Do you think that by not including chargers in the box, Apple is setting people up to problems?(because people are still using no-name USB-C chargers)

That an interesting sentiment when it comes to those who don't any USB-C power adapters or USB-A to Lightning cables.
True, I'm sure there are a small number of first time iPhone buyers that don't have a USB-A to lightning cable. They are in the extreme minority though and probably less likely to be upset about this than the more vocal repeat buyers.

Apple also has a history of eliminating "standard" features (floppy drives, cd drives, audio jacks, USB-A ports, etc.) so I don't see how this is different. Apple is simply pushing the market like it ALWAYS has. In this case, I would say they are late to the game as just about every other Tier 1 brand has been using USB-C for a while.

Although I have dozens of USB-A to lightning cables and bricks, I had no USB-C brick. My wireless charger doesn't work with my new iPhone either. Progress isn't cheap.
 
Apple is simply pushing the market like it ALWAYS has.
It's easy to push the market when it not only doesn't cost anything to you but also saves you money and even makes more money in addition through some additional accessory sales (while the burden of that "push" is shifted onto someone else).

At least at times in the past Apple actually took consumers a bit more into consideration like when the headphone jack was removed, not only were new headphones included but even an adapter to make old headphones work was included too.
 
I think including a cable that will not work with a majority of the prior bricks was a bit ridiculous.

If they had not included that, I think people would still be upset but it wouldn't be so confusing. They get out a brick and realise hey! This is USB-C! It doesn't work!

I think a lot of third party sellers are going to benefit and who knows how this will affect the batteries health in the long haul.
 
The premise of the title of the thread? No. Up until now, that people have damaged their charging bricks and needed to buy a new one and may have purchased a third party brick is the same scenario. I believe Apple believes the universe of these people who are totally out of the ecosystem is a small percentage that won't move the needle.

Even if these small percentage are disenfranchised, it is what it is.
 
So why couldn't Apple soften it like they did when they removed the headphone jack and included an adapter on top of new headphones? Why not include the adapter at least for the first year or so when they switch to include a different cable? Seems like all the gains are on Apple's side of things and there isn't much on consumer side and for some there's pain.
The two are not mutually exclusive. This is a problem that's not going to affect everyone, and yes, I acknowledge that it can be frustrating for the people that it does impact, but the gist of arguments like this is that it essentially boils down to people whining that Apple won't give them nice stuff for free.

Because if people are going to posit the inclusion of a usb-c to lightning cable as some sort of conspiracy by Apple to reverse-psycho them into buying a 20w charging brick, then I say maybe subsequent iPhones shouldn't even come with the charging cable at all. Can't complain that you don't have the right brick for it then.

It's clear that this year's iPhone has been more expensive to make, between its new form factor and more costly components like 5g and the OLED display for the base model. Just because Apple is in a position to gain financially from not bundling a charging brick or EarPods doesn't mean that the environmental message doesn't hold water.

First off, I maintain that by between the exclusion of accessories and the lower shipping fees, the iPhone 12 is cheaper than it otherwise would have been. Apple has also lowered the price of the 20w charging brick and EarPods for users who still want one, which shows they are not deaf to the sentiment on the ground.

That said, I do concur that Apple still has a long way to go (its packaging remains wasteful, especially all the included paperwork), iPhone repairability remains difficult, and it doesn't look like the iPhone will support usb-c anytime soon. However, given the scale Apple operates at, even the smallest move ends up having a very huge impact on the environment, and I feel this should be acknowledged. Especially given their very public goal of achieving carbon neutrality by 2030.

Ultimately, Apple is still a publicly-traded company beholden to shareholders, and I think Tim Cook has done an excellent job managing both fronts, ie: simultaneously align the incentives of a profit-maximising corporate entity with the public.

Not to mention that in the process of doing so, Apple has also set the standard for countless other android OEMs to do likewise as well. We can mock Samsung for when they do decide to exclude the charging brick from their next smartphone, but we can't deny that it's a positive step in environmental sustainability, and a net benefit overall. I would really like to see more OEMs jump on board this bandwagon.

But like I said, it's short term pain (for the consumers who need to pony up a little bit of extra cash for extra accessories) for long term gain (better for the environment, the charging brick is there for the next few years, hardware stays affordable, and shareholders don't complain).
 
The two are not mutually exclusive. This is a problem that's not going to affect everyone, and yes, I acknowledge that it can be frustrating for the people that it does impact, but the gist of arguments like this is that it essentially boils down to people whining that Apple won't give them nice stuff for free.
Well, some who might not really are about it might view it that way, while the reality of it is that consumers are no longer getting something that was always part of the purchase and thus getting less than before (in particular when the other connecting piece that is provided is also being changed to something else).
 
Or they can invent biodegradable chargers and iPhones...

Hmm... returning my new iPhone because it unexpectedly biodegraded too early. Standing at the Apple Store insisting that I cannot return it because it disintegrated on me last night while I slept. I demand a refund or replacement. I expected it to last more than a week. Biodegrade-gate starts flooding the Internet.

You know there’d be at least one person try it.
 
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Well, some who might not really are about it might view it that way, while the reality of it is that consumers are no longer getting something that was always part of the purchase and thus getting less than before (in particular when the other connecting piece that is provided is also being changed to something else).
With the number of Apple customers approaching the high hundreds of millions, there are those many different opinions of everything Apple. And of course each customer believes their viewpoint to be correct.
 
Hmm... returning my new iPhone because it unexpectedly biodegraded too early. Standing at the Apple Store insisting that I cannot return it because it disintegrated on me last night while I slept. I demand a refund or replacement. I expected it to last more than a week. Biodegrade-gate starts flooding the Internet.

You know there’d be at least one person try it.

but will it blend?


(caution: some people may find blending of iPhones 12 disturbing)
 
My gf just bought a new iPhone 12 Pro. First iPhone ever. I totally forgot to tell her it comes with literally nothing, so now shes screwed til she can go to walmart or something.

It comes with the most useless cable. Neither of us (or our friends) even own anything with USB C, except android phones themselves and I have an external drive that has it. But, that doesn't help us charge the phone as what the hell am I supposed to plug it into? Another phone? My external drive? Cmon. This is a joke.

She has ZERO lightning cables. I have 3. One each for my daily driven vehicles and one for my actual charger. I have one actual apple charger, only because I bought an iPhone SE last year before this stupid not including anything started. Everybody should be submitting feedback to Apple about this because honestly it's just plain stupid. It isn't greener, the phone is still $1000, and now you need three $20 accessories to be able to even use it.
 
My gf just bought a new iPhone 12 Pro. First iPhone ever. I totally forgot to tell her it comes with literally nothing, so now shes screwed til she can go to walmart or something.

It comes with the most useless cable. Neither of us (or our friends) even own anything with USB C, except android phones themselves and I have an external drive that has it. But, that doesn't help us charge the phone as what the hell am I supposed to plug it into? Another phone? My external drive? Cmon. This is a joke.

She has ZERO lightning cables. I have 3. One each for my daily driven vehicles and one for my actual charger. I have one actual apple charger, only because I bought an iPhone SE last year before this stupid not including anything started. Everybody should be submitting feedback to Apple about this because honestly it's just plain stupid. It isn't greener, the phone is still $1000, and now you need three $20 accessories to be able to even use it.
I agree it's ridiculous not to include a charger.

My suggestion is to buy the Anker 20w charger on Amazon. Right now it's $14.44+tax with a 15% off online coupon.
It works with the included USB-C to lightning cable, and will fast charge the 12 Pro.

Anker is top-quality stuff - I've used it for years.
 
I agree it's ridiculous not to include a charger.

My suggestion is to buy the Anker 20w charger on Amazon. Right now it's $14.44+tax with a 15% off online coupon.
It works with the included USB-C to lightning cable, and will fast charge the 12 Pro.

Anker is top-quality stuff - I've used it for years.
I like Anker too, I’ve got a few batteries from them in the past.
 
I like Anker too, I’ve got a few batteries from them in the past.
Yes it’s 16.99 plus shipping if you don’t have Amazon Prime. It however is not PD v3.0 its Anker’s system of PIQ not PD V3.0 with is the standard that Apple devises are looking for to support USB C quick charge or Qi 15w charging for wireless charging. Oh and the Apple charger is $19.00 US with free shipping from the Apple web site or in store.
 
Yes it’s 16.99 plus shipping if you don’t have Amazon Prime. It however is not PD v3.0 its Anker’s system of PIQ not PD V3.0 with is the standard that Apple devises are looking for to support USB C quick charge or Qi 15w charging for wireless charging. Oh and the Apple charger is $19.00 US with free shipping from the Apple web site or in store.
Using a USB-C to lightning cable, iMazing reports that the Anker charger charges my 12 Pro at 20w 9v until it reaches 80% charge, then shifts down to 15w 5v. What does the Apple charger do differently?
 
Using a USB-C to lightning cable, iMazing reports that the Anker charger charges my 12 Pro at 20w 9v until it reaches 80% charge, then shifts down to 15w 5v. What does the Apple charger do differently?
That’s great that it will charge via lightning at the quick charge rate. Quick charge was also around before PD V3.0 was added to chargers. However it is my understanding that is you want to use Qi charging at 15w it has to be PD V 3.0 and on a 2ow charger, minimum.
 
My gf just bought a new iPhone 12 Pro. First iPhone ever. I totally forgot to tell her it comes with literally nothing, so now shes screwed til she can go to walmart or something.

It comes with the most useless cable. Neither of us (or our friends) even own anything with USB C, except android phones themselves and I have an external drive that has it. But, that doesn't help us charge the phone as what the hell am I supposed to plug it into? Another phone? My external drive? Cmon. This is a joke.

She has ZERO lightning cables. I have 3. One each for my daily driven vehicles and one for my actual charger. I have one actual apple charger, only because I bought an iPhone SE last year before this stupid not including anything started. Everybody should be submitting feedback to Apple about this because honestly it's just plain stupid. It isn't greener, the phone is still $1000, and now you need three $20 accessories to be able to even use it.

Well, sucks for the first time buyer to forget about these things, but honestly I’m glad for any missing plastic crap I have no use for.

The forgetting part happens to all of us at some stage, I regularly forget that certain cars don’t have a spare tire anymore, for example.
 
I haven’t used Apple’s bundled chargers in a long time. Not least because they stuck with the 5w charger for so long that I have since moved on to better alternatives which I hold on to even as I switch devices.

So I am fine with Apple not including chargers because they weren’t giving me more of what I wanted anyways.
 
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