Not likely. The GMA950 is now old news for Intel. The 965 (aka X3100) is were the future lies for integrated graphics.
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Not likely. The GMA950 is now old news for Intel. The 965 (aka X3100) is were the future lies for integrated graphics.
Yeah, I updated my comment to reflect that reality once I thought about it. It shocks me that Apple is using not only an intel graphics chip, but an outdated Intel graphics chip at that.
I guess graphics decisions by Apple shouldn't surprise me any more!
Yeah, and the excuses are usually one of a few things: (1) Computers aren't for gaming, get a console, (2) Macs aren't for gaming, get a PC, (3) it's not really that bad, just castrate most of your graphics settings, or (4) Apple Doesn't Target You And That's Just How It Is.
Every one of those is crap. The first flies in the face of history, the second is the exact opposite of the stance that a true Mac advocate should take, the third is disposed of with performance numbers, and the fourth... the fourth is the real crown jewel. It's the one where the zealotry most amply reveals itself, with people twisting themselves into all sorts of bizarre arguments and senseless car analogies in an effort to justify Apple's indifference/hostility towards decent video for its sub-$2000 systems.
I must say, though, I'm glad to see an increasing number of people hollering about this. That's exactly what they should be doing. I get worried when they don't.
No and no. Buying Windows = teh suck, losing a big chunk of hard drive space to Windows = teh suck, rebooting = teh suck, consoles = teh suck. Native gaming ftw!
--Eric
My biggest gripe for the gfx hardware issue is simply because I would use bootcamp to run these games, and the gfx hardware is simply below par.
OK people are whining they would need to lose some HD space and have to splash out for a copy of windows, but the reason I would use boot camp is purely and simply because you would not have to wait for patches (I am guessing the patches will be delayed).
You would have thought by now that apple would be giving top end gfx cards in the mac pros, and refreshing the product line to reflect changing technology a little more frequently. I would love a mac pro with a 768mb 8800gtx, but I shudder at the thought of the price, especially after apple over inflate the price of an already expensive component, in an already expensive machine.
The higher level mac book pros actually have a decent enough chip in them, but I wouldn't want to do hours on end of gaming on a laptop, you'd certainly need a 7200rpm HD and a hack to run the fans at full speed all of the time.
It would be nice to see the mac books and minis at least move away from integrated gfx and sharing system ram, but then you have to remember this would more than likely up the price of these systems.
OK people are whining they would need to lose some HD space and have to splash out for a copy of windows, but the reason I would use boot camp is purely and simply because you would not have to wait for patches (I am guessing the patches will be delayed).
You would have thought by now that apple would be giving top end gfx cards in the mac pros, and refreshing the product line to reflect changing technology a little more frequently. I would love a mac pro with a 768mb 8800gtx, but I shudder at the thought of the price, especially after apple over inflate the price of an already expensive component, in an already expensive machine.
The higher level mac book pros actually have a decent enough chip in them, but I wouldn't want to do hours on end of gaming on a laptop, you'd certainly need a 7200rpm HD and a hack to run the fans at full speed all of the time.
It would be nice to see the mac books and minis at least move away from integrated gfx and sharing system ram, but then you have to remember this would more than likely up the price of these systems.
Something not mentioned here about Apple's push for integrated graphics:
The mini was initially sold as a unit pushing the fact that it had a dedicated 32MB video card for graphics...
The part they leave out is that the graphics card had a heat sink removed, and was underclocked to keep it cool. Meaning for a fair number of people, there was difficulty using the DVI-D connector to a lot of monitors, as the signal coming out of the unit wasn't necessarily up to spec.
When the intel switch came, integrated graphics meant they could correct the DVI output, and not require any additional heatsink.
And I think that is the tradeoff even in the iMac... Underclock the GPU to limit the heat coming off the unit. I thought I read somewhere that the new iMac runs considerably hotter under Windows, as the GPU is clocked normally.
The mini was initially sold as a unit pushing the fact that it had a dedicated 32MB video card for graphics...
The part they leave out is that the graphics card had a heat sink removed, and was underclocked to keep it cool. Meaning for a fair number of people, there was difficulty using the DVI-D connector to a lot of monitors, as the signal coming out of the unit wasn't necessarily up to spec.
When the intel switch came, integrated graphics meant they could correct the DVI output, and not require any additional heatsink.
And I think that is the tradeoff even in the iMac... Underclock the GPU to limit the heat coming off the unit. I thought I read somewhere that the new iMac runs considerably hotter under Windows, as the GPU is clocked normally.
Woot! The games are here! Now we just need to wait for the hardware to play them... 
Apple just need a sturn slap, and realise that just being able to "run" a game isnt enough on systems you are paying £1000's/$1000's for. Especially the "higher end" of the mid-range, which are as high as you can go before the "pro" systems.
There is nothing stoping Apple from using one of the top-end Mobile Chipsets from Nvidia in the 24" mac. Take away the "Extreme" id rather lose some Mhz on the CPU and gain something thats going to make a much bigger difference where it counts, not in photoshop benchmarks, but in common tasks and mulimedia.
Once Apple bring out an iMac with a powerful graphics card, ill get one of the 24" versions. Until then i will have to wait.
Apple just need a sturn slap, and realise that just being able to "run" a game isnt enough on systems you are paying £1000's/$1000's for. Especially the "higher end" of the mid-range, which are as high as you can go before the "pro" systems.
There is nothing stoping Apple from using one of the top-end Mobile Chipsets from Nvidia in the 24" mac. Take away the "Extreme" id rather lose some Mhz on the CPU and gain something thats going to make a much bigger difference where it counts, not in photoshop benchmarks, but in common tasks and mulimedia.
Once Apple bring out an iMac with a powerful graphics card, ill get one of the 24" versions. Until then i will have to wait.
Except there are no high end mobile cards from the current generation available yet. I would hope that a BTO for the 8800M or the Mobility 2900 will be available when the cards appear.
Well, he might change his mind. As others have said, the video hardware was (proportionally) better before the Intel switch. It's possible that whatever spider that's been whispering in his ear since 2005 will die off.
Great comment, I only wish Apple would listen to people in this thread. Enhancing graphics hardware would only benifit OSX's great interface and ilife's features.
Jobs has a history of resisting a change and then pouncing on it. The fact that he showcased the "games" coming to OSX is a good sign that things might be changing. I just wish the graphics card in the iMac was upgradeable.
I'm glad that at least epic games is going to release Gears of War for Mac and PC. They have been good about giving mac versions of their engines some attention. Hopefully that'll be released soon as well as EA's line.
I finally purchased Battlefield 2142 for Mac & iWork '08 yesterday (I figure a little play is okay if I counteract it with a little work ).
). 
I think you've summed it up perfectly, though I'll admit that your 2nd point (or rather, the classic zealot's excuse) is gathering greater substance in my thinking as I edge closer to buying a new desktop in the coming weeks. I'd really like to get another Mac (really!) - I already have a Mac laptop - but glossy iMacs with their budget-range, non-upgradable graphics aren't an option; whilst the Mac Pro is overkill.
I believe I'm representative of a growing number of people. I'm not a dedicated gamer & my new desktop won't be used only for gaming. I already own a PS2, which I now hardly touch because I find most console games aren't really my thing. I just want something that also gives me access to untrammelled, high calibre, computer-specific gaming, for eg. Medieval 2: TW, Empire: TW (coming early 2008), et al, for the odd few hours at weekends, etc. If Apple gave me a new headless Mac with discrete graphics, at iMac prices, I'm certainly buying. I'd happily use Boot Camp only for non Mac-native games.
To those that say "Apple won't do this because it'll cannibalize iMac sales", I disagree. We have no proof of this & it's debatable how many iMac sales would be lost to such a new Mac & how many switchers would be gained. As things stand, Apple certainly won't have lost an iMac sale in my case. Though I'll continue buying Mac laptops in future, currently I feel I have little option but buy a PC desktop.
I'll wait a while longer, more in hope than expectation, for Apple may surprise me, but I'm also becoming increasingly fed up with Apple's limited product range compared to what PC hardware offers.
I still think "point 4" is the key. Apple simply don't care about gamers... it's not that they're doing this to spite gamers (why would they?) they just.... don't care! It's not important to them, it's not part of their current strategy.
I hope as much as anyone else that they'll make a gaming capable machine, but I just don't see it happening no matter how much the small minority that we are, shout about it.
As for cannibalising iMac sales, I don't think cannibalising sales of any product is a problem, after all it's still their product so they're still making money so long as they keep the profit margin the same. It only really mattered for the iPhone, where they had contracts with AT&T etc (and they still released the Touch regardless)
I hope as much as anyone else that they'll make a gaming capable machine, but I just don't see it happening no matter how much the small minority that we are, shout about it.
As for cannibalising iMac sales, I don't think cannibalising sales of any product is a problem, after all it's still their product so they're still making money so long as they keep the profit margin the same. It only really mattered for the iPhone, where they had contracts with AT&T etc (and they still released the Touch regardless)
Though I don't think a new headless Mac with discrete graphics would cannibalize iMac sales, I can see why the mere perception of it doing so would raise some strong objections.
As SJ said, Apple won't ship junk, as in cheap beige towers, etc., so any new line in Mac hardware would be at a considerable cost to Apple. If sales of any new headless Mac resulted in too many lost sales of the iMac range, Apple would see it as eroding their profit margins rather than adding to them, etc. - I can't see too many other reasons why Apple won't give us such a Mac, but I disagree with their reasoning.
The main problem for me is space. I already have a PC for games, and well, it has a monitor. No room for an iMac. Mac Pro would be ridiculously overpowered, and Mac Mini ridiculously underpowered... (it's junk stock from older models of their lowest powered Mac otherwise, the iBook)
As you "already have a PC for games" & space is a problem, I'm thinking perhaps a Mini wouldn't be a bad move for you. AFAIC, it's only underpowered for serious gaming & professional-user software, but for most applications it's really more than enough.
Maybe... main problem is I'm impatient when it comes to computers (the PC is a high end C2D). I currently have a G4 Powerbook and it's so slow it drives me up the wall!