My XB1 copy arrived today. Will have a try later this evening. I just installed it and downloaded the patch so it will be good to go when I get around to it.
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Doom
- Thread starter maflynn
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Yup. Though to be fair, there were 10 years, and a lot of Quakes between Doom 2 and 3.
To get down to the enthusiast arguments for a second, I'd say that that jump between Doom 3, and...er...DOOM is probably the best example of the diminishing returns in graphics that we've been seeing over the last few years. All things considered, DOOM is as much of an upgrade to Doom 3 as it was to Doom 2. The thing is, the jump from a sprite based 2.5D environment to a realtime lit full 3D one is a lot more profound from a presentation standpoint than the jump from the full 3D to a radiosity lit, PBR based material renderer.
I agree. We're getting to the point of photo realism with our current displays so there's not much left to do. The next big leap is VR, and who knows what the leap after will be.
VR is gonna be a hard sell - I tried the Oculus Rift at Best Buy and it's cool but that thing hanging off your head...
The next big thing consumer wise would be 4K/60
Agreed. A graphical evolution should include all the FPS titles of ID - than it's more represantable (and interesting). Doom II came immediately after Doom if I recall correctly so that's not really saying much.
Also, IIRC, Doom3 had some crazy minimal requirements when it came out (I remember the Demo hardly run on my friends PC, who had a beast compared to mine or the average joe's). ID games were for a long time really demanding benchmarks pushing technology - that's not the case anymore. Also, I'd wager that framerates and resolution are more important (or noticable) since the graphics (seen as stills) aren't raising general bars anymore that much higher.
But seeing all these demons at the same time I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been possible for Doom3. One major downside is the difference between dead demons staying visible for the rest of the time spent within a level (Romero made a huge point about that being very important to the atmosphere and I totally agree) compared to the sudden disappearance we have nowadays. Especially since one spends quite some time after areas are cleared to check out the map and hunt for secrets - feels totally desolate - which isn't completely out of character either - but imagine all your dead fiendish demons laying around afterwards - that'll be one of the (important) next steps in the evolution in such games imo.
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I'm not being bowled over tbh ... it's alright. Then I'm not being bowled over other than graphically by Uncharted 4 either. Maybe I'm just being a miserable sod.
As I continue with the game, that's my general feeling as well. Its ok, but I am feeling a bit underwhelmed by it
I'm sure there's an entire graphical history of Id video out there somewhere. I'll see if I can dig one up here in a bit.
I grabbed D3 the day it came out, and even my fairly decent machine had trouble pushing it above 30 FPS at 1280x1024. It was a hefty game.
The saddest thing is the days of Id games being THE benchmark for computer graphics are long since over. Since Carmack left to work on rockets and VR, they don't have anyone on site pushing engines into insane places anymore. Really, with only Tim Willits left at the company from the old crew, I don't even know what to expect from Id anymore. I guess they'll ride their old catalog for awhile, but what can we look forward to from them in the future?
Though even if Carmack were still around, the days of massive graphic upgrades are gone. It's more about fidelity and efficiency these days. This isn't to say that graphics aren't important, but once we've touched true photorealism, there isn't much more you can do.
For a good example, look at this UE4 demo...
I mean what can you do beyond that? Once we can reach this level of lighting quality and detail in outdoor environments (which we're probably not too far from), there isn't anywhere else to really go. I guess the good news is that graphics will become more about art style and creativity than pimping the newest shiny effects the latest GPUs can do. I guess looking at game screenshots will be like looking at movie stills. It'll be more about the composition of the scene, than the specular shading and normalmaps.
Like Dagless said, the future is probably in VR. About creating the technology to offer a more immersive experience. That, and AI.
Oh, you don't have to do that just for me - I play Id games still on regular basis. Unfortunately Quake II (and the successors) are on the index here. Id were (still are imo, although quite different) for FPS what Lucas Arts were for Point n Click adventures - nothing compares to them. I love how the new Wolfenstein(s) and Doom'16 work together hand in hand - bare-bones-back-to-the-roots shooter while putting different gamplay (or storytelling) mechanics in the spotlight.
I agree, although you still can see where they have to do compromises. But yea, playing Battlefront on Endor for example..that was a revelation to me. VR will have a looong way to go still. And I'm not entirely sure it'll succeed, 3d movies haven't revolutionized the cinema (imo). Let's cross fingers that once we reached a point were these silly graphic comparisons over some background effects nobody really notices in the first place stopped, companies put more emphasis on innovative or fun gameplay again. It's sorely needed.
The more I play it the more I think it's lacking something that would otherwise make it a classic.
Something about the visuals and setting seems off, like it's too polished. Doom 1-3 all had organic, haunting structures. They were visually dirty and rusty, where the new one is glossy and clean. As if someone went through with a vacuum cleaner whilst the game was installing. It's in the music/ambient sounds too. I'm going to have to think on this one a bit more
I still think it's an outstanding game though.
Something about the visuals and setting seems off, like it's too polished. Doom 1-3 all had organic, haunting structures. They were visually dirty and rusty, where the new one is glossy and clean. As if someone went through with a vacuum cleaner whilst the game was installing. It's in the music/ambient sounds too. I'm going to have to think on this one a bit more
I still think it's an outstanding game though.
I'm about 4 hours in ... I'm thoroughly underwhelmed. Utterly run of the mill, rinse repeat gameplay and monotonous repetition of the half dozen enemies repeated over and over.
Wolfenstien New Order & Old Blood are much better imho.
Wolfenstien New Order & Old Blood are much better imho.
The more I play it the more I think it's lacking something that would otherwise make it a classic.
Something about the visuals and setting seems off, like it's too polished. Doom 1-3 all had organic, haunting structures. They were visually dirty and rusty, where the new one is glossy and clean. As if someone went through with a vacuum cleaner whilst the game was installing. It's in the music/ambient sounds too. I'm going to have to think on this one a bit more
I still think it's an outstanding game though.
Good post and I agree. This won't be a classic (which even Doom3 - although not a 'real' doom game- is), but I have no problem with that either. I think the reason for that is that it's for the most part a compromise to attract a large audience while not following the regular fps gameplay rules. Eventually in parts because the original designers are absent (although I don't think that's the case here).
The praise it gets from a lot of people,myself included, comes to a good part by the fact that there really aren't any modern shooters like that out there to play any more - and not only because the game itself is pure perfection.
The good thing is: the old Doom games aged beautifully (imo) so I can just play them without any compromises. The bad thing: would snapmap have been a full blown map-editor and not just a dumbed down consolized version (still ok and easily accessible) the possibilities would have been unlimited.
I also think that this one, despite the in-your-face gore (love it!
), lacks the utter horror the originals had. Like the moving walls completely made outta flesh with screaming heads, torsi on spikes, bodies on spikes still moving, etc etc. or the more abstract 'horrors' like running within a futuristic compound completely made out of metal, opening a secret entrance and finding yourself suddenly within a completely wooden structure - on mars. But I disgress..
Same here, its definitely an underwhelming experience, I'm not sure if its the polished visual, because (at least for me), they're excellent but I agree its less haunting. The game seems to be more about being gory, then suspenseful.
Unlike the two Wolfenstein games that came out of the PS4, which had solid story lines, this is just walking around killing and while I don't expect indepth storylines in Doom, it does seem rather weak in that one area.
Yeah that's what I'm feeling exactly.
Quake 4 and even Doom 3 as mediocre games they were, at least set up a world gone to **** better. They had a protagonist who was motivated by survival, not just because they woke up on a slab and found a gun that goes bang.
If my character doesn't care about what's going on, why should I ?
It just doesn't feel 'epic' or set in a universe that has depth. Wolfenstien New Order and Old Blood did, and you understood what and why you were going from point A to point B, rather than merely 'just because that's how the level is laid out'....
It's meh ! But a near 60fps meh at least.
God, I hate when videogames try to have "stories"...
Gonna start a Doom fest tonight - must have gotten the last copy of Doom 3 BFG for XB360 which includes I and II - I put it in to find out you can also play them XBox One! (No wonder copies have disappeared).
Spent last night finding a way to hold the Wii U Controller almost still while playing Starfox Zero...
I'm still playing through it and I'll likely 100% it at some point, but I don't know if I'd go back to it. The gameplay is starting to grind a bit. Every battle seems to be the same but in slightly different environments. The boss fights are nice and retro at least.
I made a procedurally generated game once upon a time, and to keep it feeling fresh I added in environmental situations where the rules would change. I think Doom 4 needs some of those. Like, could we have anti-gravity sections or maybe slowed down battles? Maybe add modifiers to enemies to change their rules. Gosh I don't know we've got all this Hell and magic stuff going on so why can't the Doom Marine affect the environment like controlling the flow of time or weather or gravity. Be so neat if you could go into these huge battles with a simple strategy, and be able to change it half way.
Mentally I keep going back to Crysis and reminding myself how much I loved that game because of the variety of ways you could tackle a situation.
Part of what made Doom great was how simple it was. They've taken that simplicity and spread it out too thin with Doom 4, I think.
I made a procedurally generated game once upon a time, and to keep it feeling fresh I added in environmental situations where the rules would change. I think Doom 4 needs some of those. Like, could we have anti-gravity sections or maybe slowed down battles? Maybe add modifiers to enemies to change their rules. Gosh I don't know we've got all this Hell and magic stuff going on so why can't the Doom Marine affect the environment like controlling the flow of time or weather or gravity. Be so neat if you could go into these huge battles with a simple strategy, and be able to change it half way.
Mentally I keep going back to Crysis and reminding myself how much I loved that game because of the variety of ways you could tackle a situation.
Part of what made Doom great was how simple it was. They've taken that simplicity and spread it out too thin with Doom 4, I think.
Yeah, that's how I'm starting to feel. I think the biggest difference is that in Doom 1 & 2, monsters were all over the maps. You never knew what was around that next corner. Doom 4 leans exclusively on arena battles, with nothing in between. You've got stretches of empty halls, then...okay, big room. I'm going to get swarmed.
It was awesome fun at first, but when that's ALL you do, it starts wearing a little thin after awhile.
Fortunately for us, we have Snack Maps to look forward to. It's not as indepth as all the previous Doom editors, but I'm willing to bet that the community is going to pull out some great stuff with it.
edit: Speaking of the Doom community, I just discovered this...
BRUTAL DOOM 64!
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I was gonna return dark souls and get this doom game for ps4 but it sounds like this game is lacking...is it?
I think it is, the game is basically an arena game shooting the demons. The developers replaced the horror with gore and the game play seems to be the same as you go through the single player campaign. I've put the game down in May and have not picked it back up
Same here. I was bored to death with Doom and quit about halfway through then sold the game.
Thanks for saving some money...ill wait for used copy.
Yeah, I may see about trading it into gamestop or something.
I'm still so confused over this game. I can't get it into words.
But, no matter my thoughts I'm still going back and trying to 100% it. I don't think I'll ever play the multiplayer portion, and my time in the Snapmap thing was not enjoyable. It doesn't matter how complex the editor is when the gameplay is so unvaried.
Ultimately I feel like this is an Unreal Tournament game. It's a multiplayer game that was tweaked to run a single player campaign that's just a bunch of bots running around standard-issue arenas. It has made me go back to Doom 1+2 on XBLA to remind myself what the original was.
Oh, and the Classic levels aren't that good. I expected the whole game ported over but we only got like 10 or so maps all plucked from Doom 1 and 2.
But, no matter my thoughts I'm still going back and trying to 100% it. I don't think I'll ever play the multiplayer portion, and my time in the Snapmap thing was not enjoyable. It doesn't matter how complex the editor is when the gameplay is so unvaried.
Ultimately I feel like this is an Unreal Tournament game. It's a multiplayer game that was tweaked to run a single player campaign that's just a bunch of bots running around standard-issue arenas. It has made me go back to Doom 1+2 on XBLA to remind myself what the original was.
Oh, and the Classic levels aren't that good. I expected the whole game ported over but we only got like 10 or so maps all plucked from Doom 1 and 2.