Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of the Apple II, and More

[SirCheese]

if I didnt know better, I'd think you were trolling. but ok assuming you aren't -- Jobs transformed several product categories and entire industries. much like Henry Ford or Walt Disney, whom we also still discuss to this day.

Ugh, Jobs was no Henry Ford or Walt Disney....

 

[Bobby Corwen]

And yet, Jobs was nothing special either. And a living legend? Maybe in his own mind.

U drinking the koolaid man. You act like jobs didn't have major flops.

Woz giving their first employee stock was the right thing to do, an act of appreciation. Jobs offering nothing was a d**k move.

SirCheesy with the bendgate join date, and Truefan31. You guys just lost all credibility lol.

I guess since nobody will remember you after you die, you don't want anyone to remember anyone.

At most say you just don't get the appeal. But don't insult us on here with your rudeness.

Still too soon.

I and millions of others will remember Steve as one of the most glorious and revolutionary human beings of our time.

 

[SirCheese]

SirCheesy with the bendgate join date, and Truefan31. You guys just lost all credibility lol.

I guess since nobody will remember you after you die, you don't want anyone to remember anyone.

At most say you just don't get the appeal. But don't insult us on here with your rudeness.

Still too soon.

I and millions of others will remember Steve as one of the most glorious and revolutionary human beings of our time.

Do you think I care if I lost credibility with some nobody on the internet? No...

Glorious and revolutionary? Wow.... get real.

 

[Truefan31]

SirCheesy with the bendgate join date, and Truefan31. You guys just lost all credibility lol.

I guess since nobody will remember you after you die, you don't want anyone to remember anyone.

At most say you just don't get the appeal. But don't insult us on here with your rudeness.

Still too soon.

I and millions of others will remember Steve as one of the most glorious and revolutionary human beings of our time.

It seems u have a mancrush with jobs.

 

[laurim]

It seems u have a mancrush with jobs.

And you have a vendetta. What's the difference?

Guess by your logic, if I ever sell my house I should give the guy who tiled my bathroom a cut. Even though I picked out and purchased all the materials and designed how everything was supposed to look, he did the labor and did a great job he was so pivotal in the value of my home and it was a major selling point. So, he should get a cut of the profits when I sell it, even though he was already paid handsomely for the work he did. Doesn't that sum it up?

 

[Truefan31]

And you have a vendetta. What's the difference?



Guess by your logic, if I ever sell my house I should give the guy who tiled my bathroom a cut. Even though I picked out and purchased all the materials and designed how everything was supposed to look, he did the labor and did a great job he was so pivotal in the value of my home and it was a major selling point. So, he should get a cut of the profits when I sell it, even though he was already paid handsomely for the work he did. Doesn't that sum it up?

lol a vendetta?

I'm not using words like glorious and revolutionary to describe a person. My logic is that if your childhood friend helped introduce you to the guy who you'd partner with to start a successful company and u hired that friend as your first employee, you should appreciate that person. Woz appeciated him obviously by giving him some of his own stock. He wouldn't have to do that if jobs did it. I said its a d**k move by jobs, and based on previous history of how jobs treated his employees I still think it's a d**k move.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

lol a vendetta?

I'm not using words like glorious and revolutionary to describe a person. My logic is that if your childhood friend helped introduce you to the guy who you'd partner with to start a successful company and u hired that friend as your first employee, you should appreciate that person. Woz appeciated him obviously by giving him some of his own stock. He wouldn't have to do that if jobs did it. I said its a d**k move by jobs, and based on previous history of how jobs treated his employees I still think it's a d**k move.

So you've never looked up to anyone or liked anyone?

Thats you're perogative.

But don't act like Im the weird one because I admire people.

Usually when I hear people be anti-celebrity or don't have any heroes it is because they are insecure with themselves.

Just saying. V for Vendetta is about right. A vendetta against people who are more successful than you.

Downplaying their success and achievements instead of learning from them and wishing to emulate them. Its kind of self centered and emotionally underdeveloped in my opinion.

 

[laurim]

lol a vendetta?

I'm not using words like glorious and revolutionary to describe a person. My logic is that if your childhood friend helped introduce you to the guy who you'd partner with to start a successful company and u hired that friend as your first employee, you should appreciate that person. Woz appeciated him obviously by giving him some of his own stock. He wouldn't have to do that if jobs did it. I said its a d**k move by jobs, and based on previous history of how jobs treated his employees I still think it's a d**k move.

Do you realize there's a difference between being responsible for the finances of a company and distributing stock appropriately so it sets a standard everyone can live with (including the other people who didn't get stock but think they did as much as this guy, other than being in the right place at the right time) and one guy giving away his own money because he's a nice guy? Maybe if you are ever responsible for a company and all the people who work in it, you'll finally get it. Being in charge means making hard decisions and maybe people not liking you all the time.

 

[Truefan31]

Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of...

So you've never looked up to anyone or liked anyone?

Thats you're perogative.

But don't act like Im the weird one because I admire people.

Usually when I hear people be anti-celebrity or don't have any heroes it is because they are insecure with themselves.

Just saying. V for Vendetta is about right. A vendetta against people who are more successful than you.

Downplaying their success and achievements instead of learning from them and wishing to emulate them. Its kind of self centered and emotionally underdeveloped in my opinion.

What are u talking about? Jobs did good things. I have Apple products. But I'm not calling him glorious nor do I think he's evil.

I didn't downplay anything. I'm saying he should take care of the people who helped him start off.
lol please don't reference a movie in here.

Do you realize there's a difference between being responsible for the finances of a company and distributing stock appropriately so it sets a standard everyone can live with (including the other people who didn't get stock but think they did as much as this guy, other than being in the right place at the right time) and one guy giving away his own money because he's a nice guy? Maybe if you are ever responsible for a company and all the people who work in it, you'll finally get it. Being in charge means making hard decisions and maybe people not liking you all the time.

Yes I understand finances. I understand taking care of your integral employee who happens to be your friend and the reason why you were able to build computers from the beginning. lol it's not a financial disaster to offer stock or even a path of growth to your friend who's responsible for you being able to realize your dream. Again, bill gates was generous in his stock options, I don't think he's in a financial ruin is he?

It's well documented how jobs treated some employees wrongly. This is another example.

My whole family has been business owners. Aunts, uncles, my mom, brother, and two cousins. I understand business.

 

[japanime]

How about back in the '70s when this was?

I consider the 1970s to be part of "modern Japan." Aside from the updated creature comforts, the interior design of of postwar Japanese homes (particularly those in crowded cities) has changed very little.

 

[kironin]

Well aren't we all just perfect when it's not our company, huh? If he made an exception and gave stock to him, a short-term, hourly employee who by and large just did basic tasks (one thing he took over was a job Job's sister was doing and was being paid more for so he was cheaper), how many other people would be unhappy then?

You have it wrong. You confusing Bill with Daniel Kottke. Kottke was the one that took over the work Job's sister was doing for cheaper. Not Hernandez.

Hernandez brought this to table,

"When it came to computers and electronics, few people knew the workings of Wozniak's mind better than Fernandez. ... In order to make the Apple II a buildable product, Apple needed a full technical readout of all the component parts, so that's what Holt assigned to Fernandez. "When Woz designed something, most of the design was in his head," said Fernandez. "The only documentation he needed was a few pages of notes and sketches to remind him of the overall architecture and any tricky parts. What the company needed was a complete schematic showing all the components and exactly how they were wired together." ... Fernandez said, "I drew the first complete schematic of the Apple II, working from a few xeroxed pages of Woz's notes written on graph paper. Having worked with Woz before... this was a straightforward [but] painstaking task. In my opinion, it was a beautiful schematic: logical, clear, easy to determine the relationships between components, and easy to follow the data and logic flows." It worked. The machine got built. History was made."


That sounds like a key player to me. With the fact that he brought them together so Apple could even have a chance to exist, it is definitely worthy of stock options. Woz rightfully recognized that, and Jobs didn't. A poor showing on Jobs part regardless of whatever subsequent life growth he went through to be a hero of Apple fanboys far and wide.

 

[Keirasplace]

You have it wrong. You confusing Bill with Daniel Kottke. Kottke was the one that took over the work Job's sister was doing for cheaper. Not Hernandez.

Hernandez brought this to table,

"When it came to computers and electronics, few people knew the workings of Wozniak's mind better than Fernandez. ... In order to make the Apple II a buildable product, Apple needed a full technical readout of all the component parts, so that's what Holt assigned to Fernandez. "When Woz designed something, most of the design was in his head," said Fernandez. "The only documentation he needed was a few pages of notes and sketches to remind him of the overall architecture and any tricky parts. What the company needed was a complete schematic showing all the components and exactly how they were wired together." ... Fernandez said, "I drew the first complete schematic of the Apple II, working from a few xeroxed pages of Woz's notes written on graph paper. Having worked with Woz before... this was a straightforward [but] painstaking task. In my opinion, it was a beautiful schematic: logical, clear, easy to determine the relationships between components, and easy to follow the data and logic flows." It worked. The machine got built. History was made."


That sounds like a key player to me. With the fact that he brought them together so Apple could even have a chance to exist, it is definitely worthy of stock options. Woz rightfully recognized that, and Jobs didn't. A poor showing on Jobs part regardless of whatever subsequent life growth he went through to be a hero of Apple fanboys far and wide.

Jobs was a true bastard king, especially in his early years. He mellowed considerably later on and was still a bitch to work with! So, you imagine how bad it could be back then.

He had vision and knew how to inspire, that's without dispute. Saying he was difficult doesn't remove anything from his legacy.

Some, seem to think you can't be both a visionary and a jerk.

A few early Apple employees (pre 1979) I met later on when I worked in the valley told me as such in the mid 1990s, before he even came back to Apple.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

You have it wrong. You confusing Bill with Daniel Kottke. Kottke was the one that took over the work Job's sister was doing for cheaper. Not Hernandez.

Hernandez brought this to table,

"When it came to computers and electronics, few people knew the workings of Wozniak's mind better than Fernandez. ... In order to make the Apple II a buildable product, Apple needed a full technical readout of all the component parts, so that's what Holt assigned to Fernandez. "When Woz designed something, most of the design was in his head," said Fernandez. "The only documentation he needed was a few pages of notes and sketches to remind him of the overall architecture and any tricky parts. What the company needed was a complete schematic showing all the components and exactly how they were wired together." ... Fernandez said, "I drew the first complete schematic of the Apple II, working from a few xeroxed pages of Woz's notes written on graph paper. Having worked with Woz before... this was a straightforward [but] painstaking task. In my opinion, it was a beautiful schematic: logical, clear, easy to determine the relationships between components, and easy to follow the data and logic flows." It worked. The machine got built. History was made."


That sounds like a key player to me. With the fact that he brought them together so Apple could even have a chance to exist, it is definitely worthy of stock options. Woz rightfully recognized that, and Jobs didn't. A poor showing on Jobs part regardless of whatever subsequent life growth he went through to be a hero of Apple fanboys far and wide.

If he was such a key player why did he leave?

 

[Poisonivy326]

Do you realize there's a difference between being responsible for the finances of a company and distributing stock appropriately so it sets a standard everyone can live with (including the other people who didn't get stock but think they did as much as this guy, other than being in the right place at the right time) and one guy giving away his own money because he's a nice guy? Maybe if you are ever responsible for a company and all the people who work in it, you'll finally get it. Being in charge means making hard decisions and maybe people not liking you all the time.

I think there's a difference between being very tough and demanding (which all ceo's have to be) and outright being a jerk (which in this case Jobs was especially if Woz had to give away his stock options out of niceness). I don't doubt Tim Cook or Bill Gates are very tough and demanding. But neither seems to have crossed the line into outright cruelty or abusiveness. There's a difference.

 

[Truefan31]

Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of...

If he was such a key player why did he leave?

"According to Fernandez, he drew the first completed schematic of the working Apple II after reverse engineering Wozniak's design to standardize it for production. The schematic went on to be used to build the Apple II, making history.As the first Apple computers grew in popularity, the company began hiring more employees and started inching its way towards an IPO. Despite his position as one of the early employees, Fernandez, as a technician, was not able to advance in the company and wasn't offered stock options. "There was no growth path for me," he said, stating that he became bored and dissatisfied with the work.





With no prospects for advancement, Fernandez left Apple just 18 months after he started working for the company. Fernandez later returned as a member of the technical staff after spending some time in Japan, going on to work on the first Macintosh. Though he was never officially awarded stock, Wozniak gave out shares of his own stock to many early employees, including Fernandez, Chris Espinosa, and Daniel Kottke."

It's in the article.

And I still say it was a d**k move by jobs.

----------

I think there's a difference between being very tough and demanding (which all ceo's have to be) and outright being a jerk (which in this case Jobs was especially if Woz had to give away his stock options out of niceness). I don't doubt Tim Cook or Bill Gates are very tough and demanding. But neither seems to have crossed the line into outright cruelty or abusiveness. There's a difference.

Yup that's my point. The fact that woz had to give him his own personal stock is telling. Not offering your first employee and a childhood friend integral to the beginning of your company any growth or stock options is a d**k move by jobs.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I think there's a difference between being very tough and demanding (which all ceo's have to be) and outright being a jerk (which in this case Jobs was especially if Woz had to give away his stock options out of niceness). I don't doubt Tim Cook or Bill Gates are very tough and demanding. But neither seems to have crossed the line into outright cruelty or abusiveness. There's a difference.

If you understand the legacy, you would understand that thats what it took to get people to do things right.

Don't take for granted the social capacity for communication we have today, and the uniformity of people.

Back then there were a lot more weirdos and not fully developed people.

He had to be firm because the people were still mentally kind of raw/wild in comparison to today and we were still progressing/developing as a society and culture.

"According to Fernandez, he drew the first completed schematic of the working Apple II after reverse engineering Wozniak's design to standardize it for production. The schematic went on to be used to build the Apple II, making history.As the first Apple computers grew in popularity, the company began hiring more employees and started inching its way towards an IPO. Despite his position as one of the early employees, Fernandez, as a technician, was not able to advance in the company and wasn't offered stock options. "There was no growth path for me," he said, stating that he became bored and dissatisfied with the work.





With no prospects for advancement, Fernandez left Apple just 18 months after he started working for the company. Fernandez later returned as a member of the technical staff after spending some time in Japan, going on to work on the first Macintosh. Though he was never officially awarded stock, Wozniak gave out shares of his own stock to many early employees, including Fernandez, Chris Espinosa, and Daniel Kottke."

It's in the article.

And I still say it was a d**k move by jobs.

----------




Yup that's my point. The fact that woz had to give him his own personal stock is telling. Not offering your first employee and a childhood friend integral to the beginning of your company any growth or stock options is a d**k move by jobs.

I don't think it was a dick move.

You automatically just jump to the defense of the underdog.

Like someone else said, you weren't there, you don't know the details, or most importantly the guys' attitude.

Woz is simple minded like that and probably did that to "buy love" and self righteously enjoy himself in the spirit of giving. It doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of reason by Jobs. He didn't owe them that.

Its the type of altruism Ayn Rand spoke against.

 

[Poisonivy326]

If you understand the legacy, you would understand that thats what it took to get people to do things right.

Don't take for granted the social capacity for communication we have today, and the uniformity of people.

Back then there were a lot more weirdos and not fully developed people.

He had to be firm because the people were still mentally kind of raw/wild in comparison to today.

.

Wtf? "Not fully developed people?" So you're saying that in the Silicon Valley Jobs was the only person not afflcted with some kind of mental disability?

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Wtf? "Not fully developed people?" So you're saying that in the Silicon Valley Jobs was the only person not afflcted with some kind of mental disability?

No. You phrased it way off the wall compared to what I was trying to say.

 

[Truefan31]

Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of...

If you understand the legacy, you would understand that thats what it took to get people to do things right.

Don't take for granted the social capacity for communication we have today, and the uniformity of people.

Back then there were a lot more weirdos and not fully developed people.

He had to be firm because the people were still mentally kind of raw/wild in comparison to today and we were still progressing/developing as a society and culture.



I don't think it was a dick move.

You automatically just jump to the defense of the underdog.

Like someone else said, you weren't there, you don't know the details, or most importantly the guys' attitude.

Woz is simple minded like that and probably did that to "buy love" and self righteously enjoy himself in the spirit of giving. It doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of reason by Jobs. He didn't owe them that.

Its the type of altruism Ayn Rand spoke against.

I'm not jumping to anything. Woz is simpleminded like that? Buy love? You weren't there either and you're assuming things about woz.

They were friends before the company. Fernandez was friends with jobs and friends with woz. He introduced them to each other and obviously had an integral part of helping start the Apple brand. He was employee #1. He left because he wasn't offered growth or stock options. He's said it in the article. Woz offered him stock later to show he appreciated him, being one of the first employees. Jobs offered nothing, not back then when according to you times were different, or later on when jobs could've easily offered something right along with woz. I think it's a d**k move by an old friend and based on numerous accounts of past employees, it's probably not the only time he's been a d**k.

Lol culture was raw and we were developing? What are u talking about? So jobs shaped our society and culture back then huh? That's why you call him "glorious" smh

In my house we have 3 iPhones, an iPod touch, 2 iPads, 2 Apple tvs, a mba, and a iMac and yet I don't think jobs as some glorious man. Lol

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I'm not jumping to anything. Woz is simpleminded like that? Buy love? You weren't there either and you're assuming things about woz.

They were friends before the company. Fernandez was friends with jobs and friends with woz. He introduced them to each other and obviously had an integral part of helping start the Apple brand. He was employee #1. He left because he wasn't offered growth or stock options. He's said it in the article. Woz offered him stock later to show he appreciated him, being one of the first employees. Jobs offered nothing, not back then when according to you times were different, or later on when jobs could've easily offered something right along with woz. I think it's a d**k move by an old friend and based on numerous accounts of past employees, it's probably not the only time he's been a d**k.

Lol culture was raw and we were developing? What are u talking about? So jobs shaped our society and culture back then huh? That's why you call him "glorious" smh

In my house we have 3 iPhones, an iPod touch, 2 iPads, 2 Apple tvs, a mba, and a iMac and yet I don't think jobs as some glorious man. Lol

So you're saying people in the 70s weren't weird?

You're saying people in society are the same as they were 50 years ago?

Personalities in general were more awkward and experimental with culture and ways of being. People were still figuring things out, developing into the culture we have today.

The Internet makes it so that we are all mostly caught up to certain baseline of uniformity of expected social norms while back then it was like the Wild West of personalities and philosophies and hippies.

Look at Hernandez. He's just some nerdy pencil neck who was anti social and Jobs was like leader of the Nerds. It was probably a leader follower friendship dynamic. Jobs was already super alpha at the time. A king of the nerds.

Hernandez was a replaceable laborer. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. It was a task, not a legacy. Introducing friends doesn't mean they owe you.

I don't think Jobs was a d1ck at all about that.

I just think jolly ol Woz thought it was neat to celebrate that symbol of Apple origin.

 

[Oletros]

Like someone said, Woz sacrificing his shares was a passive aggressive thing towards Jobs.

It was self righteous intent.

Jobs was always the living legend in the spotlight and Woz was just the grunt who was passed up by the complexities of tech. Today there are thousands of engineers way beyond the intelligence capacity of Woz. He is nothing special, not worth celebrating or emulating.

...

Woz is just insecure and has that insipid low brow underdog emotional immaturity. The innocent everyman worker ants are better than the King right?

Just saying. V for Vendetta is about right. A vendetta against people who are more successful than you.

Downplaying their success and achievements instead of learning from them and wishing to emulate them. Its kind of self centered and emotionally underdeveloped in my opinion.

Yap, exactly this

 

[prowlmedia]

ENOUGH with Jobs!!! The man was such a tool. Why do we still talk about him years after his demise. STEVE IS DEAD. D.E.A.D. Gone forever!!!

Well I really hope you have the same sort of Admiration when you pop your clogs.

The thing is you probably will.... what have you done lately?

 

[Truefan31]

So you're saying people in the 70s weren't weird?



You're saying people in society are the same as they were 50 years ago?



Personalities in general were more awkward and experimental with culture and ways of being. People were still figuring things out, developing into the culture we have today.



The Internet makes it so that we are all mostly caught up to certain baseline of uniformity of expected social norms while back then it was like the Wild West of personalities and philosophies and hippies.



Look at Hernandez. He's just some nerdy pencil neck who was anti social and Jobs was like leader of the Nerds. It was probably a leader follower friendship dynamic. Jobs was already super alpha at the time. A king of the nerds.



Hernandez was a replaceable laborer. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. It was a task, not a legacy. Introducing friends doesn't mean they owe you.



I don't think Jobs was a d1ck at all about that.



I just think jolly ol Woz thought it was neat to celebrate that symbol of Apple origin.

lol wow you really have a mancrush on jobs don't u.

People can be weird in any decade. Oh all a sudden we've become a totally civilized culture but in the 70s it was all experimentation huh? Lol

What does the Internet have to do with jobs snubbing his first employee and childhood friend? Nothing.

Jobs the leader of the nerds? Lol you know there were computers before him and after him right? I agree he was an integral part of the pc becoming mainstream but he wasn't a Moses of the nerd people like you say.

If it wasn't for Fernandez there'd be no jobs/woz connection. That's pretty significant.

Most jobs of value offer a growth path or stock options at best. Even if it wasn't "how they did things in the 70s" jobs could've always offered it later. But he didn't. Imo it's a d**k move.

 

[CJM]

It would have been really fun to work for those companies back then. Too bad it can never happen again. You can't just build smartphones in your garage. It requires million dollar factory lines with immensely small parts. There are all of these agreements that must be signed and most minimum orders are incredibly huge. There will never be another Wozniak-like character tinkering in a garage because the barrier to entry for technology is too high. You can't compete. You'd have to invent something completely different from silicon that you could easily produce yourself. Good luck with that! The industry is moving towards nano-scale graphene and I'd like to see anyone make that in their garage.

Mmm... How about the Oculus Rift VR headset? That was prototyped in a garage a few years ago. Now it's a huge company.

 

[krravi]

He is a good judge of character.

Oh the Steve cult never gives up eh?