Does a University Degree really matter?

[Fuzzbear]

All i know is, they give a lot of Degrees to a lot of idiots.

The origin of knowledge shouldn't determine its value. Unfortunately it does.

 

[Doctor Q]

I'm speaking only about the places I've worked, but we've had technicians who knew everything about the PC they were ripping apart (we've never once needed a Mac repair in my office!) or the router they were configuring, but the ones who turned out to be most valuable were the ones who could also write precise answers for customers, clear messages to vendors, and intelligible documentation for our staff. Those college general education requirements really do count for something.

 

[ArmyKnight12]

The CEO's ( Dell, Jobs, Gates) without college degrees are the exceptions. All the degree is a piece of a paper that gets you an interview as college has become the new high school.

I love the famous Mark Twain quote: "Don't let school get in the way of your education."

 

[dmr727]

I have two degrees and neither one of them has helped me an ounce when it comes to getting jobs (and I knew this would be the case going in). However college was the best time of my life, and I wouldn't trade the experience for the world.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Sure, there are countless successful people out there who never went to college. There are also countless successful people who did go and earned a degree. As a hiring manager I'll say this. When faced with two applicants with similar qualifications the first person I interview is the one who holds a degree. Of course if both do I look at the degree's relevance in relation to the job they're applying for.

Having a degree does not mean that I would hire you, it simply means that you have proven to me that you can start something that isn't always easy or fun and finish it. It's called a track record.

As a person who holds two degrees I will say this. I am where I am because of my work experience. I did not go to college straight out of high school as I thought I was hot **** earning $1600 a month in my fancy banking job. I later decided to return to school mainly because I am learner by nature and I thought it would be fun. I was right. I believe that today, the position that I hold has nothing to do with me having a degree. However, my mother will say different. She will say that it took her 10+ more years in the same industry to earn what I earn today. While seeking new employment I have found that people inquire first about my degree and second about my experience.

A degree is no match for work experience. However, when looking at jobs where they want 10 years of experience in a related filed and I only have 5, my degree somehow offsets what I lack in work experience. It offsets it, it doesn't completely rule out the need for such experience.

I will also say this. I know plenty of people who carry two Master's degrees who are and have been unemployed for 6-12 months. Sad but true. Their fancy degrees didn't save them from a layoff nor did it land them a great job.

I say go to school, earn your degree. It's the one thing that no one can take from you. If you do not you will indeed be a success in whatever you do if you work hard enough. I just believe your earning potential can be hindered without the degree as they'll look for more years work experience than necessary. If you want to teach, be a doctor, go into any like field you need a degree.

To the OP, define success. To me success can be going to school to earn whatever degree I need to teach. I'll make less than what I am worth but I'll be successful because I'm doing what I love. Alternatively, success can be landing a job paying $150k a year without having to be an executive (read: fall-guy) and having all the lavish BS material items that I could possibly want.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

In the end there's no difference between a community college education and Ivy league other than the class of friends you hang out with.

I completely disagree. I've taken classes at both a Community College and a small private university and they are night and day. Almost all of my professors at the University have a Ph. D and have been researching, working, or studying their fields for years while my Community College professors tended to be either really old professors with a Masters that should be retired or really young, fresh outta the MS program professors. The knowledge level among the professors really differed. Thats not to mention grading, its an absolute joke at the CC, I know professors who allow students to turn poems in for extra credit in non-composition classes, are we still in high school here (shouldn't say that, since 1/4 of the students there are still in high school). Thats why I take all my difficult math classes that I'm not as suited towards there, so much easier to get an A. The Community College district I'm in is supposed to be one of the best around, but even the few "smart" friends I know that had to go there because of money admit its a joke. Something like 20% of the students actually end up making it to a four year program, thats not respectable when the main goal of the school is to be a feeder into top UC programs. I could have gone to the CC and saved about $45,000, but from my experiences there, it definitely was worth the extra money to go to a real university and not an extension of high school.

Don't even get me started on administration or "counseling" at the community college, its like going the freaking DMV. The least they could do is be nice to me, my taxes and tuition and student fees pay their salaries. At the private university however, the level of service and the manner students are treated with when obtain them is/was about a million times better (although things to cost more, $5 for a transcript? geez, its just a sheet of paper with a stamp on it).

I supposed Community Colleges would be good if they were used the way the were intended, as ways to save money before transferring to a university and if high school students didn't use it as an excuse for doing poorly in high school. I'm all for affordable schooling for those who can't pay for private colleges or state schools right away, but there really should be some entrance requirements at Community Colleges to force high school students to actually care (who knows if that would actually work anyway though).

Honestly, you need a college degree now days (even if you have to go to community college :shudders: first, it is definitely worth it). You will be restricted out of so many fields (law, medicine, engineering, accounting ie CPA not bookkeeper) because of it. The four years are fun and really should be mandatory now days. The BS is the new high school diploma or so everyone has been saying.

Just make some connections, thats what its really all about, you want the big bucks you got to buddy up with the people who can give them to you (thank you my lovely career services center!).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

To answer the question of the top YES it does.

While he list a fair number of people who did great with out the degree there are some things that do not lie. The average life time some one makes with a college degree is I believe over 2 times higher than one with out.

They sure as hell make more per year.

2nd that CEO number with out a college degree. Expect it to drop in the coming years as they retire. More and more of the replacements with have a degree. Simple truth to the matter 10-15 years ago a job with just a HS education now requires a college degree to even be considered.

I think it stupid when people point examples like Gates, Dell ect who are at the top with out a degree. Those people are exepctions to the rule. If you look at averages college degree people are general happier, make more money and do better for them selves.

 

[question fear]

If the value of a degree is diluted, it's because it's the new baseline, the way a high school diploma was a generation before. Without it, you're a step behind at the starting line.

I don't even interview people who don't have a Bachelors degree. The value of a degree is less about the particular information they learned while earning the degree, and more about them chosing that path and having proven that they can handle college-level material.

Very well said!

While work experience can equal a college degree, a college degree can be a shortcut. It might take 5-10 years of work experience to get the same level of respect you get from having a degree from a prestigious 4 year university with various jobs and internships sprinkled around.

The advantages to a college education:

-Knowledge base
-Critical learning/studying/information absorption skills
-Ability to gain internships and other "soft" job experience.
-Socialization with peers
-Socialization with superiors (professors, etc)
-Baseline respect level post graduation.

The advantages to work experience:
-More specialized/useful knowledge base
-Ability to network more directly
-Socialization in a work environment
-Skill sets that are directly applicable

The biggest thing is that if you are going into a field that requires experience and skill sets you are more likely to get away without a higher degree. For example, software and hardware engineers are better off using work experience. Teachers, on the other hand, need the broad base of a college degree. It can be argued that business management needs a combination of experience and knowledge to be successful.

Also, looking at the list of people who get away without higher education, those are all people who fit a certain aggressive personality type. These are people who are programmed to network and attempt to succeed, regardless of their education level. So if you're that type of entrepreneurial, intense personality, you're going to go for the brass ring and if an education isn't getting you there fast enough, you're going out on instinct alone. Not everyone has that drive, and that's why education is important.

 

[macwall]

I think the problem is that the standard for graduating high school is set so low as to be completely useless for hiring purposes. If you've only graduated high school, most of the jobs that you can get really only require a junior high education at best. But if you have people at the fifth grade reading level graduating from high school, you can't even trust them to handle simple correspondence.

 

[Hushbull]

It doesn't hurt, that's for sure.

 

[Macaddicttt]

What the OP said is probably true for an MBA, but it definitely isn't true for any other degree, not by a long shot, especially at the better universities.

 

[Grimace]

The folks who dropped out (B. Gates, Harvard; S. Jobs, Reed; M. Dell, UTexas) were almost all highly intelligent individuals who chose not to finish their degrees because they had a chance at something much bigger. Your original question is framed almost as, "should one consider higher education or does it matter?"

There is extensive research from my university that says that on average, having a college degree, with net you $1M more in your lifetime. Health benefits etc. come hand in hand. I can go on if prompted.

The original goal of higher education was to produce graduates who could think in a variety of dynamic ways that would be applicable to almost any situation. Specific tangible skills were secondary. We call this the liberal arts.

Many schools are moving toward area-specific degrees for undergraduate work because competition (overpopulation) in higher education demands that graduates be able to demonstrate what they know. It is not enough anymore to be an educated citizen anymore. Business, communications, finance - are all on the rise because the immediate job market makes Sociology majors gamble on getting a job in consulting. The divide is in pre-professional programs, which is what many colleges are turning into.

But, the bottom line is, absolutely. It isn't 100% necessary to be successful or happy, but it sure is hell helps.

 

[erickkoch]

I work in the medical field, it seems most positions require a degree and/or some kind of license or certification.

I do think the MBA is kind of overrated. I almost completed mine but hated the courses and found that those I worked with who had them were no better at their jobs than those without.

Oh, and I have a cousin who works as an engineer with Northrop/Grumman and never completed his BS (he was a few units shy) but this was not a big deal when he started 30 years ago, I don't think he could get hired today though.

 

[Pani]

Critical Thinking

As a college instructor, of course I am biased. But I think the article is overlooking something. People who make it up the ladder aren't the smartest, or the most educated. They are often the most ruthless and the most willing to cut corners to make a buck. Just look at the mess we are in!!! The subprime crisis is one of the most visible examples, but there are other disasters waiting to happen. That is fine for those who just want to grab all they can no matter what the consequences, but society itself will eventually crumble under that system. Then it will be up to educated to clean up the mess of the greedy!

p.s. I would take ANYTHING I read in MSM (mainstream media) with a grain of salt. Almost everything has some hidden agenda behind it. New has become nothing more than propaganda or a giant commercial.

 

[Mousse]

The CEO's ( Dell, Jobs, Gates) without college degrees are the exceptions.[/B]

I don't see it that way. I have yet to see any college course that teaches you how to be build your own business. It's a talent that a few truly gifted have.
Certain occupations require a great deal of background knowledge on the subject (physics, chemistry, engineering, mathematics) in order to even be in the race. In the engineering, being off by even 0.1% can mean the difference between a flying plane and a flaming wreck. Others require talent more than background knowledge (the Arts, photography, gourmet). Does knowing the difference between Monet and Manet makes you a better artists? Photographers always talk about how so and so has the Photographer's Eye. It's a natural instinct that cannot be taught. NFL/NBA coaches are constantly blabbing that you can't teach talent. (I don't follow other sports so I don't know what other coaches say.)
Being your own boss requires ambition, ruthlessness, cojones that cannot be taught. Hell, if they could, wouldn't we all be CEO's?

 

[Phrasikleia]

“The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance.”

--Benjamin Franklin

 

[GSMiller]

The fact that most CEOs don't have a college degree is proof that it isn't how much you know but who you know in corporate America that matters

“The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance.”

--Benjamin Franklin

Haha, he didn't live through the seemingly annual tuition hikes here in Kentucky

Governor: "We're broke! No matter!" *Raises tuition 6%*

 

[rhsgolfer33]

Governor: "We're broke! No matter!" *Raises tuition 6%*

Only 6%? I got a 10% tuition increase for next year, went up $3000. Whatever, can't complain since I'm on half scholarship anyway, still cheaper than a UC school for me.

 

[corywoolf]

If the value of a degree is diluted, it's because it's the new baseline, the way a high school diploma was a generation before. Without it, you're a step behind at the starting line.

I don't even interview people who don't have a Bachelors degree. The value of a degree is less about the particular information they learned while earning the degree, and more about them chosing that path and having proven that they can handle college-level material.

It's sad that the general education requirements in most colleges are full of stuff that should have been taught in high school. If most students can't come out of high school with the skills to write a business document in a professional manner, then this country's public education system is pathetic (which it is). I am shocked how many of my college courses have been total repeats of my junior and senior years of high school. Because such a large portion of this country's schools don't meet prior standards, those who did go to a quality school have to suffer by paying thousands of dollars for education that is mostly just reviewing previous courses.

Here's a quick summary of how to improve America's education system:

Replace the senior year of high school with an optional year equivalent (transferable) to a freshmen college course-load. Lots of students slack off their senior year of high school because they have already met nearly all the requirements for college entrance and a high school diploma. Hold this optional year on the same high school campus, but give students more freedom and make it similar to a normal college's level of treatment. These students would attend classes after the underclassmen got out for the day. This would allow the motivated hard working students to get a taste of college courses and save them thousands of dollars. This would also save the high school money by eliminating a small amount of the students that only want a high school diploma or want to go to a normal college for their freshmen year. Since these students that attend the this optional year are technically high school graduates, they must provide their own transportation to school (most already would have a car). The instructors would be at college level for these students too. There should also be much more apprenticeship style options available for students who want to go into a trade or business that does not benefit much from an average college degree. Schools need to become more efficient and hold higher standards. If a bachelors degree is starting to mean less and less everyday, do we really want to live in a society which spends nearly 1/3 of their lives in school? Also, we shouldn't encourage students to stay in college for 10 years because they "just can't figure out" what they like. It seems like todays 21 year old is much less mature then the 21 year olds of the '60s (from what I hear). Students shouldn't go to college to be trained, they should go to learn why they need to know this stuff. College is so bloated with filler courses, which is one of the reasons many gawk at the idea of going. How is Shakespeare going to help me become a doctor? It's this well rounded concept that has been taken too far. There needs to be a line drawn at some point to at least give students (that know what path they want to take) the freedom to dive into a dump truck full of knowledge related to their interests. Make students want to take these Shakespeare-type courses by peaking their interest, instead of just forcing them into it. Make high school and college education worth what they used to be.

 

[question fear]

I don't see it that way. I have yet to see any college course that teaches you how to be build your own business. It's a talent that a few truly gifted have.
Certain occupations require a great deal of background knowledge on the subject (physics, chemistry, engineering, mathematics) in order to even be in the race. In the engineering, being off by even 0.1% can mean the difference between a flying plane and a flaming wreck. Others require talent more than background knowledge (the Arts, photography, gourmet). Does knowing the difference between Monet and Manet makes you a better artists? Photographers always talk about how so and so has the Photographer's Eye. It's a natural instinct that cannot be taught. NFL/NBA coaches are constantly blabbing that you can't teach talent. (I don't follow other sports so I don't know what other coaches say.)
Being your own boss requires ambition, ruthlessness, cojones that cannot be taught. Hell, if they could, wouldn't we all be CEO's?

Instinct and natural talent are great. But you still need the opportunity to sharpen those skills and gain some direction. It depends HEAVILY on the person, some people are naturally aggressive and intelligent enough to get their foot in the door without help from a degree. If you aren't that well connected/intelligent/aggressive, then a degree will open certain doors. It gets you an interview faster, maybe it gets you an internship or a job opportunity you wouldn't have otherwise. Is it going to be the ONLY key to your success? No. But the majority of the world's better paying jobs list a bachelor's degree as a minimum education requirement, and unless you have the balls to get in front of an HR dept and explain to them why they shouldn't throw your application in the trash straight away for not meeting that requirement, you're going to have a harder time starting out.

 

[Tattoo]

My thoughts...

I posted this as a means to see what others thought - didn't think it would become such a HOT topic.

I found the article very interesting.
The problem I see is that degrees tend to NOT pay off in most cases.

Lets look at the Teachers Salary. Very sad one indeed - yet a Bachelors Degree is mandatory. The amount you have to pay back in students loans for over 20 years is more than a car payment.

My brother graduated from the University of Miami with loans well over $150,000.00. He cant even afford a house because his Student Loans are a Mortgage payment!!

Then I take a look at Construction Workers in the Union that never stepped foot in ANY College and make 35-40 per hour.

University's more and more seem like a Business. Would be nice to see at least the first 2 years as part of our Standard Education System - rather than a debt.

 

[ZachsMacDaddy]

A degree sure helps. I have a BA in Modern Foreign Languages. Funny since I work in IT now. I think that in many cases all the degree does is show a long-term commitment to a goal was made and accomplished.

I am a mostly self-taught IT professional with 13 years of experience. BUT, I likely would not have been able to get my foot in the door without that degree.

 

[question fear]

True, teaching vs a union construction job, the degree doesn't start you off so great.

But look at another industry: Let's say you're interested in working in the financial world. Analyst, retail, banking, etc.

I will guarantee you that it is extremely difficult to get any major firm to even glance at your resume if you don't have a bachelor's degree. It doesn't have to be a degree in finance, but they want to see you have an education.

Another one: I used to work for Borders Group (Borders Books, Music, Cafe and the owners of Waldenbooks). You could claw your way up to store manager w/o a degree, but right in black and white on the corporate job postings they listed a bachelor's degree as a requirement to be a superstore general manager, and it was most definitely a requirement to be a district manager or regional director.

Again, there are always exceptions, but you're making life a lot harder if you don't have the right job immediately, versus spending 4 years getting a good general knowledge base, and that door opening piece of paper.

 

[Mousse]

Instinct and natural talent are great. But you still need the opportunity to sharpen those skills and gain some direction.

Indeed. Getting a college education one of the most important accomplishment in your life. IMO, at best it's allows you to achieve your potential, at worst it's gives you the opportunity to learn from the mistakes others have made. No point re-inventing the wheel, right?
I'm going to push my daughter through college, if for nothing else than to broaden her knowledge base. If she wants to be a artist, then she'll be an artist who knows a bit about Creb Cycle. Or a writer, who can calculate quadratic equations. Or a physicist with an appreciation for Mark Twain.
The problem is too many people earn a degree with the sole goal of earn more money. They focus so narrowly in their field that they don't understand even the most basic concepts of other fields. I know PhD's who can't even balance their checkbooks.
I've got a degree in biology. But my first job was in the computer field. Now I'm an accountant. These two fields have little in common with biology other than the requirement for analytical thinking.

 

[cycocelica]

A degree is still important, yes. But having experience with that degree is where it matters now.