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Do you really want the Pro to become Air-ish just yet ?

Prodo123 said:
1. That's not a problem, that's a good thing
2. I use the SuperDrive all the time to rip music at lossless quality
3. If you can't bike with a 15" on your back then you must be riding a unicycle

What real pros need is a full-featured laptop. Apple offers just that, in a super-thin, super-light package. I love the MBP 15" the way it is right now.

Also, what's the only positive things about MacBook Pros becoming more Air-like? It's thin and light.
In exchange, you get:
a. Heat problems
b. Lack of upgradeability
c. No optical drive
d. No hard drive (hence lower storage capacities)
e. Shorter battery life
f. If you want to counterbalance the battery life, then ULV or dual-core processors
g. No dedicated graphics processor
h. Support for only one external display
i. Loss of FW800 port (extremely important to A/V enthusiasts and photographers)
j. Loss of Ethernet
k. Loss of dedicated audio in and out jacks
l. No glossy screen (some people prefer the wide gamut and contrast of glossy over the antiglare)
m. Loss of battery indicator on side
n. Slower SSD than what you would get with an OCZ Vertex 3, for example
o. Diminutive RAM capacities
p. Lower quality speakers
q. Shorter product lifespan (hardware becomes outdated quickly)
r. No magnetic latch
s. Keyboard loses depth
t. Reduced Thunderbolt throughput
u. No Kensington lock hole (the hole next to the ODD)
v. Pentalobe screws
w. Little to no user serviceable parts
x. More fragile computer
y. USB 2.0 adaptors for ports you don't have (a.k.a. loss of speed & more dongles)
z. Lower resolution camera, if I'm not mistaken

If you want the 13" MBP to be like the Air, then go buy the 13" MBA...
Also, for the 17", loss of ExpressCard/34

Point made? I think so.
Click to expand...

But what if they offered blade SSD as an option with a 2.5" drive as an option? Like the iMac setup?
But even so, if they offer blade SSD running at say 300mbps or faster for read and write up to 512gb in size, is anyone really going to complain?
I think it will loose the ODD and go thinner, but not by much. It doesn't need to be tear shaped for instance.
 
yes. I think the air and pro will and should be scrapped all together and all macbook laptops take the form of the current air. all from 11" to the 17". it's not a question of if you guys like it or want it yet, it WILL happen and like it or not you and everyone else WILL buy it. so stop complaining you nancys. I embrace new technology, not bish and whine about it
 
Prodo123 said:
1. That's not a problem, that's a good thing
2. I use the SuperDrive all the time to rip music at lossless quality
3. If you can't bike with a 15" on your back then you must be riding a unicycle

What real pros need is a full-featured laptop. Apple offers just that, in a super-thin, super-light package. I love the MBP 15" the way it is right now.

Also, what's the only positive things about MacBook Pros becoming more Air-like? It's thin and light.
In exchange, you get:
a. Heat problems
b. Lack of upgradeability
c. No optical drive
d. No hard drive (hence lower storage capacities)
e. Shorter battery life
f. If you want to counterbalance the battery life, then ULV or dual-core processors
g. No dedicated graphics processor
h. Support for only one external display
i. Loss of FW800 port (extremely important to A/V enthusiasts and photographers)
j. Loss of Ethernet
k. Loss of dedicated audio in and out jacks
l. No glossy screen (some people prefer the wide gamut and contrast of glossy over the antiglare)
m. Loss of battery indicator on side
n. Slower SSD than what you would get with an OCZ Vertex 3, for example
o. Diminutive RAM capacities
p. Lower quality speakers
q. Shorter product lifespan (hardware becomes outdated quickly)
r. No magnetic latch
s. Keyboard loses depth
t. Reduced Thunderbolt throughput
u. No Kensington lock hole (the hole next to the ODD)
v. Pentalobe screws
w. Little to no user serviceable parts
x. More fragile computer
y. USB 2.0 adaptors for ports you don't have (a.k.a. loss of speed & more dongles)
z. Lower resolution camera, if I'm not mistaken

If you want the 13" MBP to be like the Air, then go buy the 13" MBA...
Also, for the 17", loss of ExpressCard/34

Point made? I think so.
Click to expand...
You're assuming that if Apple makes the 15" MacBook Pro Air-like it will be just like a 13" MacBook Air, but with a 15" display. There is absolutely no reason to believe this will be the case. I doubt if Apple would short change MBP users only for portability's sake. You're right that there wouldn't be an ODD and that upgradability (for RAM, anyways, since you can upgrade a blade SSD) would be limited. However, everything you've stated about the processor, ports, battery life, external displays, camera, keyboard, magnetic latch, and so on is speculation. Apple has done some pretty amazing things with their hardware in the past. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, you might be entirely correct. I simply don't think that we can assume a 15" MacBook Pro-Air would be exactly like the current 13" Air.
 
The rumors that state the Pro is going to morph to an Air'ish style doesn't mean the hardware or performance is going to change or be limited.

Apple already has a big head start on other laptop vendors in terms of design.

However, the Dell xps 15z is creeping up. It's not about being just thin and light.

Apple simply wants to make the Unibody tapered toward the keyboard.

Other than that, it's probably going not going to change very much and I highly doubt any significant space will be lost.

If Apple really wanted to Pioneer something new aside from Design + Ivy Bridge in the 2012 MPBs they need to do any of the following:
  • Remove Superdrive (include Externat) and go with 128GB SSD + 750GB 5400 RPD HD
  • OR keep Superdrive, but include standard 256GB SSDs as standard in the Base Models of atleast the 15 & 17 MBPs
  • Include High End GPU on Non Base 15
  • 1680 x 1050 (Base) and Upgradable to 1920 x 1200 Screens

Imagine a $1799 MPB with the following features:
  • Ivy Bridge CPU (20% faster than the 2.2SB i7 and cooler temps)
  • 4GB RAM
  • 30% Faster Base GPU
  • Standard 128GB SSD

And a $2199 MPB with the following features:
  • Ivy Bridge CPU (20 to 30% faster than the 2.2SB i7 and cooler temps)
  • 8GB RAM
  • 30% Faster GPU than the Radeon 6750M
  • Standard 1680 x 1050 ($150 Upgrade to 1920 x 1200 High Res)
 
apolloa said:
But what if they offered blade SSD as an option with a 2.5" drive as an option? Like the iMac setup?
But even so, if they offer blade SSD running at say 300mbps or faster for read and write up to 512gb in size, is anyone really going to complain?
I think it will loose the ODD and go thinner, but not by much. It doesn't need to be tear shaped for instance.
Click to expand...

Nielsenius said:
You're assuming that if Apple makes the 15" MacBook Pro Air-like it will be just like a 13" MacBook Air, but with a 15" display. There is absolutely no reason to believe this will be the case. I doubt if Apple would short change MBP users only for portability's sake. You're right that there wouldn't be an ODD and that upgradability (for RAM, anyways, since you can upgrade a blade SSD) would be limited. However, everything you've stated about the processor, ports, battery life, external displays, camera, keyboard, magnetic latch, and so on is speculation. Apple has done some pretty amazing things with their hardware in the past. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, you might be entirely correct. I simply don't think that we can assume a 15" MacBook Pro-Air would be exactly like the current 13" Air.
Click to expand...

First off, the MBA blades have on average 240MB/s R/W. My Seagate Momentus XT can pull up to 300MB/s, averages 120MB/s, and it's a 500GB platter. The Vertex 3 can do upwards of 500MB/s. TBH my MacBook Pro has the "instant wake" thing that makes the Air so special, due to my hard drive.

And yes, it is all speculation. But if Apple does make the MacBook Pro more like the Air, then they might as well combine the two into one product line, like what they did with the 13" aluminum MacBook. Which means all of the things I stated will have to be done in order to give the product line some uniformity.
 
Geez, I can't believe so many dislike optical drives. I, for one, still use it on a regular basis for ripping CDs, burning CD/DVDs, movies on the go, etc. Instead of ditching it, I would like Apple to toss in a blu-ray drive.
 
Prodo123 said:
First off, the MBA blades have on average 240MB/s R/W. My Seagate Momentus XT can pull up to 300MB/s, averages 120MB/s, and it's a 500GB platter. The Vertex 3 can do upwards of 500MB/s. TBH my MacBook Pro has the "instant wake" thing that makes the Air so special, due to my hard drive.

And yes, it is all speculation. But if Apple does make the MacBook Pro more like the Air, then they might as well combine the two into one product line, like what they did with the 13" aluminum MacBook. Which means all of the things I stated will have to be done in order to give the product line some uniformity.
Click to expand...
Yes, the blade SSDs that Apple ships aren't the greatest. However, Apple isn't known to provide the fastest SSDs. Most users looking for a fast hard drive are going to buy third party, as both of us have done. OWC offers blade SSDs with a max of 285MB/s read and 275MB/s write.

If Apple consolidates their notebooks into a single line, I wouldn't assume that they are intent on uniformity. There are currently many differences between various models in each of their product lines. The 13" MBP is significantly less well equipped in comparison to the 15" MBP. The 17" MBP has more ports than the 15" MBP. The 21.5" iMac and the 27" iMac have different specs. There will always be differences between Apple computers even if they belong to the same product line.
 
Macsavvytech said:
1. MBPs don't have heat problems
2. That Superdrive is a waste of space
3. Tried riding a bike around with a 15" MBP
If a laptop is a real "Pro" it has to be portable otherwise forget it and get a Desktop. I can see various things Apple could do to reduce weight and I would find it a blessing!
Click to expand...


hmmm

2. I use my super drive still for back ups, some clients still demand a cd,dvd to hold files.
3. I mean if a 15'' is too heavy while biking a air prob be better? And I think it being to heavy would be least of my concerns while biking falling? getting hit? ect..

I believe the pro is a "pro" for myself at least and I utilize a great deal of the computers power everyday and am still fine.
 
Nielsenius said:
Yes, the blade SSDs that Apple ships aren't the greatest. However, Apple isn't known to provide the fastest SSDs. Most users looking for a fast hard drive are going to buy third party, as both of us have done. OWC offers blade SSDs with a max of 285MB/s read and 275MB/s write.

If Apple consolidates their notebooks into a single line, I wouldn't assume that they are intent on uniformity. There are currently many differences between various models in each of their product lines. The 13" MBP is significantly less well equipped in comparison to the 15" MBP. The 17" MBP has more ports than the 15" MBP. The 21.5" iMac and the 27" iMac have different specs. There will always be differences between Apple computers even if they belong to the same product line.
Click to expand...

The 13" MBP is less powerful due to its size. It's a physical limitation. Any beefier specs and the laptop overheats. They stuck more ports on the 17" because they have space to kill. I mean, who uses ExpressCard/34 anymore?
Those variations are all based on physical limits. Since the physical limits on the MacBook Airs are practically the same, you can expect all of the MacBook Air-like computers to have similar characteristics and specs.

And, the iMacs all have similar hardware. AMD graphics and a quad-core CPU. No significant differences, just minimal variation.

hcho3 said:
The edges are so sharp. Make it lighter and thinner.
Click to expand...

I lol'd
 
Prodo123 said:
First off, the MBA blades have on average 240MB/s R/W. My Seagate Momentus XT can pull up to 300MB/s, averages 120MB/s, and it's a 500GB platter. The Vertex 3 can do upwards of 500MB/s. TBH my MacBook Pro has the "instant wake" thing that makes the Air so special, due to my hard drive.
Click to expand...

But I stated if the blade SSD's ran at around 300mbps, no reason for them not to as they just need to develop the tech, and the Crucial M4 has an official up to 260mbs write and up to 415mbs read yet no one says it is slow at writing? And a blade SSD can write at the same speed.
 
apolloa said:
But I stated if the blade SSD's ran at around 300mbps, no reason for them not to as they just need to develop the tech, and the Crucial M4 has an official up to 260mbs write and up to 415mbs read yet no one says it is slow at writing? And a blade SSD can write at the same speed.
Click to expand...

But I also stated it's $1400 already. For the blades to get as cheap as the 2.5" drives, it's going to take a couple years. Until then, it's just more worth it getting a MBP with a Vertex 3 or Crucial M4.
 
Ijustfarted said:
yes. I think the air and pro will and should be scrapped all together and all macbook laptops take the form of the current air. all from 11" to the 17". it's not a question of if you guys like it or want it yet, it WILL happen and like it or not you and everyone else WILL buy it. so stop complaining you nancys. I embrace new technology, not bish and whine about it
Click to expand...

It won't happen for at least another 2 years. There aren't any quad-core processors or discrete video cards that would fit in an ultra-thin chassis that would make a true Macbook Pro - Air possible. All of the ultra portables hitting the market right now are running dual core i7's at best, with integrated graphics cards, and there's no indication that anything much more powerful that that is in the works.

Perhaps they can ditch the optical drive to save room, but anyone who's ever opened up a macbook pro can attest that even without the optical drive, there isn't much room to reduce the thickness of the laptop without taking a lot of the hardware out. The fans alone make this impossible, and the fans are very much necessary given the amount of heat that discrete GPU's put out when strained.

The Pros are overdue for a redesign, and one is on the way....but unless Apple were to significantly strip the Pro's of the key hardware that grants them the "pro" monicker, there's no way they'll be anywhere near as thin as the air. I agree that one day the Pro's will likely take on the form factor of the air....but the technology is not in place for this to happen anytime soon.
 
Prodo123 said:
But I also stated it's $1400 already. For the blades to get as cheap as the 2.5" drives, it's going to take a couple years. Until then, it's just more worth it getting a MBP with a Vertex 3 or Crucial M4.
Click to expand...

Well the 256GB blade from Apple is half the cost of the SSD equivalent. I just hope they do offer up to 512GB blades in the next pro. Can't see why not, plus possibly the option for a standard drive, if they drop the ODD.
 
apolloa said:
Well the 256GB blade from Apple is half the cost of the SSD equivalent. I just hope they do offer up to 512GB blades in the next pro. Can't see why not, plus possibly the option for a standard drive, if they drop the ODD.
Click to expand...

Also it's half the performance of the SSD equivalent...
See where this is going?
 
Currently the air will replace the normal macbooks, and if i remember there used to be an ibook 15" too. Nice screen estate, not too much power.

Macbook pro is for more power users. Assuming one will replace the other is atleast 16 months too early which means forever in it land.
 
Prodo123 said:
Also it's half the performance of the SSD equivalent...
See where this is going?
Click to expand...

It's going towards Apple offering SSD blades in the new MacBook Pro's as they offer the best price versus performance currently available. I would much rather pay for a Blade SSD costing half the price of a 2.5" SSD as it has been stated many many many times on here, in real world instances you won't notice the speed difference with Sata 2 and Sata 3 even.
 
Last edited:
Archlord said:
Why can't you carry a 15'' laptop? What's wrong with your body?

I honestly don't understand why people claim the Air is SO MUCH more portable than the Pro, you really can't carry a 13'' Pro instead of a 13'' Air? It's that much more troubling? Yes, it's certainly more portable, and makes more sense to purchase an Air if it can handle your tasks and and has what you want in a computer, but when people start arguing flat out or insinuating that it is troubling for them to carry anything else, seriously, man up.

To the OP, do I really want the Pro to become Air-ish just yet? Not just yet, and not ever. While "Air-ish" is subjective at best, it would be ridiculous for all of these laptops to become "super-thin" and sacrifice hardware, media/productivity inputs, and expandability.
Click to expand...
Wow you people take things to far. I make websites and often find myself riding( My preferred method of transport) to clients or just general movement around town with my 15" MBP in the back. I personally would love the MacBook Pro to be a bit lighter it's not a problem and heck you would be hard pressed to find a thinner lighter 15" laptop, but I wish atleast Apple could do something with the space wasted by the Optical Drive, be it make it lighter or put a bigger CPU, GPU, or battery. If you have ever taken a MacBook Pro apart you would also understand that even without removig things Apple could compress the design a little bit. No complaints but a revised 15" MacBook Pro would be nice
apolloa said:
If your such a woos why don't you get a car then?
Click to expand...
Saving the environment and all?
Prodo123 said:
1. That's not a problem, that's a good thing
2. I use the SuperDrive all the time to rip music at lossless quality
3. If you can't bike with a 15" on your back then you must be riding a unicycle

What real pros need is a full-featured laptop. Apple offers just that, in a super-thin, super-light package. I love the MBP 15" the way it is right now.

Also, what's the only positive things about MacBook Pros becoming more Air-like? It's thin and light.
In exchange, you get:
a. Heat problems
b. Lack of upgradeability
c. No optical drive
d. No hard drive (hence lower storage capacities)
e. Shorter battery life
f. If you want to counterbalance the battery life, then ULV or dual-core processors
g. No dedicated graphics processor
h. Support for only one external display
i. Loss of FW800 port (extremely important to A/V enthusiasts and photographers)
j. Loss of Ethernet
k. Loss of dedicated audio in and out jacks
l. No glossy screen (some people prefer the wide gamut and contrast of glossy over the antiglare)
m. Loss of battery indicator on side
n. Slower SSD than what you would get with an OCZ Vertex 3, for example
o. Diminutive RAM capacities
p. Lower quality speakers
q. Shorter product lifespan (hardware becomes outdated quickly)
r. No magnetic latch
s. Keyboard loses depth
t. Reduced Thunderbolt throughput
u. No Kensington lock hole (the hole next to the ODD)
v. Pentalobe screws
w. Little to no user serviceable parts
x. More fragile computer
y. USB 2.0 adaptors for ports you don't have (a.k.a. loss of speed & more dongles)
z. Lower resolution camera, if I'm not mistaken

If you want the 13" MBP to be like the Air, then go buy the 13" MBA...
Also, for the 17", loss of ExpressCard/34

Point made? I think so.
Click to expand...
I think to some extent we disagree, Apple waste space in the unibody design, they could make it thinner so why don't they? That's really my only point. Also I can ride just fine with my laptop but less weight is always a nice thing.
 
Last edited:
Macsavvytech said:
Wow you people take things to far. I make websites and often find myself riding( My preferred method of transport) to clients or just general movement around town with my 15" MBP in the back. I personally would love the MacBook Pro to be a bit lighter it's not a problem and heck you would be hard pressed to find a thinner lighter 15" laptop, but I wish atleast Apple could do something with the space wasted by the Optical Drive, be it make it lighter or put a bigger CPU, GPU, or battery. If you have ever taken a MacBook Pro apart you would also understand that even without removig things Apple could compress the design a little bit. No complaints but a revised 15" MacBook Pro would be nice
Saving the environment and all?
Click to expand...

They can't compress it much though as the discrete GPU and the powerful CPU all produce heat and it needs two fans to help get rid of that. Those fans take up a lot of room but I would much rather keep them as they are as they are quiet.
But if the ODD went they could maybe reduce the overall size as looking at the bezel it is pretty big. That would save some weight.
As for saving the environment? Get a Prius then.. or a Diesel which is more efficient then a Prius.
 
apolloa said:
They can't compress it much though as the discrete GPU and the powerful CPU all produce heat and it needs two fans to help get rid of that. Those fans take up a lot of room but I would much rather keep them as they are as they are quiet.
But if the ODD went they could maybe reduce the overall size as looking at the bezel it is pretty big. That would save some weight.
Click to expand...

If Apple learnt how to Apply Thermal Paste it wouldn't even be a n issue whatsoever ever. My I have never been able to get my MBP over 90C and I live in the tropics. All because I did my own thermal paste, also the idea that somehow compressing the case is going to increase the heat is obsurd do you even know where the air flows through a MBP? Even if this was an issue I m sure in a case redisgn fans would be moved anyway prabably lroviding better cooling.
 
i think (as the original poster said) that despite all of the hype about the new air (much of it deserved), the macbook pro as a slightly overweight member of the family still has value.

airish (to me) suggests some kind of thin device that emphasizes portability over power. i don't think anyone is against making it thinner or lighter. i am certainly not. i just don't want them to sacrifice performance.

in some of the threads, perhaps propelled by euphoria over the air, posters seem to be yearning for an airish macbook pro. the 13" seems to get picked on the most as the runt of the litter. i am glad the op made this thread to help remind us why that air form factor isn't necessarily good for everyone.

hopefully, someone at apple is reading this and doesn't try to sacrifice the pro line like they did the macbook :(
 
I find it disgusting when people think that a thin design equates to progress. It's not an improvement, it's just different.
 
The optical drive should go. It's rarely used and when it is, you can just use an external one. I'd much rather see the optical drive replaced by Air-like SSD and a discrete graphics card on the 13" and maybe bigger SSD and some more battery on the 15".

I don't want to see ports being sacrificed until they cram several Thunderbolt ports in there that can be adapted to be display outputs or FireWire/USB ports with adapters.

If in the process it ends up being a bit thinner and lighter that's great, but it should not be a big goal. It's not like the current MBPs excluding the 17" are that big to haul around.
 
I've been suggesting that they remove the optical drive for a long time now, other than that, I want it to be as air-ish as possible. Not everybody needs a laptop that is small and light, I just need one that I have the option of moving a few times a week and I know a lot of other people have the same requirement.

If a laptop that is not a designated ultraportable doesn't have enough space for the ports that a regular user uses, that's going too far IMO. So no, please don't make the Pro any thinner.

I don't think there's any need to merge the two product lines. The Air can stay the way it is and so can the Pro.
 
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