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The iP6 was not good .

I have no memory of iOS8

The iP13-mini Experience has wiped my memory clean ;)

I don't keep multiples around (not do I compare), so I really don't have anything for comparison.

wrt Mac OS, I have more experience (none of which, unfortunately, would pass Peer Review).

I am quite happy with Sonoma (Latest).
Yeah, I know the iPhone 6 on iOS 12 wasn’t good, sadly.

How is MacOS in terms of performance and battery life on Macs that are at the end of their support run, though? I’m curious. I’ve only had one Mac in my life (Mac which I still have). It is a 2015 13” MacBook Pro. And as you might imagine... it runs its original OS X version, OS X El Capitan, of course. I never updated it.

And to be clear: El Cap runs absolutely flawlessly.
 
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Yeah, I know the iPhone 6 on iOS 8 wasn’t good, sadly.

How is MacOS in terms of performance and battery life on Macs that are at the end of their support run, though? I’m curious. I’ve only had one Mac in my life (Mac which I still have). It is a 2015 13” MacBook Pro. And as you might imagine... it runs its original OS X version, OS X El Capitan, of course. I never updated it.

And to be clear: El Cap runs absolutely flawlessly.

I run Sonoma on Desktop (2023 Mac Studio), so I have no realistic basis for comparison.

My 2015 13" MBP is Latest (no OCLP/OC; I have not powered it On for many months, so I have no info) and its battery lasts far-far-less than I would like.

My iP13-mini Latest {battery?} easily lasts the Day.
 
I run Sonoma on Desktop (2023 Mac Studio), so I have no realistic basis for comparison.

My 2015 13" MBP is Latest (no OCLP/OC; I have not powered it On for many months, so I have no info) and its battery lasts far-far-less than I would like.

My iP13-mini Latest {battery?} easily lasts the Day.
Yeah, I’d expect that. People have reported that Macs share the same issue when you update them enough times. I’ve read some reports and they weren’t good.

Mine is still getting 10-11 hours of SOT, just like it did when it was new. I’ve seen some 2015 rMBP reports on Monterey (is it Monterey? I’ve never paid much attention to MacOS updates) and they are absolute garbage, especially in terms of battery life. People claimed something like 3 hours, something completely ridiculous, just like it happens with iOS updates.
 
I believe Current (and Latest) on the 2015 MBP is Monterey.

3h on battery is a stretch.

This is why MagSafe was created, no 🤷‍♂️

I often get 2-days on my iP13-mini without a charge-point.
 
I believe Current (and Latest) on the 2015 MBP is Monterey.

3h on battery is a stretch.

This is why MagSafe was created, no 🤷‍♂️

I often get 2-days on my iP13-mini without a charge-point.
Wow. That is sad. A fan-favourite model of a Mac is in that state? Sad.

I don’t use it for anything demanding, but even with a lot of tabs open mine is great on OS X 10.11 El Cap.

2 days on the Mini doesn’t tell me much, what’s your screen-on time?
 
Wow. That is sad. A fan-favourite model of a Mac is in that state? Sad.

I don’t use it for anything demanding, but even with a lot of tabs open mine is great on OS X 10.11 El Cap.

My memory (personal <smile>) may be faulty, but that's about what I seem to remember. I haven't had need to power-on the MBP in almost a year.

2 days on the Mini doesn’t tell me much, what’s your screen-on time?

~2h/day

Hands-on (with lots of driving) work, and I really don't spend much attention to analyzing the ebb:flow of such things.

The phone is more waiting-butler, than active-assistant ;)
 
My memory (personal <smile>) may be faulty, but that's about what I seem to remember. I haven't had need to power-on the MBP in almost a year.
I’ve seen other people report similar numbers, sadly.
~2h/day

Hands-on (with lots of driving) work, and I really don't spend much attention to analyzing the ebb:flow of such things.

The phone is more waiting-butler, than active-assistant ;)
Depends on usage, but 4h of SOT with two days of standby doesn’t sound amazing. Granted, the Mini didn’t have a great battery life to begin with.
 
This may only be sort of related to the original post, but I upgraded my iPhone 11 Pro Max to iOS 17.5.1 over the weekend, and it's working flawlessly; no slowdowns or battery drain or anything.
 
This may only be sort of related to the original post, but I upgraded my iPhone 11 Pro Max to iOS 17.5.1 over the weekend, and it's working flawlessly; no slowdowns or battery drain or anything.
How’s screen-on time? Can you share a screenshot please?
 
How’s screen-on time? Can you share a screenshot please?
Sometimes I wonder how good the screen on time would be if I didn't spend so much time playing games. 😅

IMG_5496.PNG
 
Silly John:

I've been updating my devices with the Latest for over thirty years . . .

. . . yes: I've been bit a few times (mostly on the win64-side of things), but--all-in-all--it's been a smooth ride.

iPhone 13 Mini updated to Latest, with complete continuity.

Well, so was I, but „only” for 20-25 years.

Of course the 13 mini runs fine. When you update it regularly, you don’t notice that.

But take any Apple device, play with it for a couple of weeks, then skip two OSs (like I did, iOS 15 to 17) and tell me you don’t feel a massive difference.

I have automatic updates enabled on all my devices and then, of course you do not notice it. It’s this huge jump that makes you feel the enormous difference. I bought the mini 13 and it had iOS 15 on it.
 
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Well, so was I, but „only” for 20-25 years.

Of course the 13 mini runs fine. When you update it regularly, you don’t notice that.

But take any Apple device, play with it for a couple of weeks, then skip two OSs (like I did, iOS 15 to 17) and tell me you don’t feel a massive difference.

I have automatic updates enabled on all my devices and then, of course you do not notice it. It’s this huge jump that makes you feel the enormous difference. I bought the mini 13 and it had iOS 15 on it.
I’d love it if more people did that. I have repeatedly stated that people deny that iOS updates are awful simply because they forget. They think “battery life wasn’t a full day on its original iOS version... right?” When the truth is that maybe it wasn’t the best battery life ever, but it was definitely sufficient.

I do think people notice the large performance issues, like keyboard lag. If you have keyboard lag, you know it wasn’t always there. Little things like delayed response times and other small glitches? They definitely forget. Because they will inexplicably and incredibly claim “it’s fine for me”. Yeah the hell it is. You just don’t remember, and the sad part is that it wouldn’t even matter. You want to fool yourself into thinking it’s just as good? Go right ahead. But don’t mislead others.

Take the iPhone 6s. Anyone would tell you that battery life has been horrible since iOS 13. But ask them how many think battery life was ever good and they will say it wasn’t. False. On iOS 9 and 10 it was enough for moderate users. More than enough. But what’s the problem? The problem is that they’ve been getting a pathetic battery life for the past seven years. So they actually have no clue, but they talk anyway.

I said that severe (or very noticeable) performance issues are actually noticed. How do update apologists deal with this? Well, very simple... they justify it: “well, it’s too old, what do you expect?”; “well, it has 2GB of RAM and an A9X, what do you expect?”

Are you kidding me? The A9X and 2GB of RAM combo was ridiculously powerful on iOS 9 and 10. And let me let you in on a small secret... right here in 2024? It still is. So they justify device obliteration with garbage, and people fall right into that trap.
 
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I’d love it if more people did that. I have repeatedly stated that people deny that iOS updates are awful simply because they forget. They think “battery life wasn’t a full day on its original iOS version... right?” When the truth is that maybe it wasn’t the best battery life ever, but it was definitely sufficient.

I do think people notice the large performance issues, like keyboard lag. If you have keyboard lag, you know it wasn’t always there. Little things like delayed response times and other small glitches? They definitely forget. Because they will inexplicably and incredibly claim “it’s fine for me”. Yeah the hell it is. You just don’t remember, and the sad part is that it wouldn’t even matter. You want to fool yourself into thinking it’s just as good? Go right ahead. But don’t mislead others.

Take the iPhone 6s. Anyone would tell you that battery life has been horrible since iOS 13. But ask them how many think battery life was ever good and they will say it wasn’t. False. On iOS 9 and 10 it was enough for moderate users. More than enough. But what’s the problem? The problem is that they’ve been getting a pathetic battery life for the past seven years. So they actually have no clue, but they talk anyway.

I said that severe (or very noticeable) performance issues are actually noticed. How do update apologists deal with this? Well, very simple... they justify it: “well, it’s too old, what do you expect?”; “well, it has 2GB of RAM and an A9X, what do you expect?”

Are you kidding me? The A9X and 2GB of RAM combo was ridiculously powerful on iOS 9 and 10. And let me let you in on a small secret... right here in 2024? It still is. So they justify device obliteration with garbage, and people fall right into that trap.
I think it's as simple as most people don't care. My iPhone 12 is definitely laggy on iOS 17 (I think because of the 86% battery health) because Apple hasn't optimized it properly. It's annoying, but I can still use it instead of spending money for a new battery or phone when I technically don't need one. If it was something more subtle than obvious lag it would be even easier.
 
If I could go back to iOS 16, I would.

But since I can't, I'll join in the rant. Keyboard lag, stutters in returning to the home screen, and the battery is at 89%. What I find most interesting is that the stutters and lag just started in the last few days, but it's been on iOS 17.3.1 and 89% battery capacity for ages.
 
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I think it's as simple as most people don't care. My iPhone 12 is definitely laggy on iOS 17 (I think because of the 86% battery health) because Apple hasn't optimized it properly. It's annoying, but I can still use it instead of spending money for a new battery or phone when I technically don't need one. If it was something more subtle than obvious lag it would be even easier.
I don’t know really... the #1 upgrade reason I read for those using iPhones and iPads that are a few years old (so not serial upgraders) is that whatever the current iOS version for that device is at the time just destroyed it.

I don’t think that people don’t care, I think they accept it. “I just want to update. If in four years my device is destroyed then it’s destroyed, whatever, I might get a new one, I may not, but I’ll have compatibility”.

And I think there’s a key factor here too: people are misinformed. I’ve read a ridiculous claim several times that I will use as an example because it fits: Somebody was running iOS 15 on a pretty recent iPhone or iPad when that version was the latest. They were considering keeping it there due to a bad experience with updates. Several replies were “maybe not now, but compatibility will be garbage two years from now”.

...What? That just tells me that you’ve never in your entire life used an outdated device. There are ways to circumvent a lot of issues and compatibility will absolutely not plummet; in fact, iOS 15 is absolutely great today. iOS 9 isn’t, and everything has a limit, but it doesn’t fall apart in two years (or three).

So they think that, or they panic because of security updates, or they want features, and they update. Then they have to tolerate garbage.

They tolerate garbage because they tell you that it’s not great just like you’re telling me now.

Now I have a question to ask you that applies for the rest. You’ve been using iOS devices for years, right? Why don’t you try staying behind? When you upgrade the iPhone, or when you get an iPad, keep it on the original iOS version. The iPhone 12 launched with iOS 14. Keep it, wait three years until three major updates go by, then tell me how it works. Tell me how battery life is.

Because all of the people who tell others that some of my devices are too old and henceforth what do you expect have no idea what they’re talking about.

My iPhone Xʀ is just as good as the 15 Pro Max in terms of general performance. All of these 15 Pro Max battery life numbers I’m seeing? I obliterate them with my Xʀ. It is due to my efficiency, but even with heavier usage I can comfortably get 12 hours of SOT. I don’t think anyone would complain about that even on the latest iPhones.

Go ask iOS 17 Xʀ users if they can get anywhere near that. So I will tell you again what I tell everyone: try staying behind with one device you use a lot. Let me know what you think. You have had a poor experience with the iPhone 12, perhaps it is a good time to try.

What’s the worst thing that can happen? If nothing works and compatibility is trash? You update! You can do it at any moment you wish.
 
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I don’t know really... the #1 upgrade reason I read for those using iPhones and iPads that are a few years old (so not serial upgraders) is that whatever the current iOS version for that device is at the time just destroyed it.

I don’t think that people don’t care, I think they accept it. “I just want to update. If in four years my device is destroyed then it’s destroyed, whatever, I might get a new one, I may not, but I’ll have compatibility”.

And I think there’s a key factor here too: people are misinformed. I’ve read a ridiculous claim several times that I will use as an example because it fits: Somebody was running iOS 15 on a pretty recent iPhone or iPad when that version was the latest. They were considering keeping it there due to a bad experience with updates. Several replies were “maybe not now, but compatibility will be garbage two years from now”.

...What? That just tells me that you’ve never in your entire life used an outdated device. There are ways to circumvent a lot of issues and compatibility will absolutely not plummet; in fact, iOS 15 is absolutely great today. iOS 9 isn’t, and everything has a limit, but it doesn’t fall apart in two years (or three).

So they think that, or they panic because of security updates, or they want features, and they update. Then they have to tolerate garbage.

They tolerate garbage because they tell you that it’s not great just like you’re telling me now.

Now I have a question to ask you that applies for the rest. You’ve been using iOS devices for years, right? Why don’t you try staying behind? When you upgrade the iPhone, or when you get an iPad, keep it on the original iOS version. The iPhone 12 launched with iOS 14. Keep it, wait three years until three major updates go by, then tell me how it works. Tell me how battery life is.

Because all of the people who tell others that some of my devices are too old and henceforth what do you expect have no idea what they’re talking about.

My iPhone Xʀ is just as good as the 15 Pro Max in terms of general performance. All of these 15 Pro Max battery life numbers I’m seeing? I obliterate them with my Xʀ. It is due to my efficiency, but even with heavier usage I can comfortably get 12 hours of SOT. I don’t think anyone would complain about that even on the latest iPhones.

Go ask iOS 17 Xʀ users if they can get anywhere near that. So I will tell you again what I tell everyone: try staying behind with one device you use a lot. Let me know what you think. You have had a poor experience with the iPhone 12, perhaps it is a good time to try.

What’s the worst thing that can happen? If nothing works and compatibility is trash? You update! You can do it at any moment you wish.
I only got the 12 fairly recently to replace my XS where the mic stopped working, so iOS 17 is the only OS I've used on it.

In the past I have waited a few months to update when it seemed to have a negative impact but eventually upgrade for new features/security. My 2016 SE on iOS 14 is the only time I haven't fully updated.

When Apple started signing iOS 6 for the 4S again a few years ago I did downgrade it and it was clearly much better performance than on iOS 9, but a lot of stuff no longer worked.
 
I only got the 12 fairly recently to replace my XS where the mic stopped working, so iOS 17 is the only OS I've used on it.

In the past I have waited a few months to update when it seemed to have a negative impact but eventually upgrade for new features/security. My 2016 SE on iOS 14 is the only time I haven't fully updated.

When Apple started signing iOS 6 for the 4S again a few years ago I did downgrade it and it was clearly much better performance than on iOS 9, but a lot of stuff no longer worked.
The iPhone 4s on iOS 9 is one of the worst experiences ever, it’s ridiculous Apple approved that. 32-bit devices were always obliterated and left unusable, though.

If you ever have an iPhone or an iPad on its original iOS version, try leaving it there for a while. Trust me, you won’t care about features when your devices work perfectly four years down the road and your device “compatriots” struggle with a third of the battery life gone and keyboard lag everywhere.

This becomes way more apparent when the reaches the end of its support run.
I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 10. It gets 8 hours of SOT, 6 on cellular, works flawlessly. Go ask 6s users on iOS 15 how it runs. It is utter garbage. Battery life is less than three hours, keyboard lag and lag everywhere, garbage. Compatibility isn’t good, but it was good for years and I enjoyed the device as if it were the latest iPhone (because they work like that) for years. As long as you don’t expect it to run forever, it’ll work.

Like I said somewhere, I’m writing this from an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12. It is compatible with everything I need. Flawless, flawless performance. 18 hours of SOT with light use, it is perfect. Go ask Xʀ users how they feel about battery life, the keyboard, and overall performance on iOS 17.
 
@FeliApple That’s not necessarily true regarding older devices on their last major iOS update… I have an iPhone 8 running its last update on iOS 16 and it’s surprisingly snappy with no lag problems on keyboard etc. Admittedly the battery life isn’t great but it’s a none genuine battery and gets treated badly as it spends a long time dead with no charge in a drawer.

Also is that a typo saying you get 18 hours of SOT from your iPhone Xr? Surely you mean 18 hours between charges? No way any iPhone gets 18 hours of SOT on one charge! (We wish) 😄

I had an Xr when it was released in 2018 and there’s not a chance it would get 18 hours SOT, 6-7 hours seemed typical, 5 hrs with heavy use.

The iPhone 6 & then 6s I had were pretty poor on release, I remember charging multiple times a day with those! The iPhone 7 was a slight improvement.
 
@FeliApple That’s not necessarily true regarding older devices on their last major iOS update… I have an iPhone 8 running its last update on iOS 16 and it’s surprisingly snappy with no lag problems on keyboard etc. Admittedly the battery life isn’t great but it’s a none genuine battery and gets treated badly as it spends a long time dead with no charge in a drawer.

Also is that a typo saying you get 18 hours of SOT from your iPhone Xr? Surely you mean 18 hours between charges? No way any iPhone gets 18 hours of SOT on one charge! (We wish) 😄

I had an Xr when it was released in 2018 and there’s not a chance it would get 18 hours SOT, 6-7 hours seemed typical, 5 hrs with heavy use.

The iPhone 6 & then 6s I had were pretty poor on release, I remember charging multiple times a day with those! The iPhone 7 was a slight improvement.
The iPhone 8 is widely considered garbage on iOS 16, especially in terms of battery life. No keyboard lag? Odd, I’ve seen it reported. I know the iPhone 8 is great on iOS 14, though.

I do get 18 hours of screen-on time, no typo. From what you mentioned (5 hours on the Xʀ and multiple charges a day on the 6 and 6s on original iOS versions), you are probably a very heavy user, in which case it’s logical. I get 8 hours today on an iPhone 6s on iOS 10 I’m still using. I don’t even get 5 hours from my Xʀ on iOS 12 with heavy outdoors and LTE camera use. 5 hours on an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 is ridiculously heavy.

No iPhone has good battery life at full brightness with heavy usage. If that’s your use-case, you’ll always struggle. No efficiency on any iOS version can compensate for the massive power draw that a very heavy usage pattern incurs. This is the case as well with iPads, MacBooks, anything.
 
Well, so was I, but „only” for 20-25 years.

Of course the 13 mini runs fine. When you update it regularly, you don’t notice that.

But take any Apple device, play with it for a couple of weeks, then skip two OSs (like I did, iOS 15 to 17) and tell me you don’t feel a massive difference.

I have automatic updates enabled on all my devices and then, of course you do not notice it. It’s this huge jump that makes you feel the enormous difference. I bought the mini 13 and it had iOS 15 on it.

Yes, I would imagine such a jump would shock the system, quite a bit.

My response was really directed towards your decisive admonishment of installing iOS17 on the iPhone 13 Mini (and--in particular--that said update had ruined your phone).

I probably shouldn't have responded (note-to-self), but such an audacious herald-to-arms must invariably be met with flowers planted into the cup of such a trebuchet ;)
 
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