drop the price!

[DaveF]

They might have some people duped into thinking it's worth paying two grand for the privilege of a laptop with 1440x900 resolution, but those of us not wedded to Apple know there are lots of cheaper (and indeed, more durable and feature-filled) laptops on the market that offer MBP stats well below MBP prices.

Do those "MBP stats" include "runs OS X"?

I'm a sucker that got duped into paying over $2000 for an overpriced MBP last summer. It's my first Mac, and I don't regret any premium I paid. There was no blind fanboy nonsense on my part: after 10+ years of Windows systems, I was tired of it. I wanted a change and I got it.

Absolutely, there was a dollar premium to buy an Apple laptop. So? I paid a premium to buy my Honda instead of Huyndai. I'm a sucker there too, since they both have four wheels and thus are equivalent.

I encourage friends to consider a Mac, but it's always tempered by pricing realities. Most people want to spend as little as possible on a computer. You can buy a Windows system for $700 easily. You can't buy a Mac worth owning for under $1000. And whereas there are countless mid-range, 15" laptops for $1000 to $1500, you have to spend $2000 minimum for a 15" Mac laptop.

That's just how it is. I'd love it if Mac hardware was 30% cheaper, but it's not. So I pay what I must to get what is currently the best computer system available.

 

[heatmiser]

That's just how it is. I'd love it if Mac hardware was 30% cheaper, but it's not. So I pay what I must to get what is currently the best computer system available.

I didn't mean the only folks who bought MBPs were suckers; I do think the pricing deters lots of folks who want high specced computers but who don't need to run OS X above all else. In the end, you get what works for you.

We'd have to disagree about MBPs (or Macs in general) being the best computer systems available. I see them simply as one of many options when it comes to software and hardware. There are a number of factors besides price where I'd consider other laptop manufacturers do a much better job on hardware than Apple. One of the first that comes to mind is durability...

 

[stone315]

alright, even though dell is cheaper it's still crap. for example. my girlfriend recently got the bottom of the line macbook, with zero upgrades. still fast for what she's doing, easy to connect to wifi networks, fast internet/basic apps/random stuff i've done on it at her house. so today i'm in staples and i see all these hp and canon printers, and i'm like hey, apple's giving a $100 rebate on these, i should go check them out. so i want to find out which ones apple's rebate applies to, and i walk around the store looking for a laptop on display. only one out is a dell xps. supposedly one of dell's best laptops. i got on it, and it's a piece of crap compared to my girlfriend's bottom of the line macbook. the wifi connection process is so much more convoluted, there were random popups from windows (NOT the internet), and the speed was horrible. it took 1 to 2 minutes for apple's website to load, and the pdf file for the terms of the rebate took so long i gave up. and that's just internet. i wouldn't even want to try any big programs or multitasking. dell might be cheaper, but it's a piece of crap compared to apple. you're paying for quality. spend the extra and get the mac.

 

[DaveF]

I didn't mean the only folks who bought MBPs were suckers; I do think the pricing deters lots of folks who want high specced computers but who don't need to run OS X above all else. In the end, you get what works for you.

We'd have to disagree about MBPs (or Macs in general) being the best computer systems available. I see them simply as one of many options when it comes to software and hardware. There are a number of factors besides price where I'd consider other laptop manufacturers do a much better job on hardware than Apple. One of the first that comes to mind is durability...

I agree with what you're saying. But your critiques seem to solely focus on the hardware and cost. But hardware is secondary; it's all about the software.

FSJ, writing about Palm, critiquing their focus on hardware over software, "Last time I checked, however, smartphones are about software." The same applies to computers.

So all the comments about saving $200 over the same Mac and IBM being a bit more durable than Mac fundamentally misses the point: it's the software. Until "same specs as MBP" means "runs OS X and Apple Software", it's not a proper comparison. It ignores the the fact that a person is actually going to use the thing. And this is Apple's advantage: everyone ignores usability, now to their detriment.

So long as the Apple premium isn't so outrageous as to make the premium unaffordable, it's worthwhile.

 

[flyfish29]

If the keyboards and mouse went bad and virtually all the components. Your siblings must be ignorant(no hard feelings) or abusive.

Sorry to disappoint, but my siblings owned 9 total computers (as stated in my post above!)

My siblings are neither abusive, DCS (Division of Computer Services ) never came knocking at their door, and they are not ignorant as you state (which is uncalled for!) How does one being ignorant cause a mouse, keyboard, hard drives, or motherboards to go bad??

Ignorant- adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man or woman

by the way, no hard feelings here
.
.
.
"Let ignorance talk as it will, learning has its value."

-- Jean de La Fontaine

 

[tonie]

yeah whatever, it sounds like you're bias towards apple but whatever floats your boat.

 

[flyfish29]

yeah whatever, it sounds like you're bias towards apple but whatever floats your boat.

Bias- a particular tendency or inclination

Yes, I guess I am biased- I have a tendency to buy Apple products due to a good experience with them. I know not everyone will have a good experience with Apple products- nothing is perfect in this world. Just like I know not every PC is going to give its user as bad of an experience as my siblings. In fact, my sisters have had a couple of good ones, but overall they have been very low quality machines on the whole. I also agree that Apple's quality control is not what it used to be. I also base my "bias" towards Apple products due to knowledge I learn from other people's experiences as well as other sources like Consumer Reports and the independent computer reviews.

but you can think *whatever* you like! That is what makes our world go around. You just don't need to offend others by calling someone names...that is something a child in my second grade class does.

 

[-CHiPZ-]

" The US Apple prices are ridiculously low."

Why is it that in Aus I have to pay anywhere up to $1000 dollars more for an Apple product compared to US?

 

[Digital Skunk]

Apple laptops are expensive....

Been that way since the beginning pretty much.

You pay for what you want, even if you are doing it with blind devotion.

 

[alphaod]

See, they have to sell it for less or no one will buy it 'cause it has Windows!

Note: Don't bash me; I use Vista x64 and it's great.

 

[MacSA]

" The US Apple prices are ridiculously low."

Why is it that in Aus I have to pay anywhere up to $1000 dollars more for an Apple product compared to US?

Because we're subsidising Apple's lower pricing in the US.

 

[Eidorian]

Apple laptops are expensive....

Been that way since the beginning pretty much.

You pay for what you want, even if you are doing it with blind devotion.

I think a lot of complaints would be gone if Apple had a dedicated graphics card in the MacBook.

Apple's obsession with exterior style has pushed the thermal envelope to what you can put into a MacBook Pro. A few mm here and there means a bigger difference between the two laptops.

Not to mention if Dell can do it why can't Apple?

 

[Digital Skunk]

I think a lot of complaints would be gone if Apple had a dedicated graphics card in the MacBook.

Apple's obsession with exterior style has pushed the thermal envelope to what you can put into a MacBook Pro. A few mm here and there means a bigger difference between the two laptops.

Not to mention if Dell can do it why can't Apple?

Agreed. That and the infamous Mini Tower that oh so many clamor for. Bring the masses a BTO option for a dedicated GFX card, and a 15" MB or cheaper MBP and that would get rid of half of the complaints. Then add the sub $2000 tower and I think many would be content.

Double agree about the exterior style. You know how much I'd love to have a real desktop replacement laptop, not just with the processors and GFX card, but with the external ports and internal HDDs.

I don't mind the gear I have, and don't mind paying that premium for some of the hardware, but I would love to have some of the functionality of the PC world for my Mac only software.

 

[NEiMac]

Im not sure the price is a huge issue, its worth extra dollars to get rid of windows. I do however have a beef with the lack of a normal upgradable mac. I love my iMac but it sure would be nice to be able to stick a new graphics card in the thing. I might even consider going back to pc running Linux for my desktop, always be apple for my laptop though. THe latest Ubuntu really kind of impressed me.

 

[Padraig]

The price of the studio 15 is very attractive. If they had an option for a better graphics card and XP I'd have probably already bought one.

As for reliability, in my experience Apple's QC at the moment isn't the greatest, I've a friend working there and he has some interesting stories of what he has seen from some manufacturers (in Europe). Conversely, Dell don't deserve any medals either but their after sales service is miles ahead of Apple.

 

[Digital Skunk]

The price of the studio 15 is very attractive. If they had an option for a better graphics card and XP I'd have probably already bought one.

As for reliability, in my experience Apple's QC at the moment isn't the greatest, I've a friend working there and he has some interesting stories of what he has seen from some manufacturers (in Europe). Conversely, Dell don't deserve any medals either but their after sales service is miles ahead of Apple.

I will agree with that. I am surprised that the Studio 17 doesn't have the same GFX card option as the MBP of similar size.

And contrary to popular belief, Apple Care is a very good deal. I have fixed many a cosmetic problem/flaw on my MBP for free in less than two days.

 

[kabunaru]

They don't even make a "normal" desktop computer, just some niche products.

Define "normal" desktop computer for me?
iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro are really for niche market?

 

[Tallest Skil]

They don't even make a "normal" desktop computer, just some niche products.

Yeah, because a computer for people new to computing, a computer for all facets of home computing, and a computer for all facets of professional computing and gaming only cater to a small percentage of the market.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, because a computer for people new to computing, a computer for all facets of home computing, and a computer for all facets of professional computing and gaming only cater to a small percentage of the market.

Sometimes we have to remember that some people aren't normal.

I would like some additions to the lineup, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that Apple doesn't make a "normal" computer. I don't even know what one would classify as "normal" anyway.

People that say that, just aren't normal.

 

[Cabbit]

If Apple were to compete with dell they would need the sub $200 celeron box and sub $300 laptop. You know there is only about $6 profit there.

If you want an Apple buy an Apple if you don't then just don't, if you can't afford something don't go stealing it or trying to make a company lower the price to make it more affordable for you take your money and buy what you can afford if your poor then work to get a better job to buy nicer things.

If you live in low income housing and wait on tables for a living then go to the budget store and buy a $200 linux box or a Windows box and be happy to live in your means.

 

[asphyxiafeeling]

i think the OP has some good points.

you guys can try to justify it all you want, but when a $999 Dell can be comparable to a $1999 apple computer, that's terrible!

i understand apple is, and always has been more expensive.

perhaps 40-50% more expensive, but not 100%!

 

[Wilson1984]

I'm getting really fed-up with the cost of Apple hardware and think I'm turning to OSX86 for my next compy.

Dell just introduced a new "studio" series and the prices put the MacBookPro to shame. Same processor, Similar graphics card, more Ram, more HD and about $500 less for the Dell.

I admit that Apple's prices were more competitive about a year ago, leaning on the more expensive side. But open a Best Buy flier and you'll see more than a dozen pc laptops for under $1000

Ok. Go buy a Dell.
DUDE, YOUR GETTING A DELL!
Go post on the dell rumors forum from now on.

 

[Digital Skunk]

i think the OP has some good points.

you guys can try to justify it all you want, but when a $999 Dell can be comparable to a $1999 apple computer, that's terrible!

i understand apple is, and always has been more expensive.

perhaps 40-50% more expensive, but not 100%!

Horribly wrong. I understand the price difference, and I would like more options, but your prices are wrong. It's more like $1500 vs. $2000.

It's more like a $500 difference, still a rather large one at times, but certainly justifiable if you have the money to blow.

 

[Eidorian]

I will agree with that. I am surprised that the Studio 17 doesn't have the same GFX card option as the MBP of similar size.

And contrary to popular belief, Apple Care is a very good deal. I have fixed many a cosmetic problem/flaw on my MBP for free in less than two days.

Keep in mind that Dell does have to keep selling the XPS 1730 as well. You would think the Studio 17 would have a more powerful video card then the midrange Mobility Radeon HD 3650.

Apple only has the MacBook and MacBook Pro. The problem that Dell has is that they Inspiron, Studio, and XPS have some competing overlap in their lines. What Dell does today that they didn't do when they had fewer laptop lines was restrict their available hardware configurations.

You're going to be hard pressed to find an Inspiron laptop with a dedicated video card nowadays. It wasn't true months ago when you could drop in a DDR2 8600M GT quite easily.

Apple shot itself in the foot when they decided to go with Intel graphics in the MacBook. Now Apple can't go back on its own designs and make their laptops slightly larger or heavier to accommodate more expensive and powerful hardware.

Why doesn't the 17" MacBook Pro have dual hard drives and a full sized keyboard? I remember seeing all that empty space for a full sized keyboard on the PowerBook G4!

 

[Digital Skunk]

....

Very true. As of now I see about four different lines, though the Vostro looks to be a revamped Inspiron, correct me if I am wrong.

I would think the 1730 would be an entirely different beast especially since you can get up to 1GB of GFX processing through SLI, and the thing is a 10+ pound machine, so Dell's decision to nix the 512MB on the Studio is still a mystery.

Apple did stick themselves in a box with the intel GFX. Along with, as we all say, their design. I think just a simple option to upgrade would change a lot of people's perception of the MB, and there would be a lot less MB vs. MBP for gaming threads.

All that empty space on the 17" is still their. I'd rather not have the full sized keyboard since that means having an off center key layout and trackpad though, but you know the dual HDDs (portable Time Machine backup, scratch disk ) and possibly more than just 1 extra USB (eSata/FW800) port would be very nice.