DoJ Discovers 'Possible Method' for Unlocking iPhone, Asks Court to Delay Tuesday Hearing With Apple [Update: Postponed]

[albusseverus]

Woz was right. FBI had no case. Once the facts became public, there was no way they could proceed.

This is not over. Obama warned SXSW, there WILL be a major incident and congress WILL pass thoughtless legislation.

I was staggered by Apple's ignorance of how politics works. Politicians/government departments haven't WRITTEN legislation for decades. They're all lazy. It was laid out for Apple last week - bring us the legislation you want and we'll look it over. This is how politics has worked, the world over, for decades now.

No it's not Apple's place to write the legislation, but that's how the world works now… To go to Washington without a solution to the politicians' problem is WASTING THEIR TIME. It's not right, but silicon valley needs to lead the way here. I trust Apple and silicon valley more than politicians on technology. This is a surveillance issue, not tech, but the ball is in Apple's court to get things right here.

Great that they forced public dialogue on the issue, but now it's time to fix the issue.

Are we sure this has nothing to do with the legal blogger that named the law that invalidates All Writs in this case?
Pity Apple's expensive lawyers couldn't find it. Hope she gets a job out of this.

 

[vkd]

"Update 2: In a conference call with reporters, Apple said it would insist on obtaining details about the exploit the FBI plans to use should the government keep the case going. If the case is dropped, Apple will not be able to ask for that information. "

But, of course, they will.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

So let me get this straight.

1. The FBI finds a terrorist's work issued iPhone after finding his destroyed personal phone.
2. FBI demands Apple create a backdoor into the phone to retrieve data that they cannot access.
3. FBI uses fear tactics from said attack and says it is highly likely that there is credible information pertinent to the ongoing case.
4. Apple refuses because of what this precedent could mean to personal security of law abiding citizens.
5. All major tech companies back Apple against FBI.
6. Public outcry and worldwide attention also supports Apple against FBI.
7. FBI gets hearing with DoJ to fight their order and force Apple to comply.
8. The day before said hearing, FBI conveniently gets a tip that will "help" them get the content.
9. The next day, there is a new "terrorist" attack in Brussels. Just happened to be date of hearing?

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat to wear (I've honestly considered it when thinking this), but it just seems a little too convenient that this happened today. What do you wanna bet there is another iPhone or related device found at this suspect's home. Then we'll be back to square one with the FBI demanding a decreased level of security so they can "prevent" these sorts of things.

 

[winston1236]

They could unlock it long before they asked Apple, this was just an attempt to get a new spy law passed like the Patriot Act.

 

[B2k1977]

Obama called Cook and said, "Nice business you got there. Shame if anything were to happen to it." Cook asks engineers to behind scenes provide method of exploit off record. Cook makes public statements for theater.

Sad part is, I'd believe that.

 

[ReneR]

I wonder if the US politicians realize how much international reputation they are burning recently, ...

 

[cmwade77]

Woz was right. FBI had no case. Once the facts became public, there was no way they could proceed.

This is not over. Obama warned SXSW, there WILL be a major incident and congress WILL pass thoughtless legislation.

I was staggered by Apple's ignorance of how politics works. Politicians/government departments haven't WRITTEN legislation for decades. They're all lazy. It was laid out for Apple last week - bring us the legislation you want and we'll look it over. This is how politics has worked, the world over, for decades now.

No it's not Apple's place to write the legislation, but that's how the world works now… To go to Washington without a solution to the politicians' problem is WASTING THEIR TIME. It's not right, but silicon valley needs to lead the way here. I trust Apple and silicon valley more than politicians on technology. This is a surveillance issue, not tech, but the ball is in Apple's court to get things right here.

Great that they forced public dialogue on the issue, but now it's time to fix the issue.

Are we sure this has nothing to do with the legal blogger that named the law that invalidates All Writs in this case?
Pity Apple's expensive lawyers couldn't find it. Hope she gets a job out of this.

The fix to the law is: "No company shall ever be compelled to provide any method to bypass any encryption or other security restriction."

The fix to the problem is to provide an automatic secure erase after a certain number of invalid attempts or using a certain finger to unlock the phone a certain number of times.
[doublepost=1458662027][/doublepost]

So let me get this straight.

1. The FBI finds a terrorist's work issued iPhone after finding his destroyed personal phone.
2. FBI demands Apple create a backdoor into the phone to retrieve data that they cannot access.
3. FBI uses fear tactics from said attack and says it is highly likely that there is credible information pertinent to the ongoing case.
4. Apple refuses because of what this precedent could mean to personal security of law abiding citizens.
5. All major tech companies back Apple against FBI.
6. Public outcry and worldwide attention also supports Apple against FBI.
7. FBI gets hearing with DoJ to fight their order and force Apple to comply.
8. The day before said hearing, FBI conveniently gets a tip that will "help" them get the content.
9. The next day, there is a new "terrorist" attack in Brussels. Just happened to be date of hearing?

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat to wear (I've honestly considered it when thinking this), but it just seems a little too convenient that this happened today. What do you wanna bet there is another iPhone or related device found at this suspect's home. Then we'll be back to square one with the FBI demanding a decreased level of security so they can "prevent" these sorts of things.

You missed the fact that the FBI had all of the information from this phone in the first place and could have prevented the "terrorist" attack in Brussels.

Of course it is also quite possible that the terrorist attack was intended to take place later and the information was in the phone, but once the terrorists realize that the FBI was going to get access to the data they moved the attack up. And if that is the case and Apple was ordered to comply by the supreme court, the attack would have simply happened right after the judgment came down.

And another equally plausible possibility is that there is absolutely no relation to these events whatsoever. But the timing is way too suspect for that one and no matter what, it makes the FBI look even worse if either of the first two scenarios are true, as instead of pursuing legal action against Apple, they could have got the data AND stopped these attacks.

 

[DudeDad]

I say BS. I say that they cannot get in, they know they will lose, so they will try to harm Apple's reputation by making people think there's an exploit. They will claim that they got info from the phone, but it will info they already had. They don't want to lose in court, so they are bailing with this claim. Just my two cents.

 

[tgara]

Here's the text from the Government's Motion to Vacate today's scheduled hearing. Bolded emphasis is mine.

Since the attacks in San Bernardino on December 2, 2015, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”) has continued to pursue all avenues available to discover all relevant evidence related to the attacks.

Specifically, since recovering Farook’s iPhone on December 3, 2015, the FBI has continued to research methods to gain access to the data stored on it. The FBI did not cease its efforts after this litigation began. As the FBI continued to conduct its own research, and as a result of the worldwide publicity and attention on this case, others outside the U.S. government have continued to contact the U.S. government offering avenues of possible research.

On Sunday, March 20, 2016, an outside party demonstrated to the FBI a possible method for unlocking Farook’s iPhone. Testing is required to determine whether it is a viable method that will not compromise data on Farook’s iPhone. If the method is viable, it should eliminate the need for the assistance from Apple Inc. (“Apple”) set forth in the All Writs Act Order in this case.

Accordingly, to provide time for testing the method, the government hereby requests that the hearing set for March 22, 2016 be vacated. The government proposes filing a status report with the Court by April 5, 2016.

Looks like the FBI is getting some significant help, and this motion only postpones the hearing. So you geniuses who say the government is giving up are flat-out wrong. They are not letting this one go that easily.

What's worse, if this plays out and the "outside party" (my guess is it's one of the UK or Israeli intelligence services) is successful in hacking into the iPhone, FBI/DOJ will likely drop this case and therefore not have to share the hacking details with Apple or anybody else. THAT would be your worst nightmare come true.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Given that I deal with a lot of users with iPhones in a very large company it's super likely the unlock code is 1234 or 1111 or 0000.

 

[AFEPPL]

apple doing it behind closed doors to keep face..

 

[DJ Dilbert]

You missed the fact that the FBI had all of the information from this phone in the first place and could have prevented the "terrorist" attack in Brussels.

Of course it is also quite possible that the terrorist attack was intended to take place later and the information was in the phone, but once the terrorists realize that the FBI was going to get access to the data they moved the attack up. And if that is the case and Apple was ordered to comply by the supreme court, the attack would have simply happened right after the judgment came down.

And another equally plausible possibility is that there is absolutely no relation to these events whatsoever. But the timing is way too suspect for that one and no matter what, it makes the FBI look even worse if either of the first two scenarios are true, as instead of pursuing legal action against Apple, they could have got the data AND stopped these attacks.

Oops, yeah guess I did.

 

[Keirasplace]

So let me get this straight.

1. The FBI finds a terrorist's work issued iPhone after finding his destroyed personal phone.
2. FBI demands Apple create a backdoor into the phone to retrieve data that they cannot access.
3. FBI uses fear tactics from said attack and says it is highly likely that there is credible information pertinent to the ongoing case.
4. Apple refuses because of what this precedent could mean to personal security of law abiding citizens.
5. All major tech companies back Apple against FBI.
6. Public outcry and worldwide attention also supports Apple against FBI.
7. FBI gets hearing with DoJ to fight their order and force Apple to comply.
8. The day before said hearing, FBI conveniently gets a tip that will "help" them get the content.
9. The next day, there is a new "terrorist" attack in Brussels. Just happened to be date of hearing?

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat to wear (I've honestly considered it when thinking this), but it just seems a little too convenient that this happened today. What do you wanna bet there is another iPhone or related device found at this suspect's home. Then we'll be back to square one with the FBI demanding a decreased level of security so they can "prevent" these sorts of things.

IF you followed the news, you'd know they had been closing in on many in the ISIS underground in Brussels for the last few days and that's what likely triggered the attack at this moment. The attacks probably would have occurred anyway, but the timing would have been a bit different.

The San Bernadino attack that triggered the FBI thing is linked to a whole host of other lone wolf, or ISIS influenced attacks (there was a big one in Istanbul last week); so, it's not like those thing just magically appeared. So, there is a link that way.

Most ISIS members are isolated an self radicalized; that's what makes them so hard to stop. The Brussels cells look more like Al Quaida (the way they act is very similar to old Al Quaida tactics as used in London). Many Al Quaida members are now in ISIS in Europe.

Sometimes, two things happened in parallel that may seem causally linked, when the link is more correlation.

Increased terrorism accross the world used as justfication by FBI for increased abuse of power (correlation) is more likely than the FBI cause the terrorism itself (Bush did that by invading Iraq... But that wasn't really covert at all).

 

[sehix]

Ehhmmm so they would gain some credibility again after the iCloud hacking

How, exactly, do you propose that Apple got the FBI to spring a surprise judge's order to hack an iPhone 5c, notifying the public before they notified Apple? (Which had the lovely side effect of making the FBI look like bumbling would-be thugs in the bargain.)

And the FBI went along with it?

As for the "iCloud hacking", IIRC it was a case of social engineering; Ryan Collins, who got into a bunch of different iCloud accounts by successfully phishing some people, just last week got nailed in court for doing it. In essence, he hacked a bunch of unwary users, he didn't "hack iCloud". Much easier way to get into the accounts. Unless you get caught.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I've heard one possible way of doing it but it still would be a time consuming pain.

 

[deaglecat]

...

 

[bradl]

So.. now we know that the FBI allegedly has a possible method to get into this particular iPhone.

Now the question becomes, who is the person who is supplying the method?

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...n-the-fbis-clash-with-apple-what-does-it-mean

An excerpt:

Is this the end of the court case?
The FBI's request for the delay does not immediately end the litigation, only pauses it.

Apple is not claiming any victories yet, and some legal experts also cautioned against jumping to conclusions. But Nate Cardozo, a lawyer at the civil liberties advocacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation — which supports Apple's position — says this marks a pivotal point.

"This filing today represents the FBI completely backing down on this particular case," Cardozo says — but "there may be another case in the future."

What is the tool the FBI is trying?
The FBI says an unnamed third party has shown it a new alternative, which the agency wants to test. A status report is due by April 5, meaning a testing time of about two weeks — which suggests the test is not too experimental, says forensics researcher and iOS security expert Jonathan Zdziarski.

Now comes the sleuthing part. Who is helping the FBI, and what do they possibly know? Perhaps now people should investigate the FBI.

BL.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I would imagine serious terrorists would be using some fancy encrypted messaging system. Or go old-school and use human couriers like Bin Laden.

Opening an iPhone is one thing... but the iPhone a multi-purpose computer that runs various apps that may or may not be owned by Apple.

The next step is figuring out a way to decrypt Telegram or any of the other encrypted messaging apps.

 

[kdarling]

Take my iPhone 6S Plus for example. It has the Secure Enclave which the iPhone 5C lacks. Would Apple even be able to flash new firmware on it?

"John Kelly, head of info security at Square, who previous worked for Apple on embedded security and thus presumably knows his stuff, says that it is perfectly possible for Apple to overwrite the Secure Enclave firmware without preventing access." - 9to5Mac

And even if they did and could turn off the 10-attempt auto-erase... my phone is also protected by an alpha-numeric passcode instead of a 4-digit pin. So there are billions of combinations. There's no way they could brute-force that successfully, right?

If they only had the file contents, then yes, it could take billions of years to brute force. But they have the device itself, which is critical because it contains the unique device UID, which is tangled with the passcode to get the file system encryption key.

The UID is why the brute force attacks must take place on the relatively slow device itself instead of on a faster computer. The UID cannot be directly read. It can only be interacted with via CPU instructions that manipulate but do not reveal it.

Moreover, Apple stretches the entanglement by iterating multiple times, so that the minimum time between tries is not less than 80ms. So even without any other intentional delays, the iterations alone cause a slowdown.

So on a modified iPhone with no try limits and instant character injection, a 4-digit PIN would take less than a half hour of brute force entering characters. A six-digit PIN takes a few hours. A six-letter alphanumeric passcode could take over five years to go through all the permutations.

If someone could manage to obtain or read the device UID (electron microscope, maybe?) then of course they could switch to using a supercomputer and do it much, much quicker.

 

[Night Spring]

We may win the war on terrorism some day, but the war on stupidity will go on forever.

Amen.

 

[KPandian1]

No operating system is unhackable, given time and intelligence.

No device is impervious to attack, when patiently and (again) intelligently executed.

This includes Apple and all its products. Even the numbskull, law-monkeys know this!

It is one thing for a thief to break into my house and steal. It is a totally different thing for the thief to arrive at my house with a judge and insist that I open the door to steal my stuff.

Worse, ask a program writer to create another program to breakdown the original program that is his/her bread and butter, and involves millions of users, even their lives!

DOJ/FBI probably got all the info before they asked the county to change the code - just so they can use the case to hack into all of Apple's devices by tugging at our/judicial heartstrings.

Judging by the number of law makers, leaders, etc., who sided with the FBI, it seemed to work for a while.

The whole thing sounds like a criminal taking a plea deal on the eve of the court appearance - or the DA dropping a case just before appearing in court on a case they knew will be thrown out!

Is there more drama to come - eager to see the antics!

 

[You are the One]

The criminal racket DoJ losers give up. That's great.

Now they go plan another false flag, blow some buildings and people up while equipping the "terrorist" patsies with iPhones.

Then it starts all over.

[doublepost=1458696525][/doublepost]In the mean time another false flag in Europe. These crazy psychopath governments need to be exposed. Wouldn't be surprised if they announce the "perpetrators" had iPhones either.

 

[Gutwrench]

 

[pat500000]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/fbi-might-crack-san-bernardino-iphone-153654726.html

Great....and Apple can't do about it. Another word: game over, Tim.

 

[Candlelight]

6. Public outcry and worldwide attention also supports Apple against FBI.

I call bollocks on this.