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Don't Buy Into Apple's Hype About AirPods Max Gaining Lossless Audio
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Music is still mastered to be lossless (well at least most of the time) because you don't want to limit yourself to the lowest quality. Same why movies were still shot on film instead of using tape like the TV buissiness did. And even now a lot of movies are still shot using analog film.
Even though a lot of people just watch them on Netflix (etc). Which has basically the same issue as listening to a lower quality mp3 file.
Can't wait to listen to my 96Kbps MP3s I ripped off of LimeWire two decades ago on this thing!
This article is odd. It's a feature virtually every review has criticized the AirPods Max for not having. Don't try to influence readers on how to react, some audiophiles I imagine are very thrilled by the news. Where was this warning regarding advertised Apple Intelligence features?
First: the sentence about AAC as good as lossless was written by Apple when they did not had lossless on AirPods Max.
But they moved from AAC to lossless in Music. Why, if there is no difference ?
Second: as said before, it depends on your listening setup. When i hear music with my Genelec in studio, or LSX at home, i can hear the difference. I can also hear the difference between different mp3 decoders, for example. And no, i am not an audiofile fan, and i also not young anymore.
But on reality, it depends also a lot on the material you are listening; all the encoders are based on psychoacoustics assumptions, and decide which details to suppress on the base of harmonic content and some model of the listening process. For example, a synthetic sound will include a pretty regular harmonic structure, and so the assumption of a compressing algorithm make sense. Music built (mostly) with with kind of sounds will sound pretty good.
Now, take acoustic instruments: the best example is a cymbal. A single cymbal sound, from a real, acoustic set, will sound different between lossless and any compressed format. But be careful: it is not a matter of having more highs or basses (this is why age do not really count): the structure of the sound is different, it is like the drummer used a different, lower quality, cymbal. This is the same effect you get on a Saxophone for example (a real one, not samples).
So, if you listen jazz classic, or music played mostly with acoustic instrument, the difference will be strong, at least with the right headphones or earplug.
Now, i haven't tried the AirPod Max, so i have no idea if they will improve with lossless; but that is an other discussion.
But they moved from AAC to lossless in Music. Why, if there is no difference ?
Second: as said before, it depends on your listening setup. When i hear music with my Genelec in studio, or LSX at home, i can hear the difference. I can also hear the difference between different mp3 decoders, for example. And no, i am not an audiofile fan, and i also not young anymore.
But on reality, it depends also a lot on the material you are listening; all the encoders are based on psychoacoustics assumptions, and decide which details to suppress on the base of harmonic content and some model of the listening process. For example, a synthetic sound will include a pretty regular harmonic structure, and so the assumption of a compressing algorithm make sense. Music built (mostly) with with kind of sounds will sound pretty good.
Now, take acoustic instruments: the best example is a cymbal. A single cymbal sound, from a real, acoustic set, will sound different between lossless and any compressed format. But be careful: it is not a matter of having more highs or basses (this is why age do not really count): the structure of the sound is different, it is like the drummer used a different, lower quality, cymbal. This is the same effect you get on a Saxophone for example (a real one, not samples).
So, if you listen jazz classic, or music played mostly with acoustic instrument, the difference will be strong, at least with the right headphones or earplug.
Now, i haven't tried the AirPod Max, so i have no idea if they will improve with lossless; but that is an other discussion.
That’s unnecessary dismissive.
Just like high PPI vs low PPI being disingenuously understated because of the costs of the former (people with healthy eyes clearly see the difference but blinded by the costs), the difference of audio quality especially among people young (before the age of about 40) is blatantly obvious for those with healthy ears
The cost for premium audio (i.e. bookshelf speakers, reference monitor ear buds, and so on) and the audio formats needed to be paid for to maximize them just isn’t a priority for most people (being a bigger cost increase than even high PPI panels vs lower PPI ones).
It’s also easier to settle with low-end sound compared to low-end visuals for most from a consumer behavior perspective.
We Really dont need an opinion on Audio from the person who cant tell mp3 from flac. Please get better or get other job.
And I respect them for it! We can all be fans of something and criticize with love!
Yes, AP Max are really good sounding pair of headphones but, they were too heavy for me, couldn't wear for more than an hour or two. So, I sold them and bought a "cheap" pair of Bowers and Wilkins. For 2/5 of the price of AirPods Max, they are really good. And I can wear them all day long if I want to.
There is no scientific double blind data I’m aware of that shows people can reliably tell the difference between decent lossy formats and lossless. This doesn’t mean some people cannot tell, but it’s unlikely most people can reliably tell the difference. I can’t tell (although, I did some non-blinded tests with some orchestra music and thought I could tell, but that wasn’t a blinded test so it wasn’t particularly valid).
There is a website you can test for yourself: https://abx.digitalfeed.net/
However, you cannot take the results of that to say that you can or cannot reliably tell. It’s just not an extensive enough of a test. It is a start, however.
Saying this, there is nothing wrong with supporting lossless audio. If people want to use it, they will have the option now. That’s good. Even if there is no objective evidence of acoustic improvement between a good lossy format and lossless, hearing is subjective. Even if it’s a placebo effect, if someone thinks there is an improvement and people are enjoying music more, then that’s good.
What I don’t recommend is getting sucked down the audiophile rabbit hole unless you have more money than you know what to do with. Also, don’t criticize others for not caring about lossy versus lossless.
There is a website you can test for yourself: https://abx.digitalfeed.net/
However, you cannot take the results of that to say that you can or cannot reliably tell. It’s just not an extensive enough of a test. It is a start, however.
Saying this, there is nothing wrong with supporting lossless audio. If people want to use it, they will have the option now. That’s good. Even if there is no objective evidence of acoustic improvement between a good lossy format and lossless, hearing is subjective. Even if it’s a placebo effect, if someone thinks there is an improvement and people are enjoying music more, then that’s good.
What I don’t recommend is getting sucked down the audiophile rabbit hole unless you have more money than you know what to do with. Also, don’t criticize others for not caring about lossy versus lossless.
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No, you’re getting this backward, MacRumors.
On a quality sound system, or quality headphones ( like the Sennheiser HD800 for example ), the difference between AAC and Lossless can be heard.
On AirPods or small speakers, It will make no difference for most people. I tried the AirPods Max, they’re decent, but not the best, and yes, they’re right, they might not be good enough to notice the difference.
The truth that Apple is telling here, is not that there is no difference between AAC and Lossless ( because there absolutely is a difference ), it’s that the AirPods Max aren’t good enough to make the difference heard.
On a quality sound system, or quality headphones ( like the Sennheiser HD800 for example ), the difference between AAC and Lossless can be heard.
On AirPods or small speakers, It will make no difference for most people. I tried the AirPods Max, they’re decent, but not the best, and yes, they’re right, they might not be good enough to notice the difference.
The truth that Apple is telling here, is not that there is no difference between AAC and Lossless ( because there absolutely is a difference ), it’s that the AirPods Max aren’t good enough to make the difference heard.
Wireless and low latency will never happen. Wireless necessitates a queue of data which is where the latency comes from. If you genuinely want low latency then analogue is the way to achieve that. Every time audio is digitally processed the data has to go up and down a stack of processing which adds latency. You can’t change the laws of physics.
1. AAC isn't Apple's standard. It is an open standard just like MP3.
2. It isn't data loss, it is quality loss.
3. AAC isn't indistinguishable from Lossless. That is dependant on bitrate ( and encoder ). At 256Kbps with Apple's Quicktime encoder, which is currently the absolute best AAC encoder on the market, 90% of the samples should be completely indistinguishable for 80 - 90% of people. And 256kbps is what Apple use for Apple Music.
4. Lower latency is important for music production. The only problem is USB-C is still high on latency. For Wireless Apple does about 200-300ms. USB-C may be able to get this down to 10ms. But professional analog 3.5mm settings could go as low as 0.1ms.
This is just **** marketing.
2. It isn't data loss, it is quality loss.
3. AAC isn't indistinguishable from Lossless. That is dependant on bitrate ( and encoder ). At 256Kbps with Apple's Quicktime encoder, which is currently the absolute best AAC encoder on the market, 90% of the samples should be completely indistinguishable for 80 - 90% of people. And 256kbps is what Apple use for Apple Music.
4. Lower latency is important for music production. The only problem is USB-C is still high on latency. For Wireless Apple does about 200-300ms. USB-C may be able to get this down to 10ms. But professional analog 3.5mm settings could go as low as 0.1ms.
This is just **** marketing.
Wireless products generally get “air” moniker. Audio products usually get the “pod” moniker. So it makes complete sense.
To effectively undercut the competition (Spotify) without cutting the price of the service by way of adding perceived value (lossless at no extra cost).
I was about to say their upgrade prices are the same in many cases as apple and they have way less options!
No love for Apple anymore Macrumors?
Lossless is debatable of corse, but if you know what to listen for, it can be marginally discernible.
BUT I digress with latency, any Video editor can tell you that working with sync material with the current state of bluetooth is very broken. So, any advance in this front, specially for all video/audio editors around, and there are plenty using macos, is BIG win in my playbook.
Lossless is debatable of corse, but if you know what to listen for, it can be marginally discernible.
BUT I digress with latency, any Video editor can tell you that working with sync material with the current state of bluetooth is very broken. So, any advance in this front, specially for all video/audio editors around, and there are plenty using macos, is BIG win in my playbook.
So you're saying Ultimate is a tiny improvement for 0.5% of people who think they can hear the difference?
He probably only owns a monochrome CRT monitor and will tell you that there is no difference between it and a 4K monitor
You’re wrong. Latency isn’t just a wireless problem, and it’s not true that wireless can’t be low latency. Sound itself takes 1ms to travel 1 foot through air, and modern wireless systems already achieve under 10ms.
It is an upgrade, but mainly if you’re got an amazingly high end system at home. In that case the difference is distinguishable. But on any of Apple’s headphones using Bluetooth, Apple is correct. You won’t hear the difference.