Drobo S vs. Promise DS 4600 vs. other?

[TWLreal]

I thought it was the other way around. As in Snow Leopard runs in 64-bit by default and that the Drobo Dashboard was 32-bit and that caused issue.

But I think they've since updated it to be 64-bit:

http://support.datarobotics.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/370

Drobo Dashboard versions 1.6.6 and later:

Drobo Dashboard 1.6.6 and later fully support OS X 64-bit mode.

In any case, what's with the thing about Drobo Dashboard setting up a 16TB partition initially even if you don't have 16TB? How does that work?

Will OS X mount a 16TB drive and display a 16TB drive on your desktop but the Drobo Dashboard will limit your usable space to only the real available space?

 

[sapporobaby]

I thought it was the other way around. As in Snow Leopard runs in 64-bit by default and that the Drobo Dashboard was 32-bit and that caused issue.

But I think they've since updated it to be 64-bit:

http://support.datarobotics.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/370

In any case, what's with the thing about Drobo Dashboard setting up a 16TB partition initially even if you don't have 16TB? How does that work?

Will OS X mount a 16TB drive and display a 16TB drive on your desktop but the Drobo Dashboard will limit your usable space to only the real available space?

The default is 16TB. I set mine at 10 and it shows what's left. I asked about this and the guy at Drobo (tech support) explained it but I forgot. Just put yours to 8TB and you will get 8TB readings from here on out. As for the Dashboard, you could be correct. I just installed it and it worked. Like I said, fire and forget. It just runs. You can set up notifications as well for events.

Edit: Just looked things up. The Dashboard does not appear to be 64bit. See attached photo.

 

[TWLreal]

Wouldn't that be an issue for you when you replace your current 2TB drives to larger capacity ones? Unless you don't mind having a few different volumes instead of a single one.

http://support.datarobotics.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23

Thin Provisioning

You can format your Drobo device's volume size as 1TB, 2TB, 4TB, 8TB or 16TB (even without having that much disk space). This ability to format your volume to be larger than available disk space is called “thin provisioning.” It allows you to grow into a single, large volume over time rather than needing multiple smaller volumes. However, keep in mind some operating systems have a 2TB per-volume limit (as detailed in the chart above).

I think setting it as a 16TB or 20TB in your case from the beginning allows you to grow your single volume to the specified size over time rather than creating multiple smaller volumes.

I was just wondering how OS X handled seeing 16TB but only have, let's say 8TB with four 2TB drives of real capacity.

 

[Sensamic]

If I buy the Drobo S ill use it with 3TB drives directly from the beginning. They are already available for the Drobo S.

I would prefer to buy the standard Drobo with 4 bays, but If read so much negative things about this one that I prefer to pay more to have better performance.

When macs come with USB 3.0, the Drobo S will take advantage of that and its performance will be a little better. So its more future proof.

 

[TWLreal]

When macs come with USB 3.0, the Drobo S will take advantage of that and its performance will be a little better. So its more future proof.

It comes down to how you use your device.

A Drobo S is $799 while a Drobo is $349. That extra $450 lets you fill up the $349 device with four 2TB drives with change. The speed advantage is insignificant if you are to use the Drobo as a storage device only, like I will. I don't care much about the speed my transfers are.

If you do need the performance in a Drobo, by all means, get the Drobo S or FS and enjoy USB 3.0 or Gigabit Ethernet but even FireWire 800 has been known to saturate throughput in Drobos so anything will only be as fast as your internal drives. Not to mention BeyondRAID and X-RAID are another bottleneck right there in these devices.

Anyway, if one is to get into the Drobo system, one should be well aware that pure performance isn't their strong suit.

 

[sapporobaby]

Hey guys (Sensamic and TWLreal),

I stream from my Drobo S HD video over FW800 and have had no problems at all. None. My entire iTunes lib resides on the Drobo and it performs as advertised. Have not had any speed issues at all.

 

[TWLreal]

Oh, I have no doubts that it can do that. It would be outrageous if it couldn't.

I'm just saying I wouldn't expect BeyondRAID and X-RAID systems to have the same level of performance as a standard RAID.

 

[Ruahrc]

Hey guys (Sensamic and TWLreal),

I stream from my Drobo S HD video over FW800 and have had no problems at all. None. My entire iTunes lib resides on the Drobo and it performs as advertised. Have not had any speed issues at all.

Streaming a single HD video is child's play. A single hard disk connected via USB2.0 could handle that with ease. Streaming music is easy, even over an internet connection.

It's streaming 4, 6, 8 HD streams at once, that's where high performance demands are needed, and where things like the Drobo begin to fall against other solutions. What is the need for 4 HD streams? It is in video editing workflows, or in multi-user systems that you need the real kind of bandwidth that a high end RAID can deliver.

 

[Sensamic]

If I were to play HD movies from iTunes I would buy the 4-bay Drobo. HD movies in iTunes are HD rips. Whats their size? Less than 5GB I suppose, right? Not more than 10GB for sure.

I dont buy movies in iTunes because here in Spain that service has just started and its pretty poor at the moment. I have some 10-15GB HD movies on my collection, and I plan to start downloading 40GB HD movies soon. So its not the same for the Drobo to play or stream iTunes HD movies than to play or stream 40GB BD-Full videos files.

Thats why I'm aiming at the just released Drobo S. I have my doubts that the standard Drobo can play a 40GB video file. On the other hand, the new Drobo S, having a better processor or CPU or whatever, plus USB 3.0 (for the future), has a better chance to play more smooth those big video files.

If I were to use the Drobo just for storage, then I would get the standard Drobo too. I plan on using it with my Mac Mini and Plex. And I've read so much bad reviews on the internet that I want to buy one of the best models in the hope that I will get the performance desired.

If I could I would buy a NAS, but I dont have a gigabit network on my home. I was looking at the OWC Qx2, which looks great, but I dont like the idea of buying such an expensive product for use outside of the US. I can buy the Drobo here in Spain, with the correct power cord, etc.

 

[sapporobaby]

Streaming a single HD video is child's play. A single hard disk connected via USB2.0 could handle that with ease. Streaming music is easy, even over an internet connection.

It's streaming 4, 6, 8 HD streams at once, that's where high performance demands are needed, and where things like the Drobo begin to fall against other solutions. What is the need for 4 HD streams? It is in video editing workflows, or in multi-user systems that you need the real kind of bandwidth that a high end RAID can deliver.

So. Streaming for my needs works for me, thus the Drobo is more than enough for me. If you need a high-end solution then good on you and have at it.

 

[Sensamic]

Just received this email from Data Robotics:


Yes our new Drobo S with USB 3.0 includes SATA 6.0 ports however our backplane is 3.0.



I asked them if the new Drobo S has SATA 6.0 ports, so it could benefit from the speeds.

I think finally I wont buy the Drobo and instead I'll buy a bunch of 2TB drives. Its not as neat as the Drobo but its more cheap and I think I'll get better performance. You get better performance when a volume is less than 2TB than when its bigger than 10TB. So, theoretically, I should be able to see better writes and reads on any external hard drive with USB 2.0 than with the Drobo, even if its connected by FW800. Is this correct?

Plus, I could buy some that already have USB 3.0 and when Macs come with USB 3.0 I would see the benefits of those speeds. Today many external drives dont even have a fan, so they are more quiet than the Drobo, almost silent I should say.

Having four external hard drives connected to the four Mac Minis USB ports I should not see bad performance. I could watch an HD movie from one of them while copying data onto another at the same time. As they are connected to different ports, using different cables, then its not like the Drobo, where if you try and do these two things at the same time the playback may suffer, probably because the Drobo is connected by only one cable.

With the cost of the new Drobo S I could buy 12TB divided into 6 external hard drives. In the future, if Macs come with LightPeak or eSata or whatever, then its easier for me to update the hard drives than it would to buy another Drobo.

Also, possible downtime is very very important. If my data is spread across different external drives, then its much more safe than the Drobo. I could have an exact copy of each drive on another drive and it would be very easy to have back all my data. If one drive fails, I still got the other 5 working perfectly. With the Drobo, it scares me that a corrupt drive may harm the other ones inside. Plus, with their propietary RAID I wouldnt be able to use the drive on another computer unless I format it first. If one of my drives fails then I ask for a replacement under the warranty. With the Drobo, after one drive fails, theres the possibility of losing all of the data if another one fails. That would not happen with separate drives.

Considering all this, the only advantage I see in the Drobo (or any other RAID array) is that I could have up to 5 drives or more in one single unit. That is very very nice, but also very very expensive. Maybe it wont matter too much to have 5 or 6 external drives next to the Mini. I have a place where to put them so they wont be seen or heard. I would buy ones than turn on and off with the computer at the same time.

I would have 4 or 5 external drives:

- 1 for HD movies only
- 1 for movies in standard quality
- 1 for ended shows
- 1 for current shows

That way everything is nicely placed and its easy to do backups. One exact copy of each drive and youre good to go in case of disaster.

In the future, when 3TB drives are cheaper, I would buy one or two for the HD movies.

What do you guys think of this setup? Better than a Drobo or any other RAID array? Definitely cheaper. A LOT. Performance is not an issue either when USB 3.0 is around the corner. I have a Lacie 2TB in RAID 0 connected by USB to the Mac Mini 2010 and I can play every video file I got. Yesterday I converted to MKV my BD copy of 'Avatar' using MakeMKV and it played perfectly. Will other USB 2.0 external drives work as good?

 

[sapporobaby]

Just received this email from Data Robotics:


Yes our new Drobo S with USB 3.0 includes SATA 6.0 ports however our backplane is 3.0.



I asked them if the new Drobo S has SATA 6.0 ports, so it could benefit from the speeds.

I think finally I wont buy the Drobo and instead I'll buy a bunch of 2TB drives. Its not as neat as the Drobo but its more cheap and I think I'll get better performance. You get better performance when a volume is less than 2TB than when its bigger than 10TB. So, theoretically, I should be able to see better writes and reads on any external hard drive with USB 2.0 than with the Drobo, even if its connected by FW800. Is this correct?

Plus, I could buy some that already have USB 3.0 and when Macs come with USB 3.0 I would see the benefits of those speeds. Today many external drives dont even have a fan, so they are more quiet than the Drobo, almost silent I should say.

Having four external hard drives connected to the four Mac Minis USB ports I should not see bad performance. I could watch an HD movie from one of them while copying data onto another at the same time. As they are connected to different ports, using different cables, then its not like the Drobo, where if you try and do these two things at the same time the playback may suffer, probably because the Drobo is connected by only one cable.

With the cost of the new Drobo S I could buy 12TB divided into 6 external hard drives. In the future, if Macs come with LightPeak or eSata or whatever, then its easier for me to update the hard drives than it would to buy another Drobo.

Also, possible downtime is very very important. If my data is spread across different external drives, then its much more safe than the Drobo. I could have an exact copy of each drive on another drive and it would be very easy to have back all my data. If one drive fails, I still got the other 5 working perfectly. With the Drobo, it scares me that a corrupt drive may harm the other ones inside. Plus, with their propietary RAID I wouldnt be able to use the drive on another computer unless I format it first. If one of my drives fails then I ask for a replacement under the warranty. With the Drobo, after one drive fails, theres the possibility of losing all of the data if another one fails. That would not happen with separate drives.

Considering all this, the only advantage I see in the Drobo (or any other RAID array) is that I could have up to 5 drives or more in one single unit. That is very very nice, but also very very expensive. Maybe it wont matter too much to have 5 or 6 external drives next to the Mini. I have a place where to put them so they wont be seen or heard. I would buy ones than turn on and off with the computer at the same time.

I would have 4 or 5 external drives:

- 1 for HD movies only
- 1 for movies in standard quality
- 1 for ended shows
- 1 for current shows

That way everything is nicely placed and its easy to do backups. One exact copy of each drive and youre good to go in case of disaster.

In the future, when 3TB drives are cheaper, I would buy one or two for the HD movies.

What do you guys think of this setup? Better than a Drobo or any other RAID array? Definitely cheaper. A LOT. Performance is not an issue either when USB 3.0 is around the corner. I have a Lacie 2TB in RAID 0 connected by USB to the Mac Mini 2010 and I can play every video file I got. Yesterday I converted to MKV my BD copy of 'Avatar' using MakeMKV and it played perfectly. Will other USB 2.0 external drives work as good?

1. With the 5 extra drives on the Mini, all of your USB ports are taken up by your drives. No expansion for anything else that uses USB unless you use a hub and this can cause problems in itself.
2. USB does not have individual controllers like FW. What makes FW fast is the fact that it does not have to return to the CPU for processing. Your 5 USB drives would start to max the USB controller and CPU. Can you say 100% utilization?
3. If one or two of my Drobo drives fail, i still have backup of my data. I suggest you go to the Drobo site and read up on what they say as you seem a bit confused or misinformed.
4. Explain the data corruption part again because this makes no sense to me since the Drobo is geared to prevent this.
5. Nevermind. Do what you want to do. This is going way to far down the rabbit hole for me to even care anymore. I hope things work out for you.

P.S. You know that if your drives fails in a RAID 0, you lose your data right?

Check out: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/67628/. Look at the part about RAID 0. Anyway, I am unsubscribing from this thread faster than a cat can lick its ass.

Hey TWLreal, if you want to contact me, send me a PM. I will not respond to this thread anymore.

 

[Sensamic]

sapporobaby why so serious?

It doesnt matter which option anyone chooses as long as theyre happy with it. Im just trying to decide which is going to be my setup. Ive been reading stuff about the Drobos since last year, so I have a very good idea of how they work, their advantages, limitations, etc.

For the past two months Ive started looking at other solutions, like the OWC Qx2. I have an OWC SSD and Im extremely happy with it. No problems so far. I do understand how RAID 0, 1, 5, 6 and 10 work. Ive even read unraid, SHR (Synology Hybrid Raid), etc.

Ive read almost anything I can find on the web about all these products. Just right now Ive read a new review about the Drobo S 2nd Gen on amazon.com. It says that through eSata he achieved 95mbp/s. If I could get that speed I would definitely go for the Drobo, but the Mac Mini does not have eSata. Reviews about its performance over USB and FW800 are not that good. That why I was thinking of getting the USB 3.0 in hopes that a future Mac Mini will have it too, because I dont think they will get eSata...

About the USB stuff, I think youd only see 100% CPU usage if you were to access all of them at the same time, like playing 4 1080p movies, one from each drive. If you only watch a movie from one drive and then watch a tv show from another drive I doubt that the CPU will get up to 100%.

About the data corruption issue. Ive read many people say that a drive inside their Drobo has failed within the first year. I havent had any issue on my two Lacie external drives in more than 4 years. Go to twitter and on the search tab write Drobo and read everyones comment. Its a very good way to see their experiences. As the Drobo has a propietary RAID, no ones knows exactly what to expect. I repeat, Ive read people on twitter and on blogs say that after one drive failed their entire system was gone. Just google it and you'll see.

Anyway, I still have to do more research to finally decide which way to go. A lot of money and important data is at stake.