clayjohanson said:
Paint a crosshairs on yourself, you are the bullseye for the mac mini. Us mac people are in the target zone, but you're dead center of what they were aiming at.
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Dvorak on the iMac Mini
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Paint a crosshairs on yourself, you are the bullseye for the mac mini. Us mac people are in the target zone, but you're dead center of what they were aiming at.
mactastic said:
To be sure. I'm NEVER* going to "Switch", but at least this way Apple picks up a user (one of many, I'm sure). It'll be interesting to play with the Mac mini, and the relative lack of HD space (just ONE of my PCs has 750 GB of disk space, and the others all have large HDs) and total inability to expand the machine too much will keep it in "hobby" status. Like I said, it'll be fun.
Now, if only Apple would add WMA support to the iPod, I *might* consider getting one.
* I know, I know. Never say never. But I like my PCs way too much to ever switch to the Mac platform.
In this case Dvorak is on the mark. Heat issues may be a problem which is why I am personally waiting for the rev 2 (I figure September time frame).
I have a rev 1 B&W and upgrading the processor is now off the list of potential upgrades. With the Mac Mini, I get a desktop computer more or less equivalent to the 1.2 GHz Ibook I just purchased and for home use that's plenty. I already have a 17" studio monitor, USB keyboard and mouse. It's cheap people like me that are waiting as long as possible to buy a new Apple desktop that are part of the target audience.
I have a rev 1 B&W and upgrading the processor is now off the list of potential upgrades. With the Mac Mini, I get a desktop computer more or less equivalent to the 1.2 GHz Ibook I just purchased and for home use that's plenty. I already have a 17" studio monitor, USB keyboard and mouse. It's cheap people like me that are waiting as long as possible to buy a new Apple desktop that are part of the target audience.
Bah.
This computer was MADE for PC users. Not us. Not him. But my mother-in-law. Lots of my friends. My neighbor. All casual users who are tired as hell of PC woes. It may start with the Mini, then, like was my experience, the machines became more powerful, more often.
If Apple can sell a million or two this next year, it will be considered a hit.
"Doesn't SEEM to?" No, he's about to suffer an infarction, and for nothing. Does he think Apple didn't get data on PC sales in the last few years? Does he think Apple has no idea what the data says on the computer experience of these users? Does he think Apple has no idea that the PRICE tag draws shoppers, like the $699.00 they happily spent for a Celeron-powered craptastic Gateway? Apple is smarter than he thinks.mouchoir said:
This computer was MADE for PC users. Not us. Not him. But my mother-in-law. Lots of my friends. My neighbor. All casual users who are tired as hell of PC woes. It may start with the Mini, then, like was my experience, the machines became more powerful, more often.
If Apple can sell a million or two this next year, it will be considered a hit.
Well, iTunes supports unprotected WMA. It converts it to MP3 or AAC, but it will read it. As far as protected WMA (or unconverted), I have to ask why? I mean, it may be a little better than MP3, but not much, and AAC is so much better.clayjohanson said:
And blame M$ for no Mac support for protected WMAs.
Well, no one says you have to completely switch. A lot of us still have PCs for various other things. But don't be surprised if the next computer you buy is a Mac. They can be addicting.
Conversion is, IMHO, totally unnecessary. This is the same reason I haven't bought one of Sony's Network Walkmans (Walkmen?)... they insist on converting music into ATRAC format. I want an HD-based player that will just let me drop my 21 GB of music files onto it WITHOUT any lengthy conversion process. And it really doesn't matter to me whether lack of WMA support on the iPod is Microsoft's fault, Apple's fault, or (more likely) some combination thereof. Plenty of other players (Rio Riot, for example) support WMA natively, so it's not that Microsoft won't license the format to anyone else.solvs said:Well, iTunes supports unprotected WMA. It converts it to MP3 or AAC, but it will read it. As far as protected WMA (or unconverted), I have to ask why? I mean, it may be a little better than MP3, but not much, and AAC is so much better.
And blame M$ for no Mac support for protected WMAs.
Well, no one says you have to completely switch. A lot of us still have PCs for various other things. But don't be surprised if the next computer you buy is a Mac. They can be addicting.
I sincerely doubt that I'll buy another Mac after the Mac mini. I am what you would call a hardcore PC user... been using them since I got my first IBM PC XT in 1986. I've owned PCs by IBM, Tandy, Northgate, Dell, and Sony. I'm not Switching, but I will Visit.
solvs said:
You're not doing any favours by spreading pure BS.
Everyone knows that Apple is perfectly free to license WMA, and Microsoft would love to have it on the iPod.
It is Apple's choice not to license WMA. They could if they wanted to, they have decided not to.
I agree with the choice, but trying to blame it on Microsoft just sounds bitter.
clayjohanson said:I sincerely doubt that I'll buy another Mac after the Mac mini. I am what you would call a hardcore PC user... been using them since I got my first IBM PC XT in 1986. I've owned PCs by IBM, Tandy, Northgate, Dell, and Sony. I'm not Switching, but I will Visit.
You know what they say... They come to visit and end up staying longer than that.
Oh wait, that's in-laws.
In any case, you might just like it a lot. Once you get really intimate with the OS, you can do anything you want to with it.
Pattersons articled made my neck hurt. I was physically shaking my head... maybe it's different in the UK... OK, SOME people are like this* but on the whole I don't think many people are gonna be too annoyed by the fact they have to walk, oh a coupla steps to another store to pick up a monitor. Big deal. Apple don't seem to stock a massive amount of Video-cameras. If I was a SERIOUS video producer I sure wouldn't buy them from Apple. (i do film production)
One thing he did say that I don't think many people have considered - connecting a mac to a windows-designed usb keyboard MAY be a little confusing, though I'm sure they've already thought of it and written instructions. My brothers MS bluetooth keyboard worked great with my Powerbook but it took me a coupla seconds to work out what button did what (and I'm not the target market (i.e. dumb) for this product)
Hob
*I was in the Apple Store regent street and a woman was getting particularly aerated because apple don't sell any straight 4-port hub/routers. Even when the guy gave her directions to about 2 dozen decent stores (in nearby techcentric Tottenham Court Road) that would help her. She just was do pissed she couldn't buy EVERYTHING in one store. Some people are too spoilt for choice.
One thing he did say that I don't think many people have considered - connecting a mac to a windows-designed usb keyboard MAY be a little confusing, though I'm sure they've already thought of it and written instructions. My brothers MS bluetooth keyboard worked great with my Powerbook but it took me a coupla seconds to work out what button did what (and I'm not the target market (i.e. dumb) for this product)
Hob
*I was in the Apple Store regent street and a woman was getting particularly aerated because apple don't sell any straight 4-port hub/routers. Even when the guy gave her directions to about 2 dozen decent stores (in nearby techcentric Tottenham Court Road) that would help her. She just was do pissed she couldn't buy EVERYTHING in one store. Some people are too spoilt for choice.
Apple doesn't have to license it for Microsoft to put out a player that runs on OS X and supports protected WMA files.stcanard said:
Exactly. iPod, maybe. But why would they? Plus, it actually is Microsoft's fault there is no decoding for protected WMA on Macs. I suppose Apple could license Fairplay, but that's a whole other issue. At least it works on PCs, but I guess it would kinda have to.Counterfit said:Apple doesn't have to license it for Microsoft to put out a player that runs on OS X and supports protected WMA files.
And why would you have WMAs? I've had several PCs and I (nor anybody I know, even hardcore Wintel users) have any WMAs. I guess it's all about choice, and if you want them for whatever reason, you are more than welcome to buy a competitor. Maybe if someday the iPod's marketshare drops, they can add support for WMAs if they want, but for now most of us will stick with MP3s (and the occasional AAC).
I mean, it's fine if you have WMAs, I just don't understand why anyone would.
You know what makes this Bill Palmer an idiot?
The Mac Mini comes is a tiny box
How are customers going to think it comes with a keyboard and/mouse? The box can barely fit a computer.
Oh this makes his story retarded too: the salesman in his story won't say "no we don't have cheaper than the $999 20inch", he'll say "yeah the monitor isle is that way".
This guy's far-fetched story has two fundamental flaws that make it essential impossible from unfolding in real-life. He can take his stupid melodrama where the sun don't shine.
The Mac Mini comes is a tiny box
How are customers going to think it comes with a keyboard and/mouse? The box can barely fit a computer.
Oh this makes his story retarded too: the salesman in his story won't say "no we don't have cheaper than the $999 20inch", he'll say "yeah the monitor isle is that way".
This guy's far-fetched story has two fundamental flaws that make it essential impossible from unfolding in real-life. He can take his stupid melodrama where the sun don't shine.
mouchoir said:
nah. not convinced. the "market" is pretty clear. the switcher in the shop doesn't have to buy an apple display, one can be picked up anywhere for far less. offering a G4 iMac for a lot less than a G4 iMac 6 months ago.
and people should be smart enough to know its USB mice and keyboards. which are cheap enough to buy if you need to.
and look how "pick upable" the thing is - for not much more than the price of an iPod.
£339 for panther, iLife 05 and a computer? its a steal.
the cube was altogether different - it looked great, but that was about it.
the mini has a lot going for it, there seems to be a real buzz about it and can see it doing really well.
Iain
duklaprague said:
I'm hoping the salespeople will be smart enough to push a $120 KVM on them. Then you use your existing monitor/keyboard/mouse, don't lose desk space, and keep the safety blanket.
Since I'm seeing a 2 port KVM figured prominently on Apple's site, this seems to be the direction.
Good to hear!clayjohanson said:I'm not Switching, but I will Visit.
I believe the the Mac mini is for folks like yourself who want to experiment, and possibly delve deeper into the Mac side as time goes one depending on your experience.
Sushi
number9 said:
I agree that he seems to be exaggerating somewhat. However, there is one argument that I agree with. That's the one about there only being 2 usb ports. That really wasn't a very clever move by Apple. Where do you plug in your printer without a usb hub? If you were considering buying a macmini and ended up all the extra you'd have to buy:
LCD monitor (17" seems fairly standard now) @ a regular store. $250
keyboard and mouse: free if you keep your own. otherwise say $50
usb hub $20
Suddenly your bargain $500 mac sets you back $820. Sure its a bargain compared to an imac. But dell is offering pc's at $600 after shipping and you don't have to shop around for 3rd party products. That's 25% savings. I think i know what an uninformed pc user would do!
Although I have my gripes with the mini, this Bill Palmer guy loses all credibility when he puts the Mini and the Cube in the same sentence. Other than the small form factor (the Mini is actually about a third the size of the Cube), there is ABSOLUTELY no comparison. Apple was a different company back when it made the Cube. They could care less about the low end. But now, with the success of the ipod and ipod mini, Apple has learned a lesson or two. It's possible to live in the low end and make money and have the stock go through the roof and still put out a good product.duklaprague said:
It's clear that the Mini is a repackaged iBook: that explains the 4200 RPM drive, only two USB ports, etc. Apple's game plan was pretty simple: take their most popular product (the iBook), strip away everything nonessential (display, keyboard, trackpad, and battery), fold the remaining body on itself to create a smaller footprint, and voila, you have the Mac mini. Whatever shortcomings you see in the Mini are the shortcomings of the iBook.
Why did they do this? Well, they knew that most consumer-level users are happy with the feature set and performance of the iBook so it was a logical starting point. AND if they recycle an existing product, they're saving a ton of money on R&D and manufacturing. Clearly, Apple was aiming for the lowest price point they knew how. This repackaged iBook minus the peripherals was the only way for Apple to meet the sub-$500 price point.
One last thing: don't underestimate the impact of the tiny form factor. Apple could've easily taken the eMac base and made a new pizza box, but that would've had ZERO sex appeal. For better or worse, Apple sells a lot of computers based on the sex appeal. For brute performance, people can always go to PCs. They needed a design that turned heads and created a media buzz, and that was with the ultra-small form factor of the Mini.