Does a University Degree really matter?

[ski2moro]

Although I firmly believe that an education is really essential to success, not all people are university material. I know many who went to college and dropped out after 2 years. Some have found their niche, but others bounce around from job to job selling insurance or cars one month and being the Assistant Manager in a retail store the next.

I think that if college is not your choice, choose a vocation/career path and learn all you can through training classes and seminars. It’s still education. Just because it wasn’t taught at a University doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable. Keep learning and you will be the best in your field.

Make yourself valuable to the company in every way you can. Education in your field is the key. There will always be jerks that were promoted to the level of incompetence, or got their job because of their family connections, or treat employees like dirt. You can either cope or change jobs, but there will probably be jerks at the next job, too.

Network with others to get a job, never burn your bridges when you leave a company, and keep up to date with new trends in your field. Start with education.

 

[furcalchick]

i graduated with a biology degree some time ago (and since decided to not pursue science as an exclusive career choice) and i think it's a bit of a mixed bag. i think college was great for me, because before college, i was way closed minded to new ideas and i hated writing for the most part. after college, i found out i love writing and found out alot more about myself, my capabilities, and my limits. so at least for me, college was a good thing. it was hardly about getting a job or starting a biology career, it was about finding myself. but i do know some people aren't college material, so if they don't feel like college material, they can go to a vocational school instead to learn a trade.

one thing i can't stand though are the types that turn college into vocational school, where 17 year olds are expected to choose a career and use college as a bridge on that career path instead of a time to find out the path they want to seek. those types i feel will be the most disappointed after college if they don't get the job they want and feel college didn't do what they wanted it to do. and also, do people realize how little career exposure people (at least in the us) get before college compared to during college? the ones that spend time searching out for careers during college instead of driving towards some childhood dream are more likely to enjoy college.

but i would like to pose three related questions to the discussion. first, does it really matter if you got your degree from the university of texas or davidson rather than harvard? for me, i don't think it's worth the sky high tuition for harvard when the internet has most of the info that used to be ivy league exclusive. i believe nowadays, you're paying for the harvard name and not much else compared to highly ranked state schools.

second, outside of a few specialty fields (medicine, law, etc), does a graduate degree matter? this depends on the person, but unless you're 100% sure about the usefulness, it's a no here.

third, will college be worth it in 20 years when some of our kids are entering university, especially when some project the cost of yearly tuition possibly going into the six figures?

 

[Doctor Q]

second, outside of a few specialty fields (medicine, law, etc), does a graduate degree matter? this depends on the person, but unless you're 100% sure about the usefulness, it's a no here.

I can answer that for myself. In my field of study, Computer Science, my Masters degree made a large difference. In those grad courses I mastered (pun unintended) a lot of theory that I still use in my work, even as specific programming tools change. On the other hand, my Ph.D. proved that I could do original research and probably qualified me to teach that subject, but not much else.

I'm speaking about how the degrees helped my abilities, which isn't necessarily the same as how good I look to a potential employer, but there's certainly some correlation between them.

 

[GSMiller]

Only 6%? I got a 10% tuition increase for next year, went up $3000. Whatever, can't complain since I'm on half scholarship anyway, still cheaper than a UC school for me.

It varied by each individual school. Some were increased by as much as 8%. What really shot up was the tuition rates for out of state students.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

second, outside of a few specialty fields (medicine, law, etc), does a graduate degree matter? this depends on the person, but unless you're 100% sure about the usefulness, it's a no here.

It really depends on what you want to do. If you want to teach at a college level, its necessary, if you don't mind being a mid level employee at XYZ Corp. then probably not so much. There are quite a few jobs where a graduate degree isn't necessary to get in, but if you want to continue to move past a certain point it sure helps. I have a family member who is an engineer at a large aerospace company, he had a great job, but to get to the next level he need a Masters level degree, so he went out and got an MBA (which the company partially paid for) and was able to move up.

For me, a graduate degree is almost necessary. It's really no longer sufficient to have just a Bachelors in the Accounting field. If you want your CPA in most states you need 150 credit hours with a certain amount in business, econ, or accounting or basically the equivalent of a Masters in Accounting. Plus having the MS raises your salary as does becoming a CPA (a few companies are offering a salary increase as well as a $5000 bonus for obtaining this in your first year there), so the initial outlay of $50,000 for one of the top year-long programs will be made back in 3-5 years. Definitely worth it, if not absolutely required in most states.

In my Geology classes we've had the pleasure of looking at BS, MS, and Ph.D salary levels in Geology, and I can tell you, the higher the degree you had always increase your average starting salary, usually by about $20,000 for each degree.

I suppose it depends on your field really, and what you want to do in that field. But generally, a graduate degree seems to correlate to an increased salary, though it will take you a few years to remake your outlay for the degree. Personally, I won't even be entering the workforce without an MS and may go on to a Ph.D just to get the benefits of being able to conduct research, give back by teaching, and make about $40,000 more starting as a Professor of Accounting than I would as an entry level CPA at a big four firm (not to mention the three months vacation).

first, does it really matter if you got your degree from the university of texas or davidson rather than harvard?

Thats the great thing today, you can get an excellent education at most state schools, small private university, as well as the Ivy leagues. I can't say I wouldn't go to Harvard if I got in, the money would probably be worth just for the connections and the name on the degree, but seeing as how the only program they have that I'm interested in is a Ph.D program and is intended as preparation for a career in academia, is free, and has about a 4% acceptance rate, I probably won't be worrying about it too much.

It varied by each individual school. Some were increased by as much as 8%. What really shot up was the tuition rates for out of state students.

Yeah, thats always a bummer, man I hate tuition increases, haha. I hate that out of state tuition thing, such a downer if you want to go anywhere else.

 

[xfiftyfour]

Yeah, thats always a bummer, man I hate tuition increases, haha. I hate that out of state tuition thing, such a downer if you want to go anywhere else.

Do what I did - go to an out of state school, weasel your way to a full time position, and then get to go for free.

 

[scotty96LSC]

A degree is a must have, it is what out society is calling for. It does open doors. However, the paper doesn't make the worker.
The skill that goes with that knowledge is the total package.
What would you rather be on, a plane being flown by a guy or woman who has 300 hours of aircraft flying book smarts, two aerodynamics degrees, and working on a masters, or on a plane flown by the guy or woman who has 300 hours actually flying the plane?
I have had people working for me who have more degrees than I, yet they were the dumbest people I knew. My worst employees.
Another point, if you look at the self-made millionaires of today, a majority of them have just a high school diploma. What college degrees can't teach is the WILL to be the best and do the best. That's character and that can't be taught.

 

[Doctor Q]

What would you rather be on, a plane being flown by a guy or woman who has 300 hours of aircraft flying book smarts, two aerodynamics degrees, and working on a masters, or on a plane flown by the guy or woman who has 300 hours actually flying the plane?

If all goes routinely, I'll take the second pilot (or an auto-pilot). If something unpredictable happens that requires improvised thinking and an understanding of how everything works, beyond the routine, I'll take the first pilot.

 

[robanga]

It matters a lot in some fields;

"So Doctor Igno, I see you learned throat surgery by watching the Discovery Channel...Excellent. We'd like to have you in for a second interview."

In other areas it carries less weight. If you want to drive a truck for a living, a degree while helpful is probably not critical. The more learning one can do in life the better.

Having said that I totally believe the study about the lack of formal education at the executive level, because I am one of thoze I am some credits short of a bachelor's degree and have not returned. Still, I run a sales and marketing department at a fortune company and I'm just two levels below our CEO.

I've been blessed with income that is massive over most of my career and although I have faced situations over my twenty-year career where not having the degree has made it difficult to get my resume seen, it's never been a deal-killer for me. But it also must be said that this is sales and marketing I am talking about, time on the job and overall performance over the years is more important that any other factors in being gainfully employed.

Sales and marketing at tech companies are not the only places where you find executives without degrees, operations and even some engineering management at companies I have been are included.

In my own recruiting and that of my managers over the last few years I've also noticed more requirements stating... " Degree or equivalent work experience equal to the degree" As job markets are really tight in a lot of fields you have to more open to those things too.

I'll counsel my kids to hang in there and get the mortar board and tassel all the same, in the long run it provides you with more options in return for a modest investment of time and money.

 

[Sideonecincy]

Since this is a college degree related thread, I would like to get advice.

I am currently 24 years old. I currently am a 2nd year junior at University of Cincinnati. My degree is a 5 year Bachelor degree. According to my class schedule, I should be graduating in summer of 2009, but I have to have surgery so I won't graduate until summer of 2010...no big deal. I am in an Information Technology major with a networking primary and web technologies secondary. The major is accredited as one of the top 20 IT majors in the United States. Since my surgery falls in a bad time of the school year, I will end up having some free time to take additional classes. I am choosing to try to learn more and become more efficient in other areas, ie. Database administration or more complex web classes. As of right now, I currently only have $4,000 in student loans, so I think I am doing alright in that area, considering I have been in school for six years.

I have an Associates degree in the field of Audio Video Production from a local community college also. By the time I graduate with my Bachelors, I will be 26 years old.

I have thought about going to get my Masters. I was looking into an MBA with an information systems focus.

-Is the extra time or money to go onto graduate school, or am I better off looking into certifications, such as a CCNA?

-If so, for those who have done it, would you recommend to go full-time or work full-time and attend graduate school during the night?

-Can anyone provide me with websites or information that can provide me with information of how pay rates vary across the United States?

 

[Don't panic]

education level is, by far, the single most important determinant of future earnings.

there are tons of stats to support this view.
here are a couple of the first ones i came across:

 

[Don't panic]

now go and finish your homework!!!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I wish those charts applied to us archaeologists...all you doctors, IT specialists and engineers are skewing the scale upwards.

When I get my doctorate I'll expect to be hired more in the $40-$50k range.

 

[ejb190]

Wow. Am I the only college student who drooled at the possibilities when looking through the course catalogue? Seriously! I studied Horticulture at Purdue. There was a History of WWII class that was so sought after that I tried 4 times to take it and could never get in! I couldn't get into the Photography classes either, so I joined a photography club and taught myself B&W developing. In grad school, I took a Wetland Ecology class (only partially related to my degree) which turned out to be one of the most amazing classes I ever took. I only regret I had to drop an Environmental Policy class to take it. Both professors were amazing.

I have two thoughts about education as it stands in the US today. First, when did college become so narrow focused? I had a professor in grad school who kept telling me I needed to focus and specialize. How specialized of an education do you really want if you are going to change careers 4 or 5 times (I'm on number 3 in 9 years!).

Second, why to we teach high school like it is every student's right to go to college and those who aren't going to college are a waste of time? That might be an exaggeration, but I'm not sure how much of one. Trade schools and apprenticeships just seem to be so undervalued in the US, despite the high wages some of these folks can earn (or charge!).

 

[jason999]

Problem with ang certs/dip's to do with computing is that by the time the course is finished, something new and better has come out.

Easier to learn as you go. Show what you can do over cert/dips for computing related work.

I know about photoshop but have done no course on this.
Displaying my skills when I went to a job interview won me the job which I really love.

Great doing work that one enjoys.

 

[shoveland]

I work for a major university in admissions and I have to say this is a problem that the majority of students face right now. As far as lifetime earnings go, studies have found that a college grad makes on average about 1 million dollars more (in a lifetime, mind you!). However this number does not factor in the abount of debt being paid off due to student loans etc. Still, a substantial amount.

I feel an associates degree now is what a high school diploma was 15 years ago in terms of getting into the job market.

I'd say that, in general, college grads have more enjoyment in their lives due to being able to work in a job market that generally requires SOME college

 

[Hawkeye411]

Believe it or not, the majority of CEOs running major companies in the United States do not have degrees. Research done by BusinessWeek magazine in 2007 found that fewer than 1/3 of executives who hold high level positions in corporate America have any type of degree!

And a more recent poll conducted by University professors Aron Gottesman and Matthew R. Morey found that out of 500 top companies surveyed, only 150 had CEOs with a degree at the helm.

What do you think your chances are of becoming a CEO of a major company?
LMAO

 

[Grimace]

but i would like to pose three related questions to the discussion. first, does it really matter if you got your degree from the university of texas or davidson rather than harvard? for me, i don't think it's worth the sky high tuition for harvard when the internet has most of the info that used to be ivy league exclusive. i believe nowadays, you're paying for the harvard name and not much else compared to highly ranked state schools.

Do you pay full sticker price for a car? Probably not. The average net tuition for Harvard (College) students is around $12,000 - not the $46,500 that gets tossed around the news. The higher sticker price is for those who can pay it -- most families making under $120,000 will pay very little if anything. Families making less than $80,000 effectively have no tuition cost.

Yes, the internet can bring you some of the same content. Top schools are known for top peer effects, or the in/out of classroom learning experience from other students. Some people don't care about that, some people do.

No one is saying that you have to go to an expensive or historically prestigious college/university, but you shouldn't knock the tops just for being tops.

 

[guifa]

The place were I work is top heavey with PhDs. Halfof the workfoorce has an advanced degree. Still they hire people with just maybe a 2 two assoicate degree from a comunity collage. Many of these people do technical work like Graphic Arts and eletronic assembly or supporting desktop PCs.

Graphic arts is technical work? Maybe if you want regurgitated crap using templates or rehashes of other real work. There's a reason it's called ARTS. But then again, companies these days think that if someone has Photoshop they're a graphic artist or if they have Dreamweaver they're a web-designer.

My brother graduated from the University of Miami with loans well over $150,000.00. He cant even afford a house because his Student Loans are a Mortgage payment!!

Why anyone would rack up loans so high is beyond me.

Let's think about this logically, if one goes to an in-state public school (like, say, mine, a top-50 school, with several programs ranked far higher), the tuition is what? $2.8k per semester. Add in books and fees and we'll call it a hair over $3k per semester (unless you're stupid and only buy new books, stupid freshman). Times 8 semesters to graduate, that's $24k. Now, cost of living in around here is around about $300-450 for the apartment (even less if you share with friends), plus $200 for food. That's $500-650 per month, times 48 months (assuming you live here over the summer and do nothing) $24k-31.2k. That means total cost of college education, including housing, food, tuition and books for an in-state public school will be between $48k and $55k, assuming no scholarships. Now then, working a part time job (20hr/wk) at minimum wage ($5.85/hr), that's $117/wk, or $6k/yr, or $24k over the college career. That means going to college should leave you with a maximum of a $24k - $31k debt, which is hardly impossible to pay off. That minimum wage will also be going up significantly faster than will the cost of tuition in the next two years, so the debt should be even less.

You can go about going to college so that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg, or you can go about it so that you end up with a mountain of debt. At undergrad the university makes very little differences as long as it's a respectable major institution, especially if you're going on to grad school. And at grad school, especially if you're in the pure sciences or liberal arts, and it's not paid for, you're not at the right school. (for Spanish MAs and PhDs, the standard is around 1000-2000 a month stipend on top of tuition, as I mentioned, that's well over the cost of living in my city, and I know it's similar at most other universities in my area and across the nation).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

for easy numbers my college degree set my parents back around 80-90k. That cost included everything like tuition, books, housing, food, insurance ect. I am using my dads number of the fact each of hit kids cost him about 20k a year while in college. Also remember I come from upper middle class so my cost per year will be a lot higher than most.

if you want to go with just school tuition housing and food and what not it was around 15k a year. Over 5 years it works out to be 75k.



I might like to point out it clearly shows in numbers that a degree matters. Engineers do bump the number higher but if you look over the longer term it pretty good.

 

[MUCKYFINGERS]

Education affects people in different ways.

If you're a white male who's dad is a filthy rich CEO or knows the right people in the right places, you can probably succeed without getting a college degree.

If you're from an average middle class or working-class family, having a degree can help you get a job that will pay you much more than if you stayed working in a blue-collar or lower-management occupation.

To say getting an education is not worth it is BS.

It also depends what you get your education in--I won't put down certain majors/fields of study, but there are certain majors/degrees that will likely lead you down a certain path in your life.

Ultimately, for MOST people, an education will help you a lot in getting a good-paying job, especially in today's competitive world. For SOME people, getting an education does not affect them one way or another.

 

[Tattoo]

What do you think your chances are of becoming a CEO of a major company?
LMAO

I'm sure the same was said of the current CEO's.
Im sure the same was said about Obama.
Im sure the same was said about many things you may now LMAO about

 

[Don't panic]

Im sure the same was said about Obama.

???
Obama got a BA in Pol Sciences from Columbia with a thesis on soviet neclear disarmament, moved on to get a law degree from harvard magna cum laude and then started teaching at the University of Chicago, while starting his spectacular political career.
All this without tha backup of a powerful or rich family.

you might want to pick your examples more carefully.
indeed

 

[Sideonecincy]

???
Obama got a BA in Pol Sciences from Columbia with a thesis on soviet neclear disarmament, moved on to get a law degree from harvard magna cum laude and then started teaching at the University of Chicago, while starting his spectacular political career.
All this without tha backup of a powerful or rich family.

you might want to pick your examples more carefully.
indeed

I think he/she was going on the basis that people would've "LMAO" if they were told that an african american (or woman) would be the democratic candidate in an presidental election. If Obama or Hiliary would've told people "one day I'll be President"...many people would've laughed.

 

[SDLSteve]

Yes, but there is always exceptions. I have a Masters degree and my friend makes over 2.5X as much with a high school education. However, I know his path was much harder at the beginning for him.