't be the answer.

To put this in perspective: I've been a Mac user for over 34 years and this is the first time I've ever chosen not to install a macOS update. That should tell you something.

I could adapt to different icons or the Liquid Glass aesthetic — but the loss of functional screen real estate is what's keeping me from adopting Tahoe on the machines I actually depend on.

On a related note, the Phone app on iOS 26 has similar UX issues. The call UI feels inconsistent — sometimes a contact shortcut dials immediately, sometimes you have to tap the phone icon first. During an active call, the interface is genuinely confusing to navigate. For something as fundamental as making a phone call, this inconsistency is frustrating.

A compact UI mode for macOS, or at least an option to reduce toolbar and tab bar sizing, would make a huge difference for power users. And on iOS, the Phone app could really use a UX review focused on consistency and clarity.

Power users are clearly not in Apple's vision anymore.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Great video.

 

[unique-macrumors-user]

To put this in perspective: I've been a Mac user for over 34 years and this is the first time I've ever chosen not to install a macOS update. That should tell you something.

when I was younger, back in the Lion era, I used to live looking forward to the future upgrade which would correct all the bugs I was finding. Now, I dread the next release of a system, because it will render my apps obsolete, incompatible with other machines, or will add bugs I don't want to know about

 

[svenmany]

Power users are clearly not in Apple's vision anymore.

I'm really not sure. I just checked the Terminal app and I see they didn't exaggerate the corner rounding like they did in Safari.

I think Apple is a bit lost. They had some inadequate person at the helm and that person made a mess. That person has now left. I have no idea how much damage we'll see over the years before things get fixed or developers learn hard lessons on what works and what doesn't. What we will see, as applications update to these new designs, is varying levels of success. Most developers are not top notch designers. Apple has handed out powerful tools and poor examples to follow. They've given guns to children.

The damage from Liquid Glass will not be limited to Tahoe. One of my favorite programs is OmniOutliner. If you update to the latest (which has some nice features), you get design changes even if running on Sequoia.

Here's what the prior version looks like.

Now look at the updated version on Sequoia. In this version they've extended both sidebars to the top and moved the title inline with the toolbar. Almost all the toolbar buttons are inaccessible except by using the expander on the right (">>"). You cannot see the full title without hovering over it. (Imagine you have two windows open, each on different versions of the same document, with titles suffixed with "v1" and "v2".)

Why did they do that? I guess that they have some code sharing with the Tahoe version which looks like this.

But even here they can't fit all the buttons. They would have been able to had they not extended the left sidebar to the top. Unrelated to lose of usable space, the left sidebar is problematic whenever I highlight various rows in different colors (I do that all the time to categorize them). The varying colors from different rows make the sidebar hard to see.

I'm still happy with the OmniOutliner upgrade for other reasons and I would still recommend it. Turning off translucency and remembering to collapse the right sidebar helps a ton.

Contrast this update to DEVONthink's update to Liquid Glass. They made choices more tuned to usability. I haven't run it on Sequoia. On Tahoe, you can see the sidebars on both sides do not extend to the top. They have so much more room for the larger Liquid Glass buttons. They also didn't make the sidebars translucent. Or, put another way, the content is just in the middle; it doesn't extend to the areas under the sidebars.

The success of this rollout is discussed on their forums. Even though they rounded the corners, I'm not suffering at all from their update. It really does look great.

 

[CrabQueenInc]

I'm really not sure. I just checked the Terminal app and I see they didn't exaggerate the corner rounding like they did in Safari.

I think Apple is a bit lost. They had some inadequate person at the helm and that person made a mess. That person has now left. I have no idea how much damage we'll see over the years before things get fixed or developers learn hard lessons on what works and what doesn't. What we will see, as applications update to these new designs, is varying levels of success. Most developers are not top notch designers. Apple has handed out powerful tools and poor examples to follow. They've given guns to children.

The damage from Liquid Glass will not be limited to Tahoe. One of my favorite programs is OmniOutliner. If you update to the latest (which has some nice features), you get design changes even if running on Sequoia.

Here's what the prior version looks like.

View attachment 2606415


Now look at the updated version on Sequoia. In this version they've extended both sidebars to the top and moved the title inline with the toolbar. Almost all the toolbar buttons are inaccessible except by using the expander on the right (">>"). You cannot see the full title without hovering over it. (Imagine you have two windows open, each on different versions of the same document, with titles suffixed with "v1" and "v2".)

View attachment 2606416

Why did they do that? I guess that they have some code sharing with the Tahoe version which looks like this.

View attachment 2606418

But even here they can't fit all the buttons. They would have been able to had they not extended the left sidebar to the top. Unrelated to lose of usable space, the left sidebar is problematic whenever I highlight various rows in different colors (I do that all the time to categorize them). The varying colors from different rows make the sidebar hard to see.

I'm still happy with the OmniOutliner upgrade for other reasons and I would still recommend it. Turning off translucency and remembering to collapse the right sidebar helps a ton.

Contrast this update to DEVONthink's update to Liquid Glass. They made choices more tuned to usability. I haven't run it on Sequoia. On Tahoe, you can see the sidebars on both sides do not extend to the top. They have so much more room for the larger Liquid Glass buttons. They also didn't make the sidebars translucent. Or, put another way, the content is just in the middle; it doesn't extend to the areas under the sidebars.

View attachment 2606420

The success of this rollout is discussed on their forums. Even though they rounded the corners, I'm not suffering at all from their update. It really does look great.

Oof. Those changes to OmniOutliner are brutal. Looks like a sandwich.

 

[TumbleDryer]

I'm really not sure. I just checked the Terminal app and I see they didn't exaggerate the corner rounding like they did in Safari.

I think Apple is a bit lost. They had some inadequate person at the helm and that person made a mess. That person has now left. I have no idea how much damage we'll see over the years before things get fixed or developers learn hard lessons on what works and what doesn't. What we will see, as applications update to these new designs, is varying levels of success. Most developers are not top notch designers. Apple has handed out powerful tools and poor examples to follow. They've given guns to children.

The damage from Liquid Glass will not be limited to Tahoe. One of my favorite programs is OmniOutliner. If you update to the latest (which has some nice features), you get design changes even if running on Sequoia.

Here's what the prior version looks like.

View attachment 2606415


Now look at the updated version on Sequoia. In this version they've extended both sidebars to the top and moved the title inline with the toolbar. Almost all the toolbar buttons are inaccessible except by using the expander on the right (">>"). You cannot see the full title without hovering over it. (Imagine you have two windows open, each on different versions of the same document, with titles suffixed with "v1" and "v2".)

View attachment 2606416

Why did they do that? I guess that they have some code sharing with the Tahoe version which looks like this.

View attachment 2606418

But even here they can't fit all the buttons. They would have been able to had they not extended the left sidebar to the top. Unrelated to lose of usable space, the left sidebar is problematic whenever I highlight various rows in different colors (I do that all the time to categorize them). The varying colors from different rows make the sidebar hard to see.

I'm still happy with the OmniOutliner upgrade for other reasons and I would still recommend it. Turning off translucency and remembering to collapse the right sidebar helps a ton.

Contrast this update to DEVONthink's update to Liquid Glass. They made choices more tuned to usability. I haven't run it on Sequoia. On Tahoe, you can see the sidebars on both sides do not extend to the top. They have so much more room for the larger Liquid Glass buttons. They also didn't make the sidebars translucent. Or, put another way, the content is just in the middle; it doesn't extend to the areas under the sidebars.

View attachment 2606420

The success of this rollout is discussed on their forums. Even though they rounded the corners, I'm not suffering at all from their update. It really does look great.

That's a very good post. Especially the bit about poor examples being handed out. You may have seen I posted a couple of design ideas and I also didn't go right to the top with the sidebar 'glass'. In my eyes it's redundant and removed it in later designs but most people are going to try and replicate what Apple have put out like you say i.e. side bars to the top, remove the extremely useful titlebar, and obscure things by having floating icons etc over the content.

I agree DEVONthink's approach is a little less grating to the eyeballs but for me my eye is still drawn to the LiquidGlass bubbles everywhere instead of the content. It's just far too distracting a material to be used for an interface. Look how much the sidebar stands out compared to anything else! Also why is the left side bar a rounded glass sheet but the right sidebar is a frosted pane? (that's on any Tahoe app not just DEVONthink).

For me the biggest mistake Apple has made is removing the titlebar. I work with many windows open and many of the files are named the same apart from the last 3 or 4 digits. I work in RGB and CMYK (sometimes SPOT) so have the same files in all colour spaces. Now with the stupid unified menubar I have to keep stopping and hovering over the menubar to recall which folder I have open - often I have both. If I drop an RGB file into the CMYK workflow and not notice I'm going to have some very angry customers when 50,000 printed brochures turn up and they're all washed out. That's going to cost me a ton of money and future custom.

Of course Apple cannot account for everyone's different workflows but removing incredibly important functional aspects for the sake of prettying things up (not really) or so they match iOS is a very ill thought out.

So for me personally there's two major problems with LiquidGlass. It is making my life more difficult with regards working practices and the overall style regardless of how it functions is ugly to boot. If they used the glass elements in smarter ways they could keep the style and it look better but also return to better function.