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Do you really want the Pro to become Air-ish just yet ?

Y

yly3

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 9, 2011
345
4
I've been for 6 months an Air-only user (both 11/13) and now that I am back with a 13" Pro I've been thinking about it..

While I surely lost the portability (in fact the "special" portability) I am somehow happy with my Pro right now. I am happy that my fans don't run crazy every now and then, I am happy with the more "deep" keyboard and above all, I think I missed the feeling of having a "real machine", similar to the feeling when you're holding a good build phone and not some super ultra slim one.

By no means I'm ditching the Air now, even now I am convinced that it is a wonderful machine, but I don't think it's just ready yet to become a Pro or vice-versa. The heating issues ARE still there, it doesn't run like a toaster but it's still increasing a bit when a Pro doesn't.

I'm not comparing the Air with the Pro. My point is that I am not sure if the Pro is ready yet to be a powerful and slim machine in the same time without worries.. Just look at the 13" 2011 Pro and even the 15" sometimes running significally hot (indeed a lot more compared with the 2010 model).
About the ODD, I don't know about you, but even in a digital-download era, music stores still sell CDs, magazines still ship DVDs, movies are still being released in DVD/BluRay. Sure, in these 6 months I had no need for a disc, not even once, but I am sure it will come someday.. I think, that ODD is maybe technically not needed anymore, but socially there is still demand for it. We can ditch the DVD Home Cinemas this way as well..

And let's face it, in this moment the Pro is still thinner than most (if not all) other notebooks.
 
yly3 said:
I've been for 6 months an Air-only user (both 11/13) and now that I am back with a 13" Pro I've been thinking about it..

While I surely lost the portability (in fact the "special" portability) I am somehow happy with my Pro right now. I am happy that my fans don't run crazy every now and then, I am happy with the more "deep" keyboard and above all, I think I missed the feeling of having a "real machine", similar to the feeling when you're holding a good build phone and not some super ultra slim one.

By no means I'm ditching the Air now, even now I am convinced that it is a wonderful machine, but I don't think it's just ready yet to become a Pro or vice-versa. The heating issues ARE still there, it doesn't run like a toaster but it's still increasing a bit when a Pro doesn't.

I'm not comparing the Air with the Pro. My point is that I am not sure if the Pro is ready yet to be a powerful and slim machine in the same time without worries.. Just look at the 13" 2011 Pro and even the 15" sometimes running significally hot (indeed a lot more compared with the 2010 model).
About the ODD, I don't know about you, but even in a digital-download era, music stores still sell CDs, magazines still ship DVDs, movies are still being released in DVD/BluRay. Sure, in these 6 months I had no need for a disc, not even once, but I am sure it will come someday.. I think, that ODD is maybe technically not needed anymore, but socially there is still demand for it. We can ditch the DVD Home Cinemas this way as well..

And let's face it, in this moment the Pro is still thinner than most (if not all) other notebooks.
Click to expand...


Agreed, I wasn't aware of the lack of keyboard depthness and heat problems, but the people who want 15" mbps generally use their processor power/gpu power so I think that they wouldn't mind having it remain the same thickness. And like you already said, it is the thinnest 15" laptop available.
 
I think making a 15"/17" Laptop an air is not a very good idea...AT ALL!i HOPE what they will do is have the air 15/17" with flash storage and slower speeds so people can still go with the super drive equipped,faster macbook pros
 
1. MBPs don't have heat problems
2. That Superdrive is a waste of space
3. Tried riding a bike around with a 15" MBP
If a laptop is a real "Pro" it has to be portable otherwise forget it and get a Desktop. I can see various things Apple could do to reduce weight and I would find it a blessing!
 
Apple is currently riding the wave of what people like to call it iToys and have finally managed to move even further with that, as in the MacBook Air.
Like I said, while I still love it, I still find the Air as a secondary machine or as a toy. Yes, it can be used as a main machine (especially the 13) with almost no issues. The Air gives me the continuous WOW factor (while it lasts) while the Pro gives me the feeling of a long-run reliable machine.

I don't think Intel or other manufacturers are making hardware in mind for super slim machines. Reality is, the slim machines are still a thing of a luxury and represent a small market right now, it only just "exploded" to moderate success since the 2010 Air (aka competition Samsung) and people are easily finding out that there is an "ideal" machine which can do most their tasks with success. It's something new, that is why I think it's getting mainstream.

I agree that sooner or later MacBook Pros WILL become Airs (size-wise) but if you ask me I doubt the technology to provide the power will be available in less than 4 years, as in the Air becoming a true powerful Pro without any kind of compromise, because like I said, it's not a big interest yet.
 
Macsavvytech said:
1. MBPs don't have heat problems
2. That Superdrive is a waste of space
3. Tried riding a bike around with a 15" MBP
If a laptop is a real "Pro" it has to be portable otherwise forget it and get a Desktop. I can see various things Apple could do to reduce weight and I would find it a blessing!
Click to expand...

The 15inch MBP is the most portable 15ich, dont understand why would you want something even more portable and lighter, unless you are a 9yr old girl who has trouble carrying 5lbs. If you want more portable than the 15inch MBP then you go buy an Air 13, making a super thin 15 inch is pointless.
Anyway i dont think Apple is gonna make a Air 15. THe rumors atate that they are working on a thinner 15inch MBP, not a 15inch MBA. It wont have ULV CPUs, if it does have ULV CPUs then the Pro Moniker is just pointless. It will have no Optical Drive, the ram wont be upgradeable like the MBAs and the storage will be flash based, not exactly SSDs but stuff like the MBA to save space. Basically the laptop will get thinner. If it will exist alongside the current one then it will also loose the GPU.
 
yly3 said:
I've been for 6 months an Air-only user (both 11/13) and now that I am back with a 13" Pro I've been thinking about it..

While I surely lost the portability (in fact the "special" portability) I am somehow happy with my Pro right now. I am happy that my fans don't run crazy every now and then, I am happy with the more "deep" keyboard and above all, I think I missed the feeling of having a "real machine", similar to the feeling when you're holding a good build phone and not some super ultra slim one.

By no means I'm ditching the Air now, even now I am convinced that it is a wonderful machine, but I don't think it's just ready yet to become a Pro or vice-versa. The heating issues ARE still there, it doesn't run like a toaster but it's still increasing a bit when a Pro doesn't.

I'm not comparing the Air with the Pro. My point is that I am not sure if the Pro is ready yet to be a powerful and slim machine in the same time without worries.. Just look at the 13" 2011 Pro and even the 15" sometimes running significally hot (indeed a lot more compared with the 2010 model).
About the ODD, I don't know about you, but even in a digital-download era, music stores still sell CDs, magazines still ship DVDs, movies are still being released in DVD/BluRay. Sure, in these 6 months I had no need for a disc, not even once, but I am sure it will come someday.. I think, that ODD is maybe technically not needed anymore, but socially there is still demand for it. We can ditch the DVD Home Cinemas this way as well..

And let's face it, in this moment the Pro is still thinner than most (if not all) other notebooks.
Click to expand...

Judging by the thread of posts on the news story about a thinner 15" MacBook. Your wasting your time asking that question here.

People on here apparently want a 'PRO' MacBook with soldered RAM, no ODD drive and no ethernet ports and no SD card slots, no display ports. So long as it's thin and light............

Thankfully no one on this site designs Apples computers.
Personally I would accept the loss of the ODD but they would need to keep all the ports, bar the display port as thunderbolt can do that job I think?
but as you said, if people on this site got what they wanted, they would also loose any powerful GPU and CPU as the machine would be too thin, it would be as powerful as a 13" Air but in a 15" form factor and called a Pro and would therefore be a joke of a computer for the money.

I would predict the next MacBook Pro to get a redesign, but it's up to Apple to judge it's market to decide weather or not to keep the ODD. I personally think it will go, but I also think the computer will only be slightly thinner due to this, no where near the Air form factor, it have all the same ports, possibly USB 3, better battery, blade SSD drives as standard, more powerful GPU's and CPU's then the current line up.
 
Macsavvytech said:
1. MBPs don't have heat problems
2. That Superdrive is a waste of space
3. Tried riding a bike around with a 15" MBP
If a laptop is a real "Pro" it has to be portable otherwise forget it and get a Desktop. I can see various things Apple could do to reduce weight and I would find it a blessing!
Click to expand...

Why can't you carry a 15'' laptop? What's wrong with your body?

I honestly don't understand why people claim the Air is SO MUCH more portable than the Pro, you really can't carry a 13'' Pro instead of a 13'' Air? It's that much more troubling? Yes, it's certainly more portable, and makes more sense to purchase an Air if it can handle your tasks and and has what you want in a computer, but when people start arguing flat out or insinuating that it is troubling for them to carry anything else, seriously, man up.

To the OP, do I really want the Pro to become Air-ish just yet? Not just yet, and not ever. While "Air-ish" is subjective at best, it would be ridiculous for all of these laptops to become "super-thin" and sacrifice hardware, media/productivity inputs, and expandability.
 
I would love a 15" MacBook Air-Pro as long as there was no drop in performance or battery life compared to the previous model. There is a high likelihood that Apple will remove the SuperDrive in the next generation of MacBook Pros. If they're willing to make an ODD-less desktop, then they sure as hell are willing to make all of their laptops ODD-less. The SuperDrive takes up a substantial bit of space that could be used to fit other components. Also, it has been a few years since the case was redesigned. There is a real possibility that the next MacBook Pros will be slimmer.
 
kanit said:
The 15inch MBP is the most portable 15ich, dont understand why would you want something even more portable and lighter, unless you are a 9yr old girl who has trouble carrying 5lbs. If you want more portable than the 15inch MBP then you go buy an Air 13, making a super thin 15 inch is pointless.
Anyway i dont think Apple is gonna make a Air 15. THe rumors atate that they are working on a thinner 15inch MBP, not a 15inch MBA. It wont have ULV CPUs, if it does have ULV CPUs then the Pro Moniker is just pointless. It will have no Optical Drive, the ram wont be upgradeable like the MBAs and the storage will be flash based, not exactly SSDs but stuff like the MBA to save space. Basically the laptop will get thinner. If it will exist alongside the current one then it will also loose the GPU.
Click to expand...

I don't know what all this nonsense is about the superdrive being a useless waste of space. I use mine extensively for watching netflix and red box DvD's. I think TV's are useless these days though especially when I can just get a big monitor and plug the cable/satellite tuner into my laptop. Just my $.02
 
Well, if you correctly use your MBP as a MBP, its more like a portable workstation than a iPad-like textbook. While traveling, I like to feel that I am using a powerhorse rather than a toy. If Apple ever decide to bring the MBP to the MBA form-factor, many people will wait until they can match the performance of a Full-size laptop...
 
No. It just seems to me they might do this to the Pro just for the sake of doing it...
 
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pro size is fine. i want more power, better specs, etc. nothing wrong with the air, but i don't want a watered down computer that isn't upgadable. apple could start with a quad core option for the 13"!
 
I don't think the technology is in place just yet to cram all the power and utility of the 15/17 inch pro into an "air" type body without serious compromises....and any compromises in the power and utility of the "pro" line for the sake of portability and aesthetics defeats the purpose of the pro.

Even by taking the optical drive out of the design, they'd be hard pressed to put a worthwhile discrete video card into an ultra-slim body. Not sure there's a quad-core processor out there either they can shove into a ultra-slim body either. We will probably see powerful processors and video cards in ultra-slim bodies sometime within the next 3 years, but the components don't exist in the market right now to build a laptop that is both powerful and ultra-slim. The closest so far is probably the Sony Vaio Z, however, it relies on an external video card....Its possible the 15" air may go this route, but I still don't think that's a solution for most people who need a lot of GPU/CPU power. You're also looking at a huge price premium going this route. Apple products are by no means cheap, but look at the cost of the Vaio Z!

Oh and anyone who says the 15" pro is not really portable is out of their minds. Sure its heavier than the air, but so are most text books, and the huge accordion files of paperwork I regularly carry in my bag when bringing work home. 5.6 pounds is not THAT heavy.
 
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Yes, I want it to become Air-ish. No optical drive and tapered design. I feel the first ones out of the gate won't have soldered on RAM or lack a 2.5-inch hard drive. They'll just be thinner at first.
 
I can't believe people are complaining about the weight of the current macbooks.

None of you remember lugging around a 10lb 17in laptop and a 5lb power brick?

The current macbook weight is a dream come true compared to the majority of computers just two years ago.
 
Personally, I am not a huge fan of the air. I can appreciate its portability, but the design and feel just isn't what I'm after. I like a solid feeling machine.

With that being said, I think we are all just opposed to change. I'm sure if you made this thread about the black bezel when it was first being introduced people would say they don't want the black bezel, but now its the most popular model.

If the Macbook Pro comes out in an air format, after a year we will be cursing the big size of the current Macbook Pro :p
 
i think it is pretty unlikely that i would by an air-ish mbp. the optical drive doesn't rank terribly high on my list of priorities, but things like a quad core, 8gb+ ram, and a hdd are all features i think ought to be standard on the pros.

you just aren't going to get power in a slim body, and i could not care less about portability, so apple would basically be asking me to pay more money for less computer (underpowered processor, fewer cores, no optical drive, etc.). frankly, i don't really get this obsession with thin. for the mba, yes. the ipad, yes. not the mbp.
 
obviously a portable machine shouldn't be any bigger or heavier than it *needs* to be, so if tech progresses to a point where they can fit mbp level processors into a thinner/lighter body, then by all means.

that said, if you can deliver a substantially more powerful machine by keeping the current mbp form factor (which itself already represents an very reasonable compromise between size and power), why wouldn't you? especially when you are already offering a trimmed down alternative for those who crave portability above all else?

what really confuses me is, when we already have both options available, why would anyone argue that one line should essentially be absorbed into the other if comes at the cost of the benefit that either line offers.

and if you're going to make the extreme argument of "get a desktop if anything other than portability matters to you", you're already contradicting yourself hoping for a 15" or 17" air. or asking for airs at all, for that matter. obviously the only two choices should be a 27" imac (or larger, should apple get into the tv business), or an ipad. oh you need a little more functionality on the go than the ipad offers? now you just sound like those whiny mbp users ;)
 
Inopia-Vi said:
If Apple ever decide to bring the MBP to the MBA form-factor, many people will wait until they can match the performance of a Full-size laptop...
Click to expand...
That will never happen so long as we're using conventional electronic components and chemical batteries. Some not-so-minor issues with physics and all...
 
Not so sure about 17 inch MBA. 15 inch MBA is something that I am interested in. I do not think it will be as thin as MBA, but apple can definitely improve some designs on current MBP.

The edges are so sharp.
Optical Drive out, please.
HDD needs to go away. MBA destroys MBP in speed.
Make it lighter and thinner.
 
Macsavvytech said:
1. MBPs don't have heat problems
2. That Superdrive is a waste of space
3. Tried riding a bike around with a 15" MBP
If a laptop is a real "Pro" it has to be portable otherwise forget it and get a Desktop. I can see various things Apple could do to reduce weight and I would find it a blessing!
Click to expand...

1. That's not a problem, that's a good thing
2. I use the SuperDrive all the time to rip music at lossless quality
3. If you can't bike with a 15" on your back then you must be riding a unicycle

What real pros need is a full-featured laptop. Apple offers just that, in a super-thin, super-light package. I love the MBP 15" the way it is right now.

Also, what's the only positive things about MacBook Pros becoming more Air-like? It's thin and light.
In exchange, you get:
a. Heat problems
b. Lack of upgradeability
c. No optical drive
d. No hard drive (hence lower storage capacities)
e. Shorter battery life
f. If you want to counterbalance the battery life, then ULV or dual-core processors
g. No dedicated graphics processor
h. Support for only one external display
i. Loss of FW800 port (extremely important to A/V enthusiasts and photographers)
j. Loss of Ethernet
k. Loss of dedicated audio in and out jacks
l. No glossy screen (some people prefer the wide gamut and contrast of glossy over the antiglare)
m. Loss of battery indicator on side
n. Slower SSD than what you would get with an OCZ Vertex 3, for example
o. Diminutive RAM capacities
p. Lower quality speakers
q. Shorter product lifespan (hardware becomes outdated quickly)
r. No magnetic latch
s. Keyboard loses depth
t. Reduced Thunderbolt throughput
u. No Kensington lock hole (the hole next to the ODD)
v. Pentalobe screws
w. Little to no user serviceable parts
x. More fragile computer
y. USB 2.0 adaptors for ports you don't have (a.k.a. loss of speed & more dongles)
z. Lower resolution camera, if I'm not mistaken

If you want the 13" MBP to be like the Air, then go buy the 13" MBA...
Also, for the 17", loss of ExpressCard/34

Point made? I think so.
 
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People who complain about the MBP being to heavy to carry around are probably the same ones that complain that the "sharp" edges on the iPhone 4 hurt their hands.
 
The only time I'd prefer to see the MBP become as thin or nearly like the MBA is if they could fit the same type of quality in part for part without jeopardizing the performance or lifespan. I personally can't see them ever being as thin as an MBA, I doubt it's possible and it wouldn't make sense other then price range. If I had the choice between a MBP with it's current high-end components and performance that had the same dimensions as an MBA, I don't think there would be much point to looking at a standard MBA at all, unless I couldn't afford the MBP and had to settle with the MBA.

MBA is what it is for a reason, same with the MBP. Of course I think they could make some small changes to the MBP to maybe reduce size but it wouldn't be dramatic changes. I personally, like most people who own an MBP, have no problem with its size. I don't understand how people find 5lbs so difficult to carry. But I digress, I am more than content with the current MBP and patiently await the next redesigned innovation.
 
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