Does the Optibay conversion void AppleCare

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by MacBookPr0, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. MacBookPr0 macrumors regular

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    #1
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

    I was thinking about doing he conversion and putting an SSD in but wanted my hard drive still
     
  2. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #2
    Warranty is only voided if you damage something while doing it or remove a "warranty void if removed" sticker. It is recommended to put the ODD back in if you ever have to send it to Apple though.
     
  3. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #3
    That only applies to parts that are considered by Apple to be "User-replaceable". Technically, you void your warranty if you replace the optical drive. However, if you don't damage anything and put the original drive back in if you ever have to have it serviced, chances are no one would ever know or care.

    jW
     
  4. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #4
    (Emphasis added.)

    Exactly correct.
     
  5. Tonepoet, Apr 23, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011

    Tonepoet macrumors regular

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    #5
    According to page 62 of the 2011 MBP manual Macbook Pros have no user serviceable parts except the "Hard Disk" Drive and the RAM. Therefore, your optical disk drive is not user replaceable and removing it without written permission from apple will void your warranty. You can find the terms and conditions of applecare here if you want to read up and double check. Additional information can be found here, in the policy regarding user installable parts

    If you don't have an expresscard slot for a Filemate Solidgo, just buy a Firewire 800 enclosure. Mechanical HDDs don't use up that much bandwidth so you shouldn't notice much of a loss in performance, if any.
     
  6. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #6
    http://www.apple.com/r/store/applecare/APPTermsConditions.pdf

    I'm not a lawyer but I would interpret that so that you can do pretty much anything you want as long as it causes no damage. Obviously, the self-installed part is not covered by Apple. If the removal of ODD voids warranty, why is there no "warranty voided if removed" sticker then?
     
  7. xxBURT0Nxx macrumors 68020

    xxBURT0Nxx

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    #7
    except for the fact that you have to constantly have an external hdd connected to your laptop ;)
     
  8. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #8
    You are wrong under relevant American law.

    An owner can, of course, do anything they want to their Macbook Pro. However, if they do anything that is not explicitly permitted by the warranty, they will void their warranty from Apple.
     
  9. Tonepoet, Apr 23, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011

    Tonepoet macrumors regular

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    #9
    I'm no lawyer either Hellhammer but I'm reading that differently. I see it as reading first

    "The Plan does not cover:"

    "B. Damage due to accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider),"

    as one item in a list of many things that can void your applecare. With the second being:

    "unauthorized modification,"

    This trend is suggested to continue when the third item listed is:

    "improper environment (including lack of proper temperature or humidity)" which is not subject to you personally damaging the device, so much as damage from it just sitting around in suboptimal conditions.

    And I hate to be a real grammar nazi here but you'll notice that there are two instances of the word "or" in that paragraph, showing that there two different lists occur in paragraph B. It's also important to note that "or" can constitute "and/or" depending on context.

    So basically it doesn't cover damage caused by you and it doesn't cover unauthorized modifications like Optibay.
     
  10. CorporateFelon macrumors regular

    CorporateFelon

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    #10
    There in lies the rub. How do you prove what you worked on didn't cause the damage? Cause that would easily be their case whether or not it is true. "User modification caused the damage."
     
  11. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #11
    I already said it does not cover the self-installed part or modification. However, it does not say that your warranty is voided if you do an unauthorized modification, or at least that is how I read it.

    The bottom line is, if you put the ODD back in, you should not have any problems. While these law texts shouldn't be able to be interpreted in more than one way, it looks like they can, especially by us non-lawyers.

    At least we have a law in here that the manufacturer/seller must prove that the damage was caused by the user. I don't know what is the case in the US but I'm pretty sure they must show something. Even though RAM is user-serviceable, if you damage something, Apple does not cover that. Apple could say that the damage was caused by user to everyone with a non-Apple part in their Mac.
     
  12. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #12
    The onus is on Apple to prove you damaged the computer. If you are somewhat intelligent, you will require an exact explanation (which they will be unlikely able to give).
     
  13. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #13
    Incorrect.

    Apple is under no such legal requirement. Your remedy, should Apple choose not to repair something under warranty, is to sue for breach of contract. Of course, you'd have to get past the arbitration clause (which would be difficult), but that's your remedy. An arbitrator (or judge, or jury, for that matter) is much more likely to believe an Apple expert saying the damage was most likely caused by an unauthorized user modification than to believe you.

    Apple often chooses to cover many repairs that it would not, legally speaking, be required to cover. They choose to do so for one main reason: It's cheaper for them.
     
  14. Tonepoet, Apr 23, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011

    Tonepoet macrumors regular

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    #14
    That's a good point actually. Cancellation of the plan under section 7 of the agreement appears to only be available to Apple in the event that parts become unavailable and requires them to give you 30 day notification. In section 9 paragraph D, the terms and conditions of the normal warranty and policies are also appear to be overridden by applecare leaving just this one document to look at here:

    However...


    I'm not sure who the benefit of the doubt lies upon here. In paragraph d it also says:

    "Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same time as the Covered Equipment;"

    isn't covered either. Let's say I put in an optibay under applecare. What happens if they say that caused the computer to run beyond its intended thermal specifications, wearing down the traces or solder or otherwise mucking stuff up? That's not only paragraph d but possibly also improper environmental damage.... Or let's say they say the voltage spiked. They could theoretically blame the device for anything, so long as they note it was installed.
     
  15. And1ss macrumors 6502a

    And1ss

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    #15
    Simply put, put the optical drive back into computer if you need it serviced.
     
  16. Demosthenes X macrumors 68000

    Demosthenes X

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    #16
    You're reading is incorrect. If they were indeed referring to

    "B. Damage due to accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider),"

    and

    "unauthorized modification,"

    as different lists, they would be separated by a semicolon (;), and in this instance, would also be split into different bullet points (note that each complete bullet ends with a semicolon, indicating a new list). Since the bullet in question only uses commas (except at the end), everything therein is one list. Thus, it's referring to "damage due to (and of the following)".

    This is basic grammar: http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/semicolons_in_lists.htm
     
  17. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #17
    The statements have to be reasonable and verifiable. We can come with all sorts of theoretical possibilities as to what caused it, however, if they are going to make a claim they must provide evidence of such.

    For example, if they say that voltage spiked they must: 1) Prove the device caused it 2) Provide evidence of the damage it caused

    Same with thermal specifications. They can say: "caused the computer to run beyond its intended thermal specifications, wearing down the traces or solder or otherwise mucking stuff up." However, they must provide evidence of those claims and how the device caused it.

    As a certified Apple tech, I won't let people B.S. me. I can see how others may just lie down and take it, but Apple must prove what they are saying or I am going to take them to task.
     
  18. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #18


    Incorrect.

    As pointed out above, Apple is under no such legal requirement. Your remedy, should Apple choose not to repair something under warranty, is to file suit and to go through the mandatory arbitration called for in the Apple warranty.

    Also, a straightforward reading of the warranty shows that optibay replacement does indeed void the factory warranty.
     
  19. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #19
    I did not claim that it didn't void the warranty.

    You are back tracking on your claim. Apple is under that legal requirement if I ask that they do so (arbitration or suit). And yet again, Apple must provide concrete evidence of their claims. Simply saying "It caused excessive voltage" or whatever is not sufficient. Expert or not, the evidence must be presented.

    But, my point is far more general. Things like this aren't generally happening at the legal level. I am speaking specifically at the store/repair level. A tech may say "This caused it." But it wouldn't take much logical jujitsu to shut them down.
     
  20. adrian1480 macrumors 6502

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    #20
    you guys are talking a hole in my head.

    if you wind up needing service for issues unrelated to Optibay conversion, simply put the original SuperDrive back into the machine before you take it in for servicing. whether it voids the warranty or not is irrelevant at that point because nobody will know that anything was changed.

    the spirit of their terms is so that they don't have to cover damaged caused by adding/modifying the hardware. adding an optibay isn't going to harm the hardware, so there's no moral issue to discuss...but wisdom suggests putting the superdrive back in to cover all your bases before requesting service.

    the end.
     
  21. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #21
    Not a bit. Replacing the optibay voids the warranty.

    Apple is under no requirement, whether in a store, depot, wherever--to provide a reason for not repairing something under warranty. You should read the entire warranty--Apple reserves the right to not repair something if it determines, in its sole discretion, that an event voiding the warranty has occurred.

    Your assertion that Apple must provide proof is, bluntly put, wrong.
     
  22. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #22
    If they expect to make it out of any legal proceeding, yes, they will need to provide proof.

    The point thus far is that with a little intelligent conversation, you can get Apple to give in. My claims are not in reference to the warranty and its take on the matter. No one wants to dispute the warranty, so you can kindly come down. I surely do not want to debate the warranty with you. Let's get it all out.

    Technically speaking, the replacement voids the warranty.
    Technically speaking, Apple does not owe you any explanation if they deny you.

    Practically speaking, it does not void the warranty.
    Practically speaking, you can discuss and work with Apple and get a non-related repair covered.
     
  23. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #23
    Wrong. They simply need to say that in their opinion, the damage was caused by the user. If you read the entire warranty, and understand the law around warranties, you'll see that Apple (and many others) reserves the right to refuse warranty service. You accept that the instant you use the computer.
     
  24. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #24
    Judge. In our (Apple) opinion, this damaged was caused by the user. We have no real evidence, but trust us. Our opinion carries much weight.

    Anyhow, see my edits. I am not debating the warranty, get over it.
     
  25. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #25
    So you admit to contributing nothing to the discussion? The question posed was if an optibay conversion voids the Apple warranty. The answer is yes.

    When you've been to law school and have been in practice for a while get back to us. Apple refers to the warranty, points out that the optibay was converted and that therefore the warranty is void, and the arbitrator is compelled to decide in Apple's favor.
     

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