Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Does Jonny Ive really understand interface design?

Wiesenlooser said:
Now hear me out. Mostly I like the visuals of iOS 7. It's much more modern and fresh looking than the current version. And there are some clever elements to it.

But I'm really talking about the small details that made iOS feel so good. To me iOS looked very dated lately but it always seemed very thought through in many ways.


From what I've seen so far there is a lot of confusing elements. Take the lock screen. It says slide to unlock and just beneath it is an arrow facing up.

The icons are probably the most criticized thing about iOS 7. I'm not talking about the plain ugliness of the safari icon. But about the whole concept of what an icon is and what it is supposed to do. To me it's about to give you necessary informations about which app it is on the very slightest glance.

Look at the photos icon. It's not ugly per se but how does it tell me it's about photos? And why is
It's color scheme so similar to Game Center. They don't even remotely share the same
Functionality.

The flatness of the icons is going to make them hard to see
On certain backgrounds. In general I feel like readability has been sacrificed for style. Helvetcia neue is stylish but hardly readable. Specially the calendar icon. Compare it to the current one.

There are a lot of other places where the system feels a bit unstructured and unorganized for the sheer sake of making it look stylish (notification center )



All in a I do like it but I am worried that the comfort feeling of iOS will be sacrificed a bit. I really hope the new language is just a foundation and there will be fine tuning. And please make the icons prettier some of them
Are horrendous.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I didn't bother reading the chunk of text you wrote in detail.
Not that they aren't insightful or meaningless complains. I do agree they are issues Apple needs to resolve.

But one question for you, OP:

Do you understand interface design more than Ive?

I must admit, Ive is technically a newcomer when it comes to interface design as far as we know. He has been designing hardware for years and hardly touched on interface design. But im sure some elements and knowledge from designing hardware can sure be implemented on the software side.
And don't forget Jony Ive has an entire design team, not just himself. In the past, scotts forstall used to dominate the entire design of iOS.
 
CallOfDuty said:
Do you understand interface design more than Ive?

I must admit, Ive is technically a newcomer when it comes to interface design as far as we know. He has been designing hardware for years and hardly touched on interface design. But im sure some elements and knowledge from designing hardware can sure be implemented on the software side.
And don't forget Jony Ive has an entire design team, not just himself. In the past, scotts forstall used to dominate the entire design of iOS.
Click to expand...

The goal of UI design is to make software usable for the end user. Hence, any user has the "credentials" to comment on if a UI works for them or not.

As for whether expertise in hardware design translates into ability to create UI designs, this is a grand experiment going on. I don't think we can assume that it will work. It might, it might not. And while Ive has teams helping him, he is the one who makes final decisions -- for instance, his team presents him with shaded UI bars vs white background, Ive goes, "let's go with white.” The users who are unhappy with the white background can certainly blame Ive.
 
Night Spring said:
The goal of UI design is to make software usable for the end user. Hence, any user has the "credentials" to comment on if a UI works for them or not.

As for whether expertise in hardware design translates into ability to create UI designs, this is a grand experiment going on. I don't think we can assume that it will work. It might, it might not. And while Ive has teams helping him, he is the one who makes final decisions -- for instance, his team presents him with shaded UI bars vs white background, Ive goes, "let's go with white.” The users who are unhappy with the white background can certainly blame Ive.
Click to expand...

Apple has a lot of very talented software engineers and designers, many of whom have been with Apple for a long time. If Ive was taking them down a path they didn't want to go down I have a feeling those concerns would have been surfaced, either to Federighi or all the way up to Cook. We has numerous leaks and rumors about iOS 7 yet not one of them indicated any struggle or fight amongst Ive and the software guys. If it does exist I'm sure it will leak at some point. But I watched many of the developer videos on the WWDC app and the presenters seemed genuinely excited about what they were presenting. It didn't come across as forced at all. And they were interesting to watch because it gave more insight and context in to the decisions Apple made. I go back to the WWDC keynote where the unveiling of iOS 7 got a standing ovation. Seems to me the developers could see exciting possibilities with this new OS whereas the general public seems to be fixated on the aesthetic of the app icons.
 
I own iOS and Android devices and I feel this is a nice change to a stale and aging iOS design. I expect bugs in the beta 1 so I'm not gonna complain. The overall design combines form and function nicely. Thank you, Apple, for giving us quick access to system toggles from anywhere. I'm digging the notification center as well. Today is an awesome addition which reminds me of Google Now that's available from anywhere in the UI. The new animations are welcome. I like how the overall theme adjust to the whatever background you apply. If it's too light, just change the wallpaper to a darker one and voila! Loving it so far. :D
 
Rogifan said:
Seems to me the developers could see exciting possibilities with this new OS whereas the general public seems to be fixated on the aesthetic of the app icons.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for the general public, but for myself -- the new icons aren't to my taste, but I agree, they aren't important in the grand scheme of things. As long as I can identify and launch the app I want, the icon has done the job.

But it's the UI within apps that I find problematic -- UI controls on white backgrounds that are hard to differentiate from app content, too thin lines that makes it harder to see for older eyes, bright colors that make it harder to ignore the controls when they are not needed, etc, etc.

IMO, iOS 7 UI might look pretty, but they are a step backward in usability. That's what I'm objecting against, not the aesthetic, per se.
 
I’m trying my best to accept the new design for what it is rather than a forced changed from what I’ve been accustomed too for so long.

Does anybody else feel it’s all so…bright? Too bright, too much white in the whitespace. Even though most of the web and UI in general is on the lighter side, this feels too strenuous on the eyes (I’ve yet to really try it, and I do suppose pre-iOS 7 is bright too). I honestly expected a darker change. I mean, wouldn’t it draw less power and at the same time be less strenuous? Perhaps it can shift in darkness according to ambient light? Just some falsely hopeful thoughts.

Icons (in general) are useful in their abstract sense; distinctness in color (and color combinations) and in major shape or symbol, the rest doesn’t matter. That being said, familiar color combinations, shapes, &c. ease transitions. I feel Apple should have kept basic color schemes and “maps” of icons the same and only simplified and abstracted their designs to be “flat.” too much change for too little payout; inefficient transition.

I can’t help but feel this incarnation of iOS design is aimed more at a young, tech-friendly, and willing audience (and hey, I’m right smack in the middle of that audience) but I’ll say that usually makes things more bleeding edge and experimental than practical, useful, and “it just works” like (which I expect and for a large part it’s why I gravitate toward Apple products).

I guess iOS 7 and beyond will evolve to adjust from their experiments over time, for now we bear and try.

(I just can’t shake how Google-esque iOS 7 feels, and it’s not graceful.)
 
Btw, Apple updated Ive's title on their executive page after WWDC. Don't think he'll be "fired" from his HI leadership anytime soon.

2mhdi5i.jpg
2zg9po2.jpg
 
I agree with the OP on slide to unlock. That is just weird with the up arrow right beneath.
 
OneMike said:
I agree with the OP on slide to unlock. That is just weird with the up arrow right beneath.
Click to expand...

How have you slid for all these years? From left to right, as indicated by the sheen that glows from left to right. After 6 years, I'd say it's pretty certain that most people know in which direction to slide their finger, and where - we don't need a demarcated rectangle with a sliding button any more - that's called legacy design, they just removed redundant visual noise to make the UI cleaner.

Let's face it - even if you don't work it out the first 30 seconds you use iOS 7, you're hardly going to forget such a simple swipe, once you've done it 1-2 times; it isn't the hardest action to remember, and your muscle memory will take care of it, even if your conscious memory doesn't.
 
xcodeaddict said:
How have you slid for all these years? From left to right, as indicated by the sheen that glows from left to right. After 6 years, I'd say it's pretty certain that most people know in which direction to slide their finger, and where - we don't need a demarcated rectangle with a sliding button any more - that's called legacy design, they just removed redundant visual noise to make the UI cleaner.

Let's face it - even if you don't work it out the first 30 seconds you use iOS 7, you're hardly going to forget such a simple swipe, once you've done it 1-2 times; it isn't the hardest action to remember, and your muscle memory will take care of it, even if your conscious memory doesn't.
Click to expand...

I'm not speaking for previous users. If you picked up an iPhone for the first time and and saw slide to unlock with an upward facing arrow beneath. I don't think its extreme to believe you need to slide up.
 
OneMike said:
I'm not speaking for previous users. If you picked up an iPhone for the first time and and saw slide to unlock with an upward facing arrow beneath. I don't think its extreme to believe you need to slide up.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree, having only seen the screenshots at some point last week, but once you see a live device, all ambiguity disappears; the text is highlighted in the direction you need to scroll - even IF you get it wrong once, you won't do so twice - this is a non-issue.

If the little arrow for control center were to be the unlock element, I think we can assume safely that Apple would have placed far more accentuation to it, drawing your eye to the fact that this is what it was for.
 
OneMike said:
I'm not speaking for previous users. If you picked up an iPhone for the first time and and saw slide to unlock with an upward facing arrow beneath. I don't think its extreme to believe you need to slide up.
Click to expand...

What part of BETA don't people get? iOS was completely redesigned in like 6 months. I'd say its a pretty easy fix to add an arrow next two or underneath slide to unlock. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple is getting this kind of feedback. Since its a complete redesign I would assume the feedback is about a lot more than just but fixes.
 
Rogifan said:
What part of BETA don't people get? iOS was completely redesigned in like 6 months. I'd say its a pretty easy fix to add an arrow next two or underneath slide to unlock. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple is getting this kind of feedback. Since its a complete redesign I would assume the feedback is about a lot more than just but fixes.
Click to expand...


Bug fix: "bug fixes"

:p hehe
 
I bet Apple regrets assigning iOS7 to Ive. Why, all they had to do was engage all the MacRumors design expert wannabees as consultants. Of course, that would have upset all the parents whose basements would have emptied out, but it clearly would have been worth it.
 
Personally, I don't care what the icons look like. I mean they are all over the place in terms of design but that is easy to change.

My biggest issues are the Apple apps still all look and work completely different. There is very little visual consistency. It almost feels like different groups develop each app and they do not talk to each other during the whole dev process.

Also, the use of the skinny fonts is making it very hard distinguish different elements. When they are trying to use text all over the UI with the same weight and size, it is very difficult to explain to the user which elements do what.

I'm sure they will improve this over time but there is a lot of work left to do. I've only used it for a day but I don't feel like they improved usability at all (and probably made it worse) other than the control center.
 
Rogifan said:
What part of BETA don't people get? iOS was completely redesigned in like 6 months. I'd say its a pretty easy fix to add an arrow next two or underneath slide to unlock. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple is getting this kind of feedback. Since its a complete redesign I would assume the feedback is about a lot more than just but fixes.
Click to expand...

We could say "what part of BETA..." all day, and some people here actually do that.

The fact is. This is an iOS 7 forum and until the final is released. All we can talk about is the BETA. Current, not what will/may be.

Granted, I doubt apple is talking feedback from this forum. Without feedback though, issues regardless of significance can't be corrected.

Complaining and giving feedback are different.
 
Those look nice...

My two cents on the design - having used the OS for a week. I think its gorgeous and when its finished in a few dot releases, its going to blow away the older designs.

IMHO, you have to start with the highest level of design change and that is this concept of layers. It is truly unique and I think creates a level of engagement that is very strong. It all starts with the lockscreen and each action is a beautiful animated later. The swipe down the swipe up and the unlock screen (which is think is fantastic btw). When you are navigating the OS, the way those same layers pop in and out, the way apps open and close, the way multi tasking flys in and out (and even when in muti tasking, they way the CC and NC swipe over top), and the way folders animate is remarkably simple and beautiful. Forget some of the stutters and slow animations - thats optimization that will occur as the OS gets closer to final, and especially when a bunch of debug code is removed. I dont ever remember Apple releasing an OS with poor animations yet many of the Betas had these issues.

From there, the emphasis on the content is obvious. Design wise, many of the apps are trying to make the navigation a background element with the content front and center. Again, I think this is the type of design people want today. Content is king. I agree with most criticisms about inconsistent icons, some type faces that need to be better defined, etc. But thats easy to fix and likely it will be with feedback. But the more important concept of what the design is trying to achieve is present and I love it. I love the new "spotlight", i love the changes to mail to make the content more accessible, I love safari now and especially the bookmarks button with the three content-focused tabs. Even though its buggy, I love the new Today tab in NC. Eventually will hold all my near term info in one glanceable sheet.

Many of the other features as well serve to enhance both these concepts above.

This is what JI designed and fundamentally I fully agree with his design principles. Some of the eye candy to supplement and portray these principles needs to improve but again, its an easy fix if Apple decides to change it. I am thoroughly enjoying iOS7 and even installed it on my every day phone.
 
I didn't read through the entire thread so I apologize if this has been said already.

The lock screen is not really that confusing after you understand what they are trying to do. There are 2 arrows on the lock screen.

1. At the bottom and that one is telling you to bring up control center.
2. At the top and that one is telling you to bring down notification center.

The slide to unlock still has the glowing light going from left to right to guide you.

Is this confusing? Maybe. It's still beta so if there is a better way, Im sure they will figure it out.
 
musio said:
Best quote in the thread
Click to expand...

There's some very talented second graders in the world; to assume that one's age dictates a level of skill and intelligence, is the lack of both, in itself. Have you never witnessed child prodigies or app designers who are 12-13 years old? It seems that you think that people can only design better as they age; this is a silly assumption; The attempted derision of Apple's design concept seems to have back-fired.

Re-title suggestion: "Do *I* really understand interface design?"


A useful and intelligent article:

http://www.imore.com/ios-7-most-skeuomorphic-most-liberating-version-ever-shipped-so-please-shut
 
Last edited:
FelixDerKater said:
Interface? Yes.
Icons? I think this is what is getting people hung up. They will improve with time, but icons are far from the most important thing in interface design.
Click to expand...

It is for first impressions. When you use iOS one of the first things you see are the icons, if they are ugly it will leave a lasting impression on people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back