does anyone else get pissed off...

[bluenoise]

The problem is if Apple isn't called to the carpet to fix the problems, the phones basically get shuffled back to Apple, wiped clean, put in a white box, a REFURBISHED sticker applied to the box, and it gets sold to another person that'll most likely notice "Oh crap, I got one of those funky defective ones" and they'll return it, repeat the cycle over and over.

Apple needs to address the issue and admit there's a problem. Doing that alone - just making an official statement that the phone has a problem (they don't even need to say they're going to fix it, honestly, just admit it's borked) would do wonders for their reputation which right now is NOT good because of such deceptive tactics.

Fess up, fix it, move on. People care more about honesty than being screwed over - they'll happily get pooched numerous times and accept is as long as whoever is doing the pooching admits it openly.

Not a big believer in word-of-mouth market forces, eh?

There is no way a company would survive by ignoring customer dissatisfaction. They'd also have a hard time selling products if they made public statements about the flaws in their products, especially if they haven't necessarily identified exactly what causes the flaws.

 

[rook02]

Can't really get another phone unless I also buy another ipod touch because there are several apps that I need for my job. Don't get me wrong I love every other aspect of the phone, but the reception issue (although apple won't admit it's an issue) and their lack of acknowledgment of the issue is really causing frustration.

 

[bluenoise]

Not so difficult to grasp as many think, eh?

I was being facetious. There are many such online resources (we're on one now) where someone could find out that the iPhone 4 seems to have a problem that warrants some consideration before they decide to buy one.

 

[bluenoise]

Can't really get another phone unless I also buy another ipod touch because there are several apps that I need for my job. Don't get me wrong I love every other aspect of the phone, but the reception issue (although apple won't admit it's an issue) and their lack of acknowledgment of the issue is really causing frustration.

Is this your first iPhone? If you have your old one, it might be a good idea to go back to it while Apple gets this sorted out.

I don't know if you're self-employed, but maybe your employer can issue you an iPhone or iPod touch since you need it for work.

 

[kuaiyouming]

.

 

[Wolfmore]

Mine is seems perfect and Apple's attitude pisses me off

I don't find any problems with my iPhone 4 (antenna,proximity sensor, screen, nor camera app spot/discoloration) and it pisses me off the stance Apple has taken. It is ridiculous how they are treating their best customers: early adopters. This is gonna cause long term resentment in my opinion. Shame!

So what you say? Well you don't want that because when you treat you customers with respect they make it their business to bring you more business. When you treat them badly they make it their business to do the opposite or just not say the good things they would have said otherwise...thus you silence your best promoters.

 

[br0adband]

We, the early adopters, are making such a big stink in the hopes that people will stop first and do research about what they could be stepping into. Apparently, if close to 2 million iPhones have sold so far, and with so many people reporting problems, I'd say the overwhelming majority of those people making purchases are:

a) ignorant of what's going on (fairly likely)
b) stupid enough to not care (definite possibility)
c) heard reports but are still willing to give Apple a chance (a significant portion)
d) some combination of a, b, and c but not all 3 combined
e) Apple fanatics that simply don't give a damn either way irrespective of a, b, or c

Works for me...

 

[rook02]

Is this your first iPhone? If you have your old one, it might be a good idea to go back to it while Apple gets this sorted out.

I don't know if you're self-employed, but maybe your employer can issue you an iPhone or iPod touch since you need it for work.

This is my first iphone. Had an ipod touch before that I used for apps, but sold it when I bought this phone thinking I wouldn't need it anymore.

I am a doctor and need many of the medical applications to deliver quality medical care in an efficient manner to my patients. The hospitals I work at do not provide us with the iphone/ipod touch, but without many of the medical apps my day would go by much slower and would be putting more hours than I already do.

(i know someone is going to say if I am a doctor then i can afford an ipod touch or whatever. Well I am a medical resident working 80+ hours a week and not getting paid much at all)

 

[mrblack927]

perfect definition of a single minded fanatic. i want them to tell me that they acknowledge this as an issue and that they are working on a fix that will be out shortly. but no, they wanna pretend like there is nothing wrong at all, and make us feel incompetent, telling us that we're holding it wrong. come on seriously? don't give me that fanboy crap that "oh they are right and we are wrong." they are clearly wrong and we have the right to be pissed off. returning the phone is not the solution. i like the iphone, when it works right. when it doesn't work right, i want them to make it work right, and give me some kind of sympathy until they fix it. clearly they are not doing that.

Funny, resorting to ad hominem arguments now are we?

It doesn't matter anyway. The bottom line is the iPhone 4 is what it is. You can't say "I want an iPhone 4" and "I don't want signal issues" at the same time, because that's part of the phone. You have to take it or leave it. If the reception issue is a dealbreaker for you, that's fine, just get another phone. It's your choice as a consumer: Buy an Android phone that makes great phone calls, or buy an iPhone that doesn't. So I say again, I don't see what the problem is?

 

[kuaiyouming]

.

 

[mrFinder]

Great contribution. This thread is pulling out some good posts. There clearly is a ton of resentment and many feelings of disrespect on this forum due to this issue. Sure, there may be no visible instantaneous impacts on Apple, but there certainly will be long-term consequences. Consumers are fickle. Even loyal consumers can quickly change their minds when something goes wrong.

Imagine if Apple did fix this behind the scenes in a week or a month. We're all going to sit here and stew about it for that entire time. Does Apple think that we will just suddenly forget? Some will, but many will have a residual understanding of customer mistreatment that lasts long after the iPhone 4. Apple is in a bad spot right now. Its words and actions are now speaking to its character. And once poor character is established, no product will save you in the eyes of the consumer.

Well said.

 

[ratbatblue]

The problem is if Apple isn't called to the carpet to fix the problems, the phones basically get shuffled back to Apple, wiped clean, put in a white box, a REFURBISHED sticker applied to the box, and it gets sold to another person that'll most likely notice "Oh crap, I got one of those funky defective ones" and they'll return it, repeat the cycle over and over.

Apple needs to address the issue and admit there's a problem. Doing that alone - just making an official statement that the phone has a problem (they don't even need to say they're going to fix it, honestly, just admit it's borked) would do wonders for their reputation which right now is NOT good because of such deceptive tactics.

Fess up, fix it, move on. People care more about honesty than being screwed over - they'll happily get pooched numerous times and accept is as long as whoever is doing the pooching admits it openly.

You're pretty easy. I don't want a simple admission that there's a problem. It would make me feel maybe a little less like I'm suddenly living in an alternate universe, but what I want is an admission, a mea culpa, and an announcement of measures to be taken to fix the problem, permanently and at Apple's expense. I don't want freebies or asinine statements that there's no issue, yet every cell phone has it, and we should hold the freegin' phone some special way or we have to put a case on it. I want them to fix it, and if that means they have to pull them all back to China and re-tool them, so be it.

And of course, that simply will never happen. I don't even have one yet. I keep ordering, then getting disgusted and canceling. I want it, but I want it to work. The pull of iPhone addiction is strong. What I need to do is bag it until next year's model, and use my pretty much perfect 3GS in the meantime. Easier said than done.

 

[kryten3000]

I have been following this ongoing saga of the iPhone reception issues with iPhone 4. I just had to see what was going on myself so I visited my local AT&T store and played around with their i4s for a while.

I deliberately covered up all the various parts taking great care to cover all sides all around. In doing this I also took great care to view the signal strength. In my whole test of the phones not once did the signal degrade.

Just to make sure AT&T was not tricking me with some special doctored demo phone I then met up with a guy at work with an i4. We both did the same tests. Guess what? No signal issues, not one.

I have seen the videos on youtube and elsewhere, read the messages on this and other boards as well. I'm just completely amazed that so many people are having issues with this iPhone.

I seem to come to one conclusion on this matter. Some phones have the problem, some do not. There was probably some manufacturing defect at some plant or group of plants. To me it seems the only way to get this resolved is to get a new iPhone 4 and hope it was not one of the effected phones.

Perhaps my conclusion is a bit simplistic but I like to think simpler is better, no?

 

[br0adband]

You're pretty easy. I don't want a simple admission that there's a problem. It would make me feel maybe a little less like I'm suddenly living in an alternate universe, but what I want is an admission, a mea culpa, and an announcement of measures to be taken to fix the problem, permanently and at Apple's expense. I don't want freebies or asinine statements that there's no issue, yet every cell phone has it, and we should hold the freegin' phone some special way or we have to put a case on it. I want them to fix it, and if that means they have to pull them all back to China and re-tool them, so be it.

And of course, that simply will never happen. I don't even have one yet. I keep ordering, then getting disgusted and canceling. I want it, but I want it to work. The pull of iPhone addiction is strong. What I need to do is bag it until next year's model, and use my pretty much perfect 3GS in the meantime. Easier said than done.

I didn't say it's what I wanted, I said if they'd do that - make an admission - it would go a long way to keeping their already tarnished soiled heavily laden bloated overblown reputation from sinking much lower. It's not the fix, of course, but we as a people (meaning humans, of course) do tend to appreciate it that someone has the guts to stand up and say "Ok, we have a problem here, we're doing our best to resolve it but it will take time, bear with us and we'll get everything resolved, and we apologize for causing so much frustration because of this entire fiasco."

That's not all I want, obviously, but since I'll be sending the phone back as soon as they do announce or release something, it's a start.

 

[bluenoise]

We, the early adopters, are making such a big stink in the hopes that people will stop first and do research about what they could be stepping into. Apparently, if close to 2 million iPhones have sold so far, and with so many people reporting problems, I'd say the overwhelming majority of those people making purchases are:

a) ignorant of what's going on (fairly likely)
b) stupid enough to not care (definite possibility)
c) heard reports but are still willing to give Apple a chance (a significant portion)
d) some combination of a, b, and c but not all 3 combined
e) Apple fanatics that simply don't give a damn either way irrespective of a, b, or c

Works for me...

I'll guess "a," but not necessarily because they're ignorant, but because it hasn't really been a problem for the majority of people. Admittedly, many of us here are far more picky, too.*

* I'm not calling anyone 'picky' if they are complaining because their phone genuinely doesn't work. But there are many here who would complain if they found a fingerprint on their new precious baby before they ever touched it themselves.

 

[PaulieORF]

I have been following this ongoing saga of the iPhone reception issues with iPhone 4. I just had to see what was going on myself so I visited my local AT&T store and played around with their i4s for a while.

I deliberately covered up all the various parts taking great care to cover all sides all around. In doing this I also took great care to view the signal strength. In my whole test of the phones not once did the signal degrade.

Just to make sure AT&T was not tricking me with some special doctored demo phone I then met up with a guy at work with an i4. We both did the same tests. Guess what? No signal issues, not one.

I have seen the videos on youtube and elsewhere, read the messages on this and other boards as well. I'm just completely amazed that so many people are having issues with this iPhone.

I seem to come to one conclusion on this matter. Some phones have the problem, some do not. There was probably some manufacturing defect at some plant or group of plants. To me it seems the only way to get this resolved is to get a new iPhone 4 and hope it was not one of the effected phones.

Perhaps my conclusion is a bit simplistic but I like to think simpler is better, no?

It seems that when one is in an area with a very good signal, the problem isn't apparent. When I'm visiting my parents at their house where there is excellent signal, the problem seems non-existant. The bars do not decrease when I hold the phone in my left hand. When I'm at the office where the signal is just OK, the signal drops to 1 bar or is gone completely when I hold it in my left hand.

Point being that you were likely in areas with very good signal when you tried this. Everyone I know who has an iPhone 4 has had the same experience as me, it happens when there's a so-so to OK signal, doesn't happen when you've got a very good signal.

Now with my conspiracy theory. In iOS 4, Apple removed the field test mode which actually showed you your signal strength in measurable dB. It's possible they removed this feature because it would make it even easier to point out the problem. There is an article http://tiny.cc/fzdou which explains what the signal bars on your iPhone actually represent.

I'm happy using my bumper for the time being to "mask" the problem, but would feel much better if there is a fix out there, be it software or a recall by Apple.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that I know about the actual signal strength at my parent's house and at the office because I've done signal readings with field test mode with my 3GS on iOS 3, when Apple included field test mode.

 

[br0adband]

I'll guess "a," but not necessarily because they're ignorant, but because it hasn't really been a problem for the majority of people. Admittedly, many of us here are far more picky, too.*

* I'm not calling anyone 'picky' if they are complaining because their phone genuinely doesn't work. But there are many here who would complain if they found a fingerprint on their new precious baby before they ever touched it themselves.

Ignorant means they don't know, so, whether they're aware of the situation and problems that many of us are having the point is still accurate. It doesn't mean stupid in this situation. By definition, every single person alive today is ignorant of the issues many of us are having with the iPhone 4 until they are made aware of it, gain some level of knowledge from some source.

"Stupid" in this situation would mean they are aware of the issues and choose to go get one anyway without caring at all that they could be spending hard earned money on a device that's potentially about to cause them a lot of frustration, grief, and hassles they were somewhat warned about beforehand.

 

[br0adband]

EDIT: I'd like to point out that I know about the actual signal strength at my parent's house and at the office because I've done signal readings with field test mode with my 3GS on iOS 3, when Apple included field test mode.

None of that matters with the iPhone 4: different radios, entirely different antenna design and engineering, etc. People are using the 3GS as a baseline for comparison and it cannot be used in such a manner, even in the exact same spatial situation - Anand's quick little hack to enable the numeric readout is nice, but the two phones (iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4) in exactly the same spatial situation with respect to the cell sites/towers around them would both give different readings.

It's not one thing, it's everything combined...

 

[bluenoise]

Ignorant means they don't know, so, whether they're aware of the situation and problems that many of us are having. It doesn't mean stupid in this situation. By definition, every single person alive today is ignorant of the issues many of us are having with the iPhone 4 until they are made aware of it, gain some level of knowledge from some source.

"Stupid" in this situation would mean they are aware of the issues and choose to go get one anyway without caring at all that they could be spending hard earned money on a device that's potentially about to cause them a lot of frustration, grief, and hassles they were somewhat warned about beforehand.

Thank you for the dictionary definition. That cleared it up perfectly for me. I normally use silly words like "unaware" or "unaffected" to explain the point you now claim to be making. I have always reserved the word "ignorant" for more derogatory descriptions (such as "destitute of knowledge or education" or "lacking intelligence").

 

[PaulieORF]

None of that matters with the iPhone 4: different radios, entirely different antenna design and engineering, etc. People are using the 3GS as a baseline for comparison and it cannot be used in such a manner, even in the exact same spatial situation - Anand's quick little hack to enable the numeric readout is nice, but the two phones (iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4) in exactly the same spatial situation with respect to the cell sites/towers around them would both give different readings.

It's not one thing, it's everything combined...

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not talking about 3GS signal vs. iPhone 4 signal, I'm just talking about AT&T's signal in general in those areas. For example, when I had my 3GS I would get a signal reading between -108 and -105 dB. One of my coworkers with an AT&T 3G Nexus One was getting the same exact signal, between -108 and -105. That is what I'm talking about, not comparing the antennas on the different iPhones.

Likewise, my mother gets an excellent signal on her crappy 3G Samsung phone at her house, where I was showing -55 dB on my 3GS.

I will add that in most situations I have not had problems with the signal dropping from say 4 or 5 bars down to 1, I have held onto the calls for the most part. However, I did drop a call today at the office and when I looked at the phone it said "searching...". Never once in my 5.5 years at this office location had I dropped a call with various AT&T 3G phones. I went out and got the bumper right after work.

 

[br0adband]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not talking about 3GS signal vs. iPhone 4 signal, I'm just talking about AT&T's signal in general in those areas. For example, when I had my 3GS I would get a signal reading between -108 and -105 dB. One of my coworkers with an AT&T 3G Nexus One was getting the same exact signal, between -108 and -105. That is what I'm talking about, not comparing the antennas on the different iPhones.

Likewise, my mother gets an excellent signal on her crappy 3G Samsung phone at her house, where I was showing -55 dB on my 3GS.

And you don't seem to grasp that you can't take a measurement of something using two completely different devices and then have issues with the disparate nature of the results such as you would with the signal being measured by two different phones. The effective power/signal levels may be relatively "close enough" but because the two devices making the measurements aren't the same, the end result means it's irrelevant. Maybe you do get it, I don't know - I think we're both saying the same things here in many respects.

I'd try that Anand hack on my iPhone 4 and see if I could enable the numeric signal strength reading; unfortunately I don't have a 3GS so I can do the mods to it after rolling it back to 3.1.3 and then Jailbreaking it and making the configuration backup to apply to the iPhone 4.

Hrmmm... maybe I can find someone with a 3GS I can borrow overnight. I live line-of-sight with an AT&T cell site/tower, only about 750 feet away and about 20 feet higher than my 3rd floor balcony. Pretty sure at this distance and with zero obstructions to the signal off the antenna array I'd be getting around -55 dB as expected.

I get what you're saying, I do, really, and I'm not harping on it - it's just that the antenna design on the iPhone 4 and the new radios in it are going to make all the difference this time out, as well as how the radios are handling the attenuation because of the metal antenna band which I feel is the biggest mistake Apple has yet made with respect to their iPhones.

If I'm proven wrong in the long run, oh well... I don't believe that I'm wrong, and lots of people believe the new design is flawed as well.

 

[splashnader]

I'm sorry, did you want them to instantly and permanently fix a design flaw, what, magically? Don't you think they would do that if they could? Do you think they have a button somewhere that they can just push and instantly fixes a hardware flaw in your phone? Here's an idea, why don't you return your iPhone and buy a different one that meets your expectations.

I believe that was the point of the OP. People are getting upset because Apple isn't doin anything to FIX the problem. Setev Jobs says it is a non issue. Meaning that if there is any fix in the works, he is being very secretive about it. I think saying it was a non-issue was the part that has gotten some people upset.

 

[EstrlM3]

Does anyone else get pissed off when you call apple explaining them the issue with signal reception and how it is affecting your life and the only thing the CR rep keeps saying is "hold the phone properly." Who is she to determine what the proper way to hold a phone is? I have been holding a phone this way all my life and have never had a problem before. Also just to clarify, I was not asking for a free bumper or any sort of compensation. All I want is this issue to be resolved and the least apple could do is address that it is an issue and they are working on it. Apple is really starting to piss me off.

you fanboys are ignorant. yes it does piss me off, and rightfully so. downgrading is not the solution. that's a really dumb thing to even say. holding my old 3GS with my left did not cause a drop in signal, nor should my iPhone 4. End of discussion. It absolutely should NOT happen and the fact that Apple is telling us to "hold it differently" is absurd.

I think everyone has the freedom to get a different phone if the Ip4 does not work for them.

The company has made it very clear that they do not believe there is a problem with the signal.

Get over it, buy a different phone if you don't want to hold it differently, it is not apples job to please everyone, since when did it become a human right to own an iphone?

There are other products out there get over it.

 

[kas23]

This is my first iphone. Had an ipod touch before that I used for apps, but sold it when I bought this phone thinking I wouldn't need it anymore.

I am a doctor and need many of the medical applications to deliver quality medical care in an efficient manner to my patients. The hospitals I work at do not provide us with the iphone/ipod touch, but without many of the medical apps my day would go by much slower and would be putting more hours than I already do.

(i know someone is going to say if I am a doctor then i can afford an ipod touch or whatever. Well I am a medical resident working 80+ hours a week and not getting paid much at all)

Ah, I remember those days, not too long ago in fact. Keep your nose above the water and use a land line. And, yes, I'm a user having the same problem. In fact, I had a call dropped when I was talking to our Chair a few days ago. Embarrassed, I told him I was in the parking garage.

 

[dmelgar]

Does anyone else get pissed off when you call apple explaining them the issue with signal reception and how it is affecting your life and the only thing the CR rep keeps saying is "hold the phone properly." Who is she to determine what the proper way to hold a phone is? I have been holding a phone this way all my life and have never had a problem before. Also just to clarify, I was not asking for a free bumper or any sort of compensation. All I want is this issue to be resolved and the least apple could do is address that it is an issue and they are working on it. Apple is really starting to piss me off.

I'm sure they are working on it, but there is no quick fix. Its a hardware design issue. Will be months or next year before its properly fixed.
Should return it, get something else, iPhone 3GS or Android. Check back when they say they've fixed it months from now.

You're angry because you want them to say something they simply cannot say.