Dongles created for Steve Jobs' devices

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Analog Kid, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. Analog Kid, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    Analog Kid macrumors 601

    Analog Kid

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    #1
    This just sounded like a fun exercise. How incredibly wrong can we prove this statement? How many dongles can people name that were released to make Steve Jobs's devices compatible with common technologies? This is what I've found so far, but surely there are more... I've only thought back as far as Firewire or so.

    Thunderbolt to Ethernet
    Thunderbolt to Firewire 800


    Firewire 800 to 400

    Mini DisplayPort to VGA
    Mini DisplayPort to DVI
    Mini DisplayPort to dual link DVI

    HDMI to DVI
    DVI to S-Video
    DVI to VGA


    (h/t @Brookzy)
    Micro-DVI to VGA
    Micro-DVI to DVI
    Micro-DVI to S-Video


    (h/t @xraydoc)
    Mini-DVI to DVI
    Mini-DVI to VGA
    Mini-DVI to S-Video


    USB to Ethernet
    USB to Modem

    30 pin to VGA
    30 pin to HDMI
    30 pin to Composite
    30 pin to USB Host
    30 pin to SD

    Shuffle audio port to USB

    And while Lightning didn't actually ship until after Jobs passed, he was involved in it's definition and that of the iPhone 5:

    Lightning to 30 pin
    Lightning to micro-USB
    Lightning to VGA
    Lightning to HDMI
    Lightning to USB Host
    Lightning to USB Device
    Lightning to USB3 Device
    Lightning to SD


    And given the timing, I suspect the laptops using MagSafe 2, 8 months after his death were on his approval list as well:

    MagSafe to MagSafe 2
     
  2. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

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    #2
    The 2016 rMBP would be Steve Jobs' idea of a perfect laptop. Your entire workstation set up how you want, that springs to life by just plugging in one Thunderbolt 3 cable. External monitors, DACs, instruments, peripherals... all of this ready on your desk, immediately and effortlessly, while charging your laptop at the same time.

    Then you unplug and go, on a laptop that's beautifully thin and has 10 hours battery life.

    Yet most complaints (from self-professed pros) on MacWhiners seems to be that you can't plug in an iPhone charger without a dongle. I can't conceive of a more ridiculous criticism when you consider the above.
     
  3. vipergts2207, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016

    vipergts2207 macrumors 65816

    vipergts2207

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    #3
    Some of the "dongles" you listed aren't really dongles, but actual cables. IMO, if it's got two male ends, it's a cable not a dongle, especially if it's a foot or longer. Classifying it the way you did, means everything is a dongle unless it uses two male connectors of the exact same type, which I expect most people would disagree with.

    Just going to add, I actually don't care about the fact that every port is USB-C, I see what Apple's trying to accomplish with that. Just no need to be disingenuous about Apple's past use of dongles.
     
  4. Bryan Bowler macrumors 68040

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    #4
    Both of you (Analog Kid & keysofanxiety) have made some very good points. And what Analog Kid posted is definitely a fun exercise that really drives the point home that dongles existed big-time back during Steve's time too. I can now say that my earlier statement dose not come across the right way.

    I LOVE the new MBP and I think the move to all USB-C is brilliant. I think my only friendly criticism is that Apple should have went ahead and also mode the move to USB-C with the iPhone 7 and also the wired iPhone 7 headphones. It just seems strange to me that Apple releases these products just a few weeks apart and one is not compatible with the other without a series of adaptors or additional cables. I feel like there should be continuity across the line and hopefully we'll see things start to line up in future product releases.
     
  5. raqball macrumors 6502a

    raqball

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    #5
    This is one of the strangest posts / topics I've seen here and that says a lot.. LOL
     
  6. Analog Kid, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    Analog Kid thread starter macrumors 601

    Analog Kid

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    #6
    I don't think the endless rain of tears about "dongles" is some sort of data comms misogyny about this not being the place for females.

    I suppose I could have said "converters" rather than "dongles", but I think it's a bit disingenuous to make that distinction. I count three of those as converter cables among a list that is decidedly not exhaustive-- does that materially change the point?
     
  7. Ender17 macrumors regular

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    #7
    Great thread. Really fantastic work. Seriously.
     
  8. 8692574, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    8692574 Suspended

    8692574

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    #8
    Long list, but you fail to see the point, while dongles back then enhanced the product and gave more functionality, and in most cases were not required, with Tim's product you cannot use the product without the adapters.

    You cannot even sync the latest phone with the latest computer (sold 2 months apart) without an adapter, or use the headphones of the phone with the conputer without an adapter....

    HUGE DIFFERENCE!

    You went back like.. 10 years and around 24 adapters (for different computers)...there are about 9 adapters for the current Macbook by itself .... (yeah i know .. only about 2-3 are really needed, but still )

    USB C to USB A
    USB C to HDMI
    USB C to Ethernet
    USB C to Multiport AV
    USB C to Thunderbolt 2
    USB C to SD card
    USB C to VGA
    USB C to USB Mini B
    Lighining to Audio Jack

    Also If i recall correctly many adapters where included back then at least the main ones(i still have some of them originally wrapped around the house...most of them where for displays).
     
  9. vipergts2207 macrumors 65816

    vipergts2207

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    #9
    What?

    I think it does change the point materially. People need cables to connect one device to another, that was never in contention. However, some people don't like the fact that they have to buy and carry dongles for most of their current devices and cables. Personally, that argument doesn't have a ton of merit to me, but I get that some people are frustrated by it. Also, the majority of your list consists of dongles and adapters made for iPod and iPhone. Those devices only ever had one port since their inception, and thus by their very design, required adapters to connect them to anything but a computer. Basically, your list here is a bit of a straw man, against what's already a relatively weak argument anyway.
     
  10. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

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    #10
    Absolutely right, that's what Pros do. They use their £3000 laptop to charge their iPhone.
     
  11. 8692574, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    8692574 Suspended

    8692574

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    #11
    So you are saying that just because one is a pro does not need / want to Sync / Charge his phone?

    Let's remove the chance of surfing some internet site and using other stuff (webcam) YOU think pros don't usually do then!!!

    What a limited idea you have of what a professional does!!

    EDIT:
    Let's travel....
    MacBook Pro check
    Power Supply check
    iPhone Check
    Power supply for the iPhone because I am a pro and cannot charge my phone with my Mac....check!

    Don't see the point in bringing another power supply just because "it is small" or "It is just one more piece"....when I have been able to do it without it for so long, seems a complication rather than a "it just works" thing.

    Oh I forgot, Pros don't travel!!! My bad!

    Oh yeah while we are at it le'ts remove the screen, everyone knows a pro uses an external monitor anyway!
     
  12. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

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    #12
    No. With all the extra functionality that the MacBook Pro is capable of compared to the previous generation, it's disingenuous. It has a lot of extra functionality, but people just guffaw about dongles because they can't seem to wrap their head around a laptop not having USB-A.

    Saying "but how can I charge my phone" while glossing over all the additional features is a ludicrous argument. You're starting with the phone and using that as a criticism for the MBP. What if Apple included a tiny USB-A to USB-C converter in with their next iPhone? Then problem solved.

    If the biggest criticism people can think of is that you can't plug in your phone to charge it without a tiny adapter, maybe it's not all that bad.
     
  13. schmidti91 macrumors regular

    schmidti91

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    Eisenach, Germany
    #13
    Wasn't there even a dongle included in the box? I owned the last MacBook Pro before the unibody ones. The logic board had to be replaced after a year or two (there was some kind of issue with this model) and after a few more years the battery bloated (it was still a removable one). It was my first and last Apple notebook before I changed to Windows and now I'm changing back
     
  14. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #14
    The original MacBook Pro came with a DVI to VGA dongle in the box.
     
  15. 8692574 Suspended

    8692574

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    #15
    You just want to argue for the sake of arguing... because claiming that using the usb to charge a phone is disingenuous is just plain silly (to be kind)

    The biggest criticism is not the phone charge, but it is a combination of issue and the phone charge is just one of them, they might all be small, but toghether they make a big issue.

    I will let you argue alone, but I will tell you one thing....

    It is the ants that can annoy an elephant, not the other way around!!!! Small things in quantity can make a huge difference!
     
  16. Analog Kid thread starter macrumors 601

    Analog Kid

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    #16
    You made the point that people wouldn't be upset by a cable that is male at both ends, but are somehow upset by the fact that dongles have lady parts. I don't think that's what is motivating the manufactured rage.
    A dongle lets you continue using the cable you already have and bridges the time until third parties start making USB-C conversion cables. Are you suggesting that everyone here would be fine if Apple made everyone buy 2m cables for everything? 1m? 50cm? 5m? How many cables should there be? What about the guy who just complained that there are 9 dongles-- would they be happier with 36 cables?

    And, of course, you realize that to interface with legacy USB devices, you need to contend with half a dozen device side connectors. Should Apple make people buy USB-C cables for all of those, or just provide an adapter that interfaces with the common end?

    I'm sure those cables will come from dozens of third party manufacturers.

    Right in this thread, people are complaining that iPhone doesn't have a USB-C connection. Before that, people complained that Apple didn't use micro USB like Android does, and that there isn't a(n) (micro) SD card interface. So those can't be excepted.

    To say that the iPhone only ever had one interface and thus those dongles shouldn't be discussed is a weird argument to make in a thread about a laptop that only has one interface. If a phone was made with two port types, would these suddenly become relevant?

    Here's what I see: people emitting broadband noise until something resonates and then striking that note over and over again.

    My point was simply that for all of time there has been converters to bridge the awkward time period between the introduction of a new interface and the time when people update their peripherals. This isn't new with Tim Cook, and Jobs didn't shy away from it.

    As @keysofanxiety pointed out-- this machine pretty much conforms to the Jobsian ideal: only one reversible connector to worry about for absolutely everything. I don't want to speak for a dead man, but do you think Jobs would have considered a bunch of legacy interfaces on his devices "good design" or would he have grudgingly allowed adapters for those who are slow to accept the future?
    Ok, so is the problem here that adapters are required, or that Apple isn't making everyone pay for stuff they may not need? I'm sure they could have put all 9 of those in the box for a price and, like you point out, most would still be in original wrapping.

    How did an adapter give a product more functionality? How was an adapter not required if you had a VGA display and bought a computer with a DVI output?

    Why do you need an adapter to sync your phone with your computer when Apple has been pushing wireless sync for years?

    Which of those 9 are "really needed"?

    Right now I travel with this:
    41fLR+mOJ8L._SY355_.jpg

    Until that's updated with a USB-C interface, I'd need to carry an extra adapter. Eventually the market will catch up and I'll be back to one ugly device to deal with all my legacy crap.
     
  17. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #17
    Steve said a year or so before he died that laptops should have user replaceable battery and storage so I don't think it's wise to put words in his mouth.

    The new MBP is great engineering but it's a planned obsolescence machine with a loud keyboard and apparently another GPUgate on the horizon.
     
  18. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #18
    Are you sure about that? :confused:

     
  19. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

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    #19
    Yet the batteries in the later clamshell MBPs weren't deemed to be user-replaceable, only the RAM and storage. In the MBA, they deemed nothing to be user-replaceable.

    Also, 'planned obsolescence' on MacRumors means you can't replace parts yourself. Planned obsolescence is far different with other manufacturers. They make so many different computers and throw stuff at walls that their legacy support is terrible. They stop manufacturing parts altogether or have an indefinite ETA, even from systems just over a year old.

    At least Apple's legacy support is between 5-7 years, depending on when the products are deemed to be obsolete or vintage. It's unparalleled in the industry.
     
  20. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #20
    Depends what you mean by support. There are Mac Pros that shipped from 2009-2010 that aren't supported anymore despite being very modern capable machines. Windows 10 supports every component in them and runs perfect. Apple no longer does...and for the last three years they shipped an OS that ran like crap.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 23, 2016 ---
    Why post an Air video when in the same period he released updates Pros which he showed off the upgradable compartment? Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance are ugly human features to have - avoid it.
     
  21. Brookzy macrumors 601

    Brookzy

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    #21
    Just another one for the list - the original MacBook Air had micro-DVI.
     
  22. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

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    #22
    I have no problem with the transition to usb-c/Thunderbolt 3 only on the Macbooks, but I do think that Apple has missed the opportunity to produce some 'insanely great' accessories right out of the box. We early adopters with the rMB experienced frustration of waiting a year or more for the market to materialize, and today, the MBP buyers are experiencing the same frustration.

    What @keysofanxiety says is true, but IMO Steve would have insisted that experience was available on day 1. This would mean a great travel hub and a great all in one dock or monitor. It would be something like the often wished for device that integrates a hub and power brick all into 1 slick package. Apple is allowing the experience to degrade by producing adapters that are only minimally capable themselves, and leaving the bigger task up to 3rd parties who don't have the same attention to detail.
     
  23. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #23
    Because it's a laptop with a non-user replaceable battery which contradicts your claim.
     
  24. xraydoc macrumors 604

    xraydoc

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    #24
    Few more:
    For the mini DVI port on the plastic MacBooks...

    Mini DVI to standard DVI
    Mini DVI to VGA


    Sorry Broozky, just saw your post.
     
  25. vipergts2207 macrumors 65816

    vipergts2207

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    #25
    I was just pointing out that there is a difference between a cable and a dongle, and that people are only upset about one of them.

    Much of the difference between requiring iOS device dongles, as opposed to Mac dongles, is about expectations. The iOS devices have always required dongles for most applications. However, generally in the past Macs, especially the Pro models, have had multiple types of ports built-it, to minimize the need for dongles.

    I agree Jobs, probably would have thought this was close to an ideal computer as far as ports go, though I think perhaps he would've perhaps included a single USB-C to USB-A adapter so that for most people, the computer worked right out of the box. I can imagine more than a few people, who don't frequent tech forums, getting their new computer home only to realize it doesn't have a 'USB port' on it to connect their accessories to. I think doing that, along with announcing their "dongle sale" from the get go, would've probably tamped down on some of the complaints initially and it wouldn't have ever become such a big deal to most people.
     

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