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Dvorak on the iMac Mini
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Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Before MWSF '05: "How can Apple be so stupid and not have a low-end computer w/o a monitor?!"
After MWSF '05: "How can Apple be so stupid and have a low-end computer w/o a monitor?!"
Not that I think the Mac Mini is perfect, but cripes... Apple could release a G5 PowerMac that comes fully loaded, w/2 30" Cinema Displays, all of Apple's software pre-installed for only $799 and some people would still complain that you have to pay shipping.
It's like yesterday I heard someone say, about the Shuffle, "1gig isn't a lot of space." If you need more space buy a Mini or an iPod, you moron.
It's like geez people. You complain 'cause there aren't enough options so you get more options then complain 'cause all the options are different. It's like people expect Apple to release one uber-product that includes everything everybody wants, does everything everybody wants at a price everybody can afford.
Lethal
Before MWSF '05: "How can Apple be so stupid and not have a low-end computer w/o a monitor?!"
After MWSF '05: "How can Apple be so stupid and have a low-end computer w/o a monitor?!"
Not that I think the Mac Mini is perfect, but cripes... Apple could release a G5 PowerMac that comes fully loaded, w/2 30" Cinema Displays, all of Apple's software pre-installed for only $799 and some people would still complain that you have to pay shipping.
It's like yesterday I heard someone say, about the Shuffle, "1gig isn't a lot of space." If you need more space buy a Mini or an iPod, you moron.
It's like geez people. You complain 'cause there aren't enough options so you get more options then complain 'cause all the options are different. It's like people expect Apple to release one uber-product that includes everything everybody wants, does everything everybody wants at a price everybody can afford.
Lethal
m a y a said:I believe Bill Palmer is missing the point of the Mac mini.
Sorry Maya... you are the one missing the point... to be completely honest is not a crime... the mac mini is a rip off
It's a rip off? How in the hell is it a rip off? Because Gateway has a computer for $499 (after rebate) with monitor? Need I remind you that it's a GATEWAY? You're getting a mac for $500, that's a damned stealradio893fm said:
LethalWolfe said:
So, So true.
And this is the time of year when you see tons of newly registered users slamming the MR site with some variation of "the new product is crap, it is overpriced/underspecced/ugly/heavy/too big/too small" etc. etc. Talk about people speaking out of the wrong end.
After which Apple sells loads (ahem, c.f. iPod Mini and others).
Oh, and to be on-topic for a second, Dvorak is a pretentious twit, and his opinion is a matter of supreme indifference to me. Still, this is unusually nice for him.
Dvorak - The troll peaks out from under the bridge. Who knew you had it in you?
Palmer - Must admit that the scenario he paints is going to happen on occasion.
Clearly, the Mac mini is not for everyone. But it'll be popular with a lot of people, and it'll get people into the Apple Store to look at more than the iPod line-up. I mean, OS X, iLife, and Appleworks is a great software package, and you get a decent computer for only $200 more.
Personally, I'm responsible for the 23 Macs in our prepress department. I can't wait for a few to go up so I can get a couple of these mini's in here. They're more than sufficient for our needs, and a heckuva lot cheaper than the single processor 1.8GHz PowerMac G5.
Palmer - Must admit that the scenario he paints is going to happen on occasion.
Clearly, the Mac mini is not for everyone. But it'll be popular with a lot of people, and it'll get people into the Apple Store to look at more than the iPod line-up. I mean, OS X, iLife, and Appleworks is a great software package, and you get a decent computer for only $200 more.
Personally, I'm responsible for the 23 Macs in our prepress department. I can't wait for a few to go up so I can get a couple of these mini's in here. They're more than sufficient for our needs, and a heckuva lot cheaper than the single processor 1.8GHz PowerMac G5.
Lord Blackadder said:
Tell me about it, I guess some people really do get a kick out of mindless trolling (a good troll is something to behold, but the general quality these days is sadly lacking).
My prediction: the iPod shuffle and Mac Mini will be as much of a disappointment as the iPod Mini and the G5 iMacs were.
radio893fm said:
Sure there was another product by another company 10 years ago, however that is technology for you.
You would not say that Palm ripped off Apple's Newton.
M$ ripped off Mac OS, etc.... you get the point.
In this industry if its 10 years that is an eternity alone. Sure I never said it was a new concept then again in this industry very little is.
Counterfit said:
Individual posting before you has forgotten about good old x86 and PPC machines.
If Dell copied Gateway yes that is copying on the same x86 base. However there is no competitor for PPC at present.
Though the whole computer in a small box is not new either it has been done 10 years back by another company. Why did people not state the same for the Cube.
On occasion, I read the diatribes of Dvorak and "Turdott" right before I go to the gym because it gets the blood up. Much more natural than a coffee, soda, powerbar or line of toot.
I'm a lifetime Windows/PC user. I have experimented with Mandrake and Redhat because of desperation to get off Windows. The Mac has always been a little expensive from a hardware perspective; however, it has always been about the software. To me, it always seemed to be too much of a price to pay, to simply ditch wintels. Therefore, I view the Mac Mini as a hedge - not too much of an investment to jump outside of the matrix. It's an experiment, if you will. One I think I am going to enjoy. If not, it will be a huge bust for Apple, since I am a target customer.
However, after reading both the blogger and the reporter, I may delay my decision for about a month or so. Because I want to do DV, it's only a matter of time before I go Mac anyway...
However, after reading both the blogger and the reporter, I may delay my decision for about a month or so. Because I want to do DV, it's only a matter of time before I go Mac anyway...
LethalWolfe said:
What's even worse is that some people don't want to pay extra for what they perceive to be a crappy, single-button mouse that's they're just going to throw in a drawer and replace with the mouse they like anyways and others complain they are getting ripped off if a mouse isn't bundled. There's just no pleasing everyone. I'm glad Apple has taken this bold move that doesn't seem like what you'd expect them to do.
m a y a said:Vendors are already offering a FREE keyboard and mouse with the purchase of the Mac mini. No argument there. You can also get a low priced LCD. No argument there.
Bill Palmer is missing the point, Apple is not the only place making LCD, Keyboard and Mouse.
And Other vendors are giving free stuff with it.
PC keyboards are pretty inexpensive. You can find some generic ones for about $5. As for mice, some vendors give them away with a mousepad when you buy promotional games and what not. Apple is wise in offering a low-cost Mac that gets people hooked on using OSX.
dejo said:
True. When I was buying my Blue and White machine, I picked up a three button scroll mouse before I left the store. I've never used it or the optical Pro Mouse (which came with my QuickSilver) except for diagnostic purposes.
I like the fact that you save money on the two because I'm pleased with my Logitech equipment.
It's not nearly as bad as the days when Apple sold the Quadra line without a keyboard and the Extended Keyboard II was $159 but they included the mouse then.
I think they've done the right thing with the packaging, except for the user-inaccessible RAM. It's a great little machine.
Wow. For once I agree with Dvorak!
I do wonder, though -- if they are marketing these things to work with PC users' existing keyboards, how does that work with a mac in terms of modifier keys? How many PC converts will be hopelessly searching their PC keyboards for a command key?
I do wonder, though -- if they are marketing these things to work with PC users' existing keyboards, how does that work with a mac in terms of modifier keys? How many PC converts will be hopelessly searching their PC keyboards for a command key?
apple2991 said:
Maybe this is a sign that Apple did something right. If Dvorak understands the point of the mini, maybe simple PC users will too.
As far as Palmer, he focuses on one bad scenario, and blows it WAY out of proportion. I mean, think about it, if I wanted to save money on my computer, but still get a Mac, would I buy the Apple display, keyboard, or mouse? Heck no. I'd go buy the $30 keyboard/mouse combo, and the $100 CRT Blue Light Special.
If Apple were to put that stuff into the package, you'd have a $1600 computer, which costs $300 more than the cheapest iMac, which already has a screen, keyboard and mouse.
Palmer needs to realize that Apple did the smart thing, by not providing the parts of the system that they can't sell cheaply. If Apple were to sell an Apple branded $100 CRT, they'd be selling them at a loss, and investors would wonder what the heck Apple was doing.
Lets face it, the Mini's aren't all going to be bought at Apple stores. People are going to see them online, or in a CompUSA, where they will have more of a choice with what monitor and keyboard/mouse to get. Apple's stuff doesn't always fit in with everybody's lifestyle, or paycheck, so by only selling the computer, they're allowing people to buy the things they want, not what Apple tells them to buy. This, if you ask me, makes it more comfortable for new users coming to the Mac from the PC world. Besides, if they're coming from a world of Microsoft, understanding what you need for the Mini can't be harder than using the computer they already have.
The Mac mini is exactly what was needed: its got plenty of power (for a consumer machine), and is priced so low that there is no excuse for someone NOT to buu it.
As far as them not including a keyboard/mouse, I think it is a good idea. While I would like to see them included for my purposes, it is a good way to keep the price down. Most Windows people dont like the one-button mouse anyway, so the more-privey among us will see it as a deal: not being forced to pay for something I dont want anyway.
As long as Apple doesnt try to hide the fact that the keyboard/mouse aren't included, this is gonna work great.
The only thing I would say is they REALLY should include a couple of PS/2 adapters....someone else made a very good case for that already...
Now I'm off to get my girlfriend to sell her Compaq and get a Mac mini!
As far as them not including a keyboard/mouse, I think it is a good idea. While I would like to see them included for my purposes, it is a good way to keep the price down. Most Windows people dont like the one-button mouse anyway, so the more-privey among us will see it as a deal: not being forced to pay for something I dont want anyway.
As long as Apple doesnt try to hide the fact that the keyboard/mouse aren't included, this is gonna work great.
The only thing I would say is they REALLY should include a couple of PS/2 adapters....someone else made a very good case for that already...
Now I'm off to get my girlfriend to sell her Compaq and get a Mac mini!
One other thing...now, more than ever, is the time for the "Mac evangelizing" that we are all so famous for....
In addition to my normal pitches, I am going to be going to labs around my college campus and putting up the Mac mini's homepage for the next user to see.
In addition to my normal pitches, I am going to be going to labs around my college campus and putting up the Mac mini's homepage for the next user to see.
rueyeet said:
Part of the difference between the Macmini and the Cube was the price. If I remember correctly, the CUbe was outrageously expensive. I'm thinking $3000+ but I may be thinking of something else. Its one thing to pay sub $500 prices on a expansion limited computer another to spend
I think that Dvorak is so hip to this because he has been harping for Apple to create a cheap mac (oh and switch to the X86 chipset) for the past... forever. I think that he secretly surfs Mac orentied sites the way some people surf porn sites. Lots of heavy breathing, tissue in hand, and furtive glances towards the door to make sure nobocy walks in on him.
maya said:I believe Bill Palmer is missing the point of the Mac mini.
I don't think he's missing the point at all.
He's just concerned potential switchers will miss the point, and then spread their 'missed point' to all the friends, leading the mini to go the way of the cube.
This product will have to be really well advertised to do well.
And is damn expensive if you max out the ram, add bluetooth and a wireless card. Around £900
mouchoir said:
Every product is expensive if you max out the RAM. And for day-to-day personal-user activities it isn't necessary. I use the iLife and MS Office suites on my iBook with the factory 256mb RAM, and the performance is just fine.
Ohhh well... let's come back to this thread in a year... we'll see.
My guess: Apple will have to lower the price on this baby to U$399 for the high end model... then it makes sense, so we can add a nice display... who wants to attach this beauty to an ugly beige U$100 CRT?
Me? I am ok with my G5 and my Thinkpad for now. And my wife can browse the internet and use Office with a U$499 (monitor, keyboard, mouse included, 512mb, wireless) Dell...
My guess: Apple will have to lower the price on this baby to U$399 for the high end model... then it makes sense, so we can add a nice display... who wants to attach this beauty to an ugly beige U$100 CRT?
Me? I am ok with my G5 and my Thinkpad for now. And my wife can browse the internet and use Office with a U$499 (monitor, keyboard, mouse included, 512mb, wireless) Dell...
How about Apple selling a Mac mini at $399. No RAM included, and no warranty. Or would that be against federal law, to not include warranty support? So at $399, I could crack open the case myself, play around with upgrading at my own risk, and Apple wouldn't be liable for support if I broke it. Sounds good to me.
I ordered a Mac mini on Tuesday, about 2 hours after they were announced. Before I tell you why I did this, let me tell you what I already have here in my home office:
2 Sony VAIO desktop PCs (3.4 GHz, 3.2 GHz)
2 Sony LCD monitors (23", 15") multimonitored to the desktop PCs
USB KVVM (dual monitor) switch box
USB Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse
Microsoft wireless 802.11b/g router
2 Sony VAIO notebook PCs (2.2 GHz, 850 MHz)
and a whole RAFT of other PC gear behind the scenes
My desktop is VERY clean, with no visible wires ANYWHERE.
I've been interested in messing around with a Mac for a while, but there are some problems with that: First, iMacs are right out, because I don't want ANOTHER monitor... for the same reason, eMacs are right out. Second, I don't want to spend a ton of money to just be able to play with a Mac, so I'm not gonna buy a G5 Mac (as nice as they are... Apple's designs are top-notch).
The Mac mini is PERFECT for a PC power user like myself who wants to dip his toes into the Mac swimming pool... I'll be able to hook it into my existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse (all linked through a switch box), and its presence on my desk will be minimal (practically invisible). I'll always be a PC/Windows person, but this at least lets me see what working with a Mac would be like.
The Apple mantra of "Switch" needs to be expanded to "Switch or at least dabble". Mac mini allows us PC users to dabble, for a quite reasonable price.
2 Sony VAIO desktop PCs (3.4 GHz, 3.2 GHz)
2 Sony LCD monitors (23", 15") multimonitored to the desktop PCs
USB KVVM (dual monitor) switch box
USB Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse
Microsoft wireless 802.11b/g router
2 Sony VAIO notebook PCs (2.2 GHz, 850 MHz)
and a whole RAFT of other PC gear behind the scenes
My desktop is VERY clean, with no visible wires ANYWHERE.
I've been interested in messing around with a Mac for a while, but there are some problems with that: First, iMacs are right out, because I don't want ANOTHER monitor... for the same reason, eMacs are right out. Second, I don't want to spend a ton of money to just be able to play with a Mac, so I'm not gonna buy a G5 Mac (as nice as they are... Apple's designs are top-notch).
The Mac mini is PERFECT for a PC power user like myself who wants to dip his toes into the Mac swimming pool... I'll be able to hook it into my existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse (all linked through a switch box), and its presence on my desk will be minimal (practically invisible). I'll always be a PC/Windows person, but this at least lets me see what working with a Mac would be like.
The Apple mantra of "Switch" needs to be expanded to "Switch or at least dabble". Mac mini allows us PC users to dabble, for a quite reasonable price.