Does anyone have to be poor?

StokeLee

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 30, 2005
413
0
Stoke-on-Trent. Midlands, UK
How much money is there in the world?

Some people have billions, some people nothing. How much would everyone have if it was all shared out?

Its a shame that we all cant be equal. The person who performs brain surgery is just as needed as the person who collects his trash. I know all about economics,, im not talking about that. And i know theres lots of other factors out there. Profits for different business's depend on development. Which woouldnt come if there was no profit as there would be no demand...

Its just a thought

What do you think?
A fair days work, for an equal share. No matter what you do
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,006
Republic of Ukistan
It's been tried before, it's been abused before, it's failed. Some people work harder than others. Some people work smarter. Where's the incentive? Not that I'm against trying to construct a workable system, but you have to have more faith in human nature than self-examination suggests is credible. In my experience.
 

spicyapple

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2006
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Isn't that like communism or socialism? No thanks. :)
StokeLee said:
A fair days work, for an equal share. No matter what you do
Maybe one day, we can get rid of money currency and be captains of our own starships. ;)
 

technicolor

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2005
1,651
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><><><><
You must be willing to give up everything you have right now?

Believe it or not you benefit from the underclass, especially if you live in a capitalist society. There has to be an underclass for the system to work. So I am glad there are poor people, as long as its not me.:D
 

StokeLee

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 30, 2005
413
0
Stoke-on-Trent. Midlands, UK
I understand what you mean.

There are always going to be people that abuse this. Power, and greed, technology. etc

Imagine this ( its not going be perfect)

Schooling...... .Longer education. More indepth, and developed. Every country has complaints about its school system.

Career.... Unfortunately... not everyone can be the best. but jobs could be match to the best of their abilities, and if your lazy too, you can collect rubbishtoo, on the other hand, if you show you can do better than, make sure that the person is recognised.

Science/technology.. people working on all aspects of science to improve life.. robots, medicine, etc etc,

We as a people, regardless which country we do come from say taht we want people to be equal, but equal in what way? Money always gets in the way of this.



EDIY - I was going to type more, but its bed time, ive to go to bed, and make sure you all get your redirected mail. Just doing my bit
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,006
Republic of Ukistan
StokeLee said:
We as a people, regardless which country we do come from say taht we want people to be equal, but equal in what way? Money always gets in the way of this.
Who says we want to be equal? Some people don't like the idea of other people having more.
 

StokeLee

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 30, 2005
413
0
Stoke-on-Trent. Midlands, UK
skunk said:
Who says we want to be equal? Some people don't like the idea of other people having more.

Ok thats a confusing statement, you say who says we want to be equal,, and then,,,, some people dont like the idea of other people having more.... So,, what do they want? the same? or more than the people who have more? Im confused
 

sierra oscar

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2006
254
1
South Australia, Australia
Does anyone have to be poor?
- no (poverty is forced upon individuals and communities and so on...)

We are all equal - but we are valued differently by different structures (agency etc), so it distorts our 'worth' as a commodity.
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,378
110
Location Location Location
You're right.....you are confused. Read his post again. :p


And yes, some people need to be poor if the term "rich" exists. And what you need to understand is that the moment one person spends his or her money is the moment when people are no longer equal again.
 

StokeLee

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 30, 2005
413
0
Stoke-on-Trent. Midlands, UK
Abstract, i assume your talking about me,,

In the word of the Matrix, there is no spoon, no wait, i mean there is no money.

This all depends on the development of technology, and everyone receving it. i know not all at the same time.. Imagine the logistics.. but long haul advancements.

exmple. TV,, black and white, to colour, to HD..... how many different advancements has there been between each of them?

The clever people get their reward for making the world a better place, and he people who collect the trash know that with out them, the place would stink,, im not saying the people who collect trash are at the bottom, im jsut looking for an example.
 

azzurri000

macrumors 6502
Nov 9, 2005
307
0
StokeLee said:
Career.... Unfortunately... not everyone can be the best. but jobs could be match to the best of their abilities, and if your lazy too, you can collect rubbishtoo, on the other hand, if you show you can do better than, make sure that the person is recognised.
This reminds me of the book "The Giver" by Lois Lowry...

In terms of being poor and being rich, it seems that people that have the money to invest in their future (as well as having natural talent, most of the time) are able to say get a good education and get a career that pays well, like a doctor, for example.

In Canada, I couldn't just walk into a hospital and say that I want to work as a doctor, because I don't have any qualifications. Those that can't invest in their future make money in the present. It's a trade-off.

Thankfully, loans exist (at least where I'm from) to even the playing fields out a bit.
 

StokeLee

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 30, 2005
413
0
Stoke-on-Trent. Midlands, UK
azzurri000 said:
In Canada, I couldn't just walk into a hospital and say that I want to work as a doctor, because I don't have any qualifications. Those that can't invest in their future make money in the present. It's a trade-off.

Thankfully, loans exist (at least where I'm from) to even the playing fields out a bit.
But if education went on longer, then more people would be educated to a higher standard. The job/career would be fully known, no debt incurred.
 

iSaint

macrumors 603
I think what disturbs me most is the wealthy whose conservative beliefs do nothing but promote their riches, and deny their knowledge or understanding of the diverse populations and needs of our planet. They can pretend to understand, but until they walk in someone else's shoes, they won't fully understand another individual.

e.g. the right wing conservatives

Bill Gates may or may not get it. They (his foundation) is trying. Bono gets it. But, goodness knows how much money he has.

I often think there should be more sharing. However, those with less need to be taught accountability if they are to be helped in any way. Why not give someone a comfortable house for their family if they work hard and whatever job they have, and are responsible to their community?

I'm teaching high school in a high-poverty/minority area. There's so much wrong in these kids' lives sometimes I can't believe it myself. There's little accountability, or any morals, being taught to them by their parent(s).

Ok I think I'm just going on here....

Jesus did say there will always be poor. :(
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,242
1
Washington D.C
But is everyone being equal fair? No..but does that mean people should only worry about themselves? No

Its all about balance..I have more money then many, but that is due to 2 things 1) I live in a place were I have all the fresh water and food I need, and there for can spend time on studying, getting smarter and getting a good job 2) There is also the fact that I work pretty hard, there are people who started out above me with money, but won't have more in the long run, because I try harder.


Its all about giving people the basic, Food, Fresh Water, Clothes, decent education ect.. and making sure they have what they NEED to survive, but also there are the naturally smart or talented people who take what they are given and make millions.

I think all people should have the same start(an equal chance), but in the end, I don't think we should force people to be equal(if they work hard, they get more.)
 

erickkoch

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2003
676
0
Kalifornia
The main reason I even went to school to get a degree was fear of poverty. I was raised by a single mother without a HS diploma, we were very poor. I was fearful of ending up struggling all my life so I worked two jobs and went to school part-time until I got what I wanted.

We can't guaratee success but I think all we should do is provide oportunity for success, access to quality education, training, etc, then let the chips fall where they may. Some will take advantage of opportunity, some won't. Some will succeed, some will fail for a variety of reasons.

Eh, maybe I'm just nieve, but that's how I feel about it.
 

panoz7

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
903
1
Raleigh, NC
Try reading Atlas Shrugged... it has been one of the most influential books I've read. It pretty much addresses your ideas from one point of view.
 

The Mad Kiwi

macrumors 6502
Mar 15, 2006
376
14
In Hell
People don't have to be poor.

Poor people are poor because they spend more than they earn, simple.

If they want to change this situation, then they have to either earn more, or spend less, or better still both.

Now why poor people don't do this is they are lazy, stupid or unlucky, sometimes all 3.

I know people who earn over 150k a year and are still poor, go figure.
 

Sirus The Virus

macrumors 6502a
May 12, 2005
582
0
Texas
StokeLee said:
How much money is there in the world?

Some people have billions, some people nothing. How much would everyone have if it was all shared out?

Its a shame that we all cant be equal. The person who performs brain surgery is just as needed as the person who collects his trash. I know all about economics,, im not talking about that. And i know theres lots of other factors out there. Profits for different business's depend on development. Which woouldnt come if there was no profit as there would be no demand...

Its just a thought

What do you think?
A fair days work, for an equal share. No matter what you do
That sounds a lot like communism.
 

dornoforpyros

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2004
3,070
3
Calgary, AB
Communist! :rolleyes:

The idea that everyone is created equal is a nice thought... if your 5 years old. But let's face it, some people are smarter than others, some people are stronger than others, some people are better looking than others.

So when you take all those variables into play than it's impossible for everyone to have the same income. Now do I think the current capitalist system is fair? Absolutely not, it's utterly tragic that some people are drinking $500 bottles of wine while families are struggling to afford bread.

But having said all that, I don't feel guilty about cashing my pay cheques and enjoying my iPods and such.

It all comes down to what Darwin was talking about folks.
 

spicyapple

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2006
1,725
0
Reasons people are poor.

1. Laziness
2. Physical and mental disabilities
3. Mental Illness
4. Racism
5. Social Policies

As for being unlucky or stupid, I don't buy those excuses. There are examples of people without high school diplomas who became multi-millionaires.

But what is the definition of poor? The poorest people living in N. America are better off than 70% of the world's population.
 

The Mad Kiwi

macrumors 6502
Mar 15, 2006
376
14
In Hell
spicyapple said:
Reasons people are poor.

1. Laziness
2. Physical and mental disabilities
3. Mental Illness
4. Racism
5. Social Policies

As for being unlucky or stupid, I don't buy those excuses. There are examples of people without high school diplomas who became multi-millionaires.
I'd call physical or mental disabilities unlucky, as it's more about luck who has them and who doesn't.

Lack of education is a major cause of people ending up poor.


dornoforpyros said:
But let's face it, some people are smarter than others, some people are stronger than others, some people are better looking than others.
Good point, me for example, I am fit, health, extremely good looking and smarter than most people. :D :D
 

sushi

Moderator emeritus
Jul 19, 2002
15,630
3
キャンプスワ&#
The Mad Kiwi said:
People don't have to be poor.
So true.


The Mad Kiwi said:
Poor people are poor because they spend more than they earn, simple.

If they want to change this situation, then they have to either earn more, or spend less, or better still both.
It's funny how many don't understand this!


The Mad Kiwi said:
I know people who earn over 150k a year and are still poor, go figure.
Defense is always better than Offense! :D

To the OP, I would hate a world where everyone gets/has the same. I have worked very hard for what I have. I know others who have done the same.

I also know lazy folks who sit around and do very little but complain about those who have things they don't have. People like this are freeloaders and do not contribute to society. They should not be rewarded.

As for money management, even the Lotteries have found that most individuals do not know how to manage money. In the past folks who won a lottery would be worse off 5 years later. Now most lotteries pay out over a period of years vice paying out in a lump sum to preclude this from happening.

As I read somewhere, it was predicted that if all assets were equalized around the world, those who have the assets today would have them again in 3-6 months. Gaining and maintaining wealth is not easy and must be learned to be successful.