Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of the Apple II, and More

[laurim]

I'm not jumping to anything. Woz is simpleminded like that? Buy love? You weren't there either and you're assuming things about woz.

They were friends before the company. Fernandez was friends with jobs and friends with woz. He introduced them to each other and obviously had an integral part of helping start the Apple brand. He was employee #1. He left because he wasn't offered growth or stock options. He's said it in the article. Woz offered him stock later to show he appreciated him, being one of the first employees. Jobs offered nothing, not back then when according to you times were different, or later on when jobs could've easily offered something right along with woz. I think it's a d**k move by an old friend and based on numerous accounts of past employees, it's probably not the only time he's been a d**k.

Lol culture was raw and we were developing? What are u talking about? So jobs shaped our society and culture back then huh? That's why you call him "glorious" smh

In my house we have 3 iPhones, an iPod touch, 2 iPads, 2 Apple tvs, a mba, and a iMac and yet I don't think jobs as some glorious man. Lol

He left because he didn't have the skills to advance in the company and he was bored with what he COULD do. If you read the full article, it was the same with the next company he worked for, so it wasn't just Jobs. After that job, he didn't do anything tech for a while. When Jobs gave him another chance he was the miscellaneous jobs guy but still Jobs gave him the honor of being able to put his signature imprint with the other more important people who developed the Macintosh. You keep saying he was "integral" but really the only integral thing he did was happen to introduce two people who probably would have met each other eventually anyway since they both knew some of the same people.

 

[laurim]

Yes I understand finances. I understand taking care of your integral employee who happens to be your friend and the reason why you were able to build computers from the beginning. lol it's not a financial disaster to offer stock or even a path of growth to your friend who's responsible for you being able to realize your dream. Again, bill gates was generous in his stock options, I don't think he's in a financial ruin is he?

It's well documented how jobs treated some employees wrongly. This is another example.

My whole family has been business owners. Aunts, uncles, my mom, brother, and two cousins. I understand business.

If someone doesn't have the skills to advance, are you saying to make them a charity case because they are your friend? Pretty much a form of nepotism. Is that how your family runs their businesses?

 

[Poisonivy326]

So you're saying people in the 70s weren't weird?

You're saying people in society are the same as they were 50 years ago?

Personalities in general were more awkward and experimental with culture and ways of being. People were still figuring things out, developing into the culture we have today.

The Internet makes it so that we are all mostly caught up to certain baseline of uniformity of expected social norms while back then it was like the Wild West of personalities and philosophies and hippies.

Look at Hernandez. He's just some nerdy pencil neck who was anti social and Jobs was like leader of the Nerds. It was probably a leader follower friendship dynamic. Jobs was already super alpha at the time. A king of the nerds.

Hernandez was a replaceable laborer. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else. It was a task, not a legacy. Introducing friends doesn't mean they owe you.

I don't think Jobs was a d1ck at all about that.

I just think jolly ol Woz thought it was neat to celebrate that symbol of Apple origin.

This might come as a shock to you but there were well-established businesses in the Silicon Valley before Apple and people certainly knew what business models, stock options, etc. were.

And I don't know why you think Woz was some simple-minded soft touch. He was a talented engineer with an established career at HP. He might not have been cut out to be CEO but not everyone is. I don't think Jony Ive could ever be CEO even though he's invaluable to Apple.

 

[laurim]

I think there's a difference between being very tough and demanding (which all ceo's have to be) and outright being a jerk (which in this case Jobs was especially if Woz had to give away his stock options out of niceness). I don't doubt Tim Cook or Bill Gates are very tough and demanding. But neither seems to have crossed the line into outright cruelty or abusiveness. There's a difference.

I've read many articles and a book about Jobs and while he wasn't the most affable guy, I don't remember reading anything about him being purposely cruel. Other people hoping for more emotion from him might feel that way but having unrealistic expectations of someone doesn't make that person a cruel person. And making an appropriate business decision and having someone later do a nice thing doesn't retroactively make someone a jerk. Woz didn't HAVE to give away his own stock. He made the person decision to do so because he personally didn't care about money. If Woz had been in charge of Apple finances, Apple wouldn't exist now. So I guess Jobs had to be the mean guy in some people's eyes. Thankfully, he didn't suffer fools so he didn't care what people like you thought of him and was able to do what needed to be done to make the business successful. Might not have had the sentimentality you people would want but all the people who benefitted from Apple being successful are glad.

LOL. An article about Gates regretting giving stock options:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7713133/n...egrets-ever-using-stock-options/#.VIXUExM-BsY

Since Fernandez quit Apple only 18 months in, what are the chances he would have immediately sold that stock after he quit anyway? It's highly unlikely he would have become rich from having that stock so we're just debating about the niceness of being given stock.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

This might come as a shock to you but there were well-established businesses in the Silicon Valley before Apple and people certainly knew what business models, stock options, etc. were.

And I don't know why you think Woz was some simple-minded soft touch. He was a talented engineer with an established career at HP. He might not have been cut out to be CEO but not everyone is. I don't think Jony Ive could ever be CEO even though he's invaluable to Apple.

Thats not what I was alluding to. I didn't flesh it all out but here Ill copy the words of someone else:

"Every day we read many articles that analyze strategic business mistakes made by large corporations worldwide. Some of these articles make sense, some don’t but the bottom line is that most of these publications focus on certain details and not the big picture.

The reality is that there’s just one high level reason for most of the mistakes that were made in the last decade or so - all of these failing companies are managed by left brain executives.

The only right brain CEO the world has recently seen was Steve Jobs and the only reason he could take Apple where it is today was his executive power to control every little detail of every single product. His right brain holistic picture allowed him to correctly visualize the future and point the company in the right direction.

Unfortunately for large organizations, today most of them are managed by left brain executives. This happened for two reasons: these corporations were either started by left brain types (i.e. Larry Page and Sergei Brin of Google) or the power has been transferred to them by a left brain founder (Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates of Microsoft). Because these companies were the first ones in their industries and were so successful, they have built so much brand equity and financial power that they were on a roll for a very long time. But they world has changed. The competition with right brain types who are not afraid to think different and are able to see the holistic picture of their industries are stealing away the business from large corporations as the latter struggle to figure out the right away to move their companies into the future. "





So pretty much thats why he had to be aggressive, because he was dealing with a bunch of squares (Think PC from the Mac vs PC ads) who didn't even understand the big picture like he did and he had to literally bully people into doing what he said because they didn't understand the scope of everything like he did, so they would subconciously doubt/undermine him for being a right brain/left brain individual in a still underdeveloped, all-nerd, all-left-brain scene.

 

[macduke]

Mmm... How about the Oculus Rift VR headset? That was prototyped in a garage a few years ago. Now it's a huge company.

Depends on what your idea of a huge company is. They still have yet to sell a consumer version, and quite frankly I have my doubts that such a version would be very successful. Sure Facebook bought them for a ton of cash, but as far as I know they haven't made any profits on selling units.

Still proves my point: You have to have some billion dollar company scoop you up to scale production enough to become successful and lower the price to a reasonable level. We live in an era of subsidized technology. Everyone is used to really cheap prices because everything is scaled. Oculus got lucky that Facebook bought them and they'll be lucky to turn a profit any time soon, unlike Apple back in the day that grew more organically. All that being said, it was probably still a fun ride for those involved.

 

[InuNacho]

With Instagram pictures everywhere, it's hard to tell if thats a real old crappy polaroid or a new crappy filter.

 

[Truefan31]

Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of...

I've read many articles and a book about Jobs and while he wasn't the most affable guy, I don't remember reading anything about him being purposely cruel. Other people hoping for more emotion from him might feel that way but having unrealistic expectations of someone doesn't make that person a cruel person. And making an appropriate business decision and having someone later do a nice thing doesn't retroactively make someone a jerk. Woz didn't HAVE to give away his own stock. He made the person decision to do so because he personally didn't care about money. If Woz had been in charge of Apple finances, Apple wouldn't exist now. So I guess Jobs had to be the mean guy in some people's eyes. Thankfully, he didn't suffer fools so he didn't care what people like you thought of him and was able to do what needed to be done to make the business successful. Might not have had the sentimentality you people would want but all the people who benefitted from Apple being successful are glad.

LOL. An article about Gates regretting giving stock options:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7713133/n...egrets-ever-using-stock-options/#.VIXUExM-BsY

Since Fernandez quit Apple only 18 months in, what are the chances he would have immediately sold that stock after he quit anyway? It's highly unlikely he would have become rich from having that stock so we're just debating about the niceness of being given stock.

I'm glad he didn't care what I thought of him. Smh yall take it personal when I feel like he made a mistake not offering more to his childhood friend. I don't hold jobs as some deity figure. He did good things yes but it's not like he's incapable of doing bad things. He wasn't the best father imo either. And I feel he contributed to his own health demise by his ignorance of medical care. Oh and he thought he didn't have to bathe because of his diet.

I read the article. I still stand that your friend who helped you start your empire and introduced you to the other half in the beginning should be offered something. He wasn't a stranger employee coming in the thousands. He was employee #1 and a friend.

 

[devinci99]

Ok. He was employee #1. He introduced woz to jobs. They were childhood friends. It's a d**k move to not offer him a slice of the company. If he left after 18 months there's a reason. No growth, no options. It's messed up. If it wasn't then woz wouldn't have to give him his own shares.

I don't know the entire truthful background, but I am going through similar things trying to do a startup. In the beginning I am offering potential partners or employees to be paid in stocks (rather than cash), or cash for their service or help.

At that time, people have to decide if there is potential in the company or not... those who do not believe would only work for cash as they care less for valueless stocks.

I think there was a chance Mr Fernandez opt for a salary/cash rather than work for stocks that are worth nothing at that time.

----------

I read the article. I still stand that your friend who helped you start your empire and introduced you to the other half in the beginning should be offered something. He wasn't a stranger employee coming in the thousands. He was employee #1 and a friend.

It's not that black and white. At the beginning when Apple wasn't worth much and they were making the first Apple; Fernandez could have had the chance to ask for partnership in the venture rather than just be an employee and gotten paid a salary.

If he opted for cash at that very beginning, then it's short sighted. He could have said... "hey Jobs, you need someone like me now to help you get this started and I am willing to help you as a co-partner, pay me with stocks/percentage of the company".

Remember, Apple wasn't making a lot of money back at the beginning, and like for all startups, every dollar counts, and and they can only pay specific employees, while they try to get others to except payment in shares. Everyone they hire can make and break the company, but not everyone wants "stocks" which could be worth something in 5-10 years... but worth nothing now and couldn't even pay rent with it.

 

[Truefan31]

I don't know the entire truthful background, but I am going through similar things trying to do a startup. In the beginning I am offering potential partners or employees to be paid in stocks (rather than cash), or cash for their service or help.



At that time, people have to decide if there is potential in the company or not... those who do not believe would only work for cash as they care less for valueless stocks.



I think there was a chance Mr Fernandez opt for a salary/cash rather than work for stocks that are worth nothing at that time.

----------





It's not that black and white. At the beginning when Apple wasn't worth much and they were making the first Apple; Fernandez could have had the chance to ask for partnership in the venture rather than just be an employee and gotten paid a salary.



If he opted for cash at that very beginning, then it's short sighted. He could have said... "hey Jobs, you need someone like me now to help you get this started and I am willing to help you as a co-partner, pay me with stocks/percentage of the company".



Remember, Apple wasn't making a lot of money back at the beginning, and like for all startups, every dollar counts, and and they can only pay specific employees, while they try to get others to except payment in shares. Everyone they hire can make and break the company, but not everyone wants "stocks" which could be worth something in 5-10 years... but worth nothing now and couldn't even pay rent with it.

I understand what you're saying but in the article it states he wasn't offered growth or stock options at all.

 

[SirCheese]

Mmm... How about the Oculus Rift VR headset? That was prototyped in a garage a few years ago. Now it's a huge company.

And will be fully owned by a larger company soon. Facebook.

----------

I'm glad he didn't care what I thought of him. Smh yall take it personal when I feel like he made a mistake not offering more to his childhood friend. I don't hold jobs as some deity figure. He did good things yes but it's not like he's incapable of doing bad things. He wasn't the best father imo either. And I feel he contributed to his own health demise by his ignorance of medical care. Oh and he thought he didn't have to bathe because of his diet.

I read the article. I still stand that your friend who helped you start your empire and introduced you to the other half in the beginning should be offered something. He wasn't a stranger employee coming in the thousands. He was employee #1 and a friend.

Some of these people are way to emotional over a man who made consumer electronics. It's quite.... um... yea..

 

[Truefan31]

And will be fully owned by a larger company soon. Facebook.

----------

Some of these people are way to emotional over a man who made consumer electronics. It's quite.... um... yea..

I see that. They think I look at jobs as some horrible Scrooge while they think he could do no wrong. He was human, with flaws like anyone else

 

[CFreymarc]

Oh the Steve cult never gives up eh?

Yup and it is a good move not to have a grave for Steve Jobs.

Imagine a totally geek-ed out Jim Morrison type of grave.

People would constantly install rogue web cams, ground penetrating radar and even rigging the tombstone making it capacitive contact sensitive so you hear Steve talk when you touch the tombstone.

 

[krravi]

Yup and it is a good move not to have a grave for Steve Jobs.

Imagine a totally geek-ed out Jim Morrison type of grave.

People would constantly install rogue web cams, ground penetrating radar and even rigging the tombstone making it capacitive contact sensitive so you hear Steve talk when you touch the tombstone.

Just when I thought the cult has reached its peak......

 

[CFreymarc]

Just when I thought the cult has reached its peak......

Dude, as one ancient philosopher said, "The death of a great man just frees that spirit from the body while giving them greater life."

There has not been this much public grief of the death of a public figure since JFK.

I said here before but I'll repeat. Steve Jobs is immortalized. As the decades pass, he will place up there with the likes of Bob Noyce, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, George Westinghouse and Ely Whitney.

----------

And will be fully owned by a larger company soon. Facebook.

Like any good serial entrepreneur. Invent, market, distribute, sell company, reinvest in new company. Rinse, wash and repeat.

----------

I understand what you're saying but in the article it states he wasn't offered growth or stock options at all.

From those I know who were at Apple during the IPO, Steve Jobs was very critical of a handful of "firsties" that showed up for the initial products and didn't dive in with full dedication through the second generation of the Apple ][. Many of these "left out" also had jobs and income outside of Apple.

There were a handful of civil suits from employees and former employees that felt "cheated" not getting the options. They all played out differently.

The placating factor was "Woz-care" where Steve Wozniak ended up handing out parts of his shares to others that Steve Jobs left out on the IPO. That way, most of the early Apple employees (with the exception of bought out partners and the most dilettante) got a piece of the action.

 

[SirCheese]

Dude, as one ancient philosopher said, "The death of a great man just frees that spirit from the body while giving them greater life."

There has not been this much public grief of the death of a public figure since JFK.

I said here before but I'll repeat. Steve Jobs is immortalized. As the decades pass, he will place up there with the likes of Bob Noyce, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, George Westinghouse and Ely Whitney.

----------





Like any good serial entrepreneur. Invent, market, distribute, sell company, reinvest in new company. Rinse, wash and repeat.

----------



From those I know who were at Apple during the IPO, Steve Jobs was very critical of a handful of "firsties" that showed up for the initial products and didn't dive in with full dedication through the second generation of the Apple ][. Many of these "left out" also had jobs and income outside of Apple.

There were a handful of civil suits from employees and former employees that felt "cheated" not getting the options. They all played out differently.

The placating factor was "Woz-care" where Steve Wozniak ended up handing out parts of his shares to others that Steve Jobs left out on the IPO. That way, most of the early Apple employees (with the exception of bought out partners and the most dilettante) got a piece of the action.

There have been many people since JFK that have had this kind of public grief, that's just a silly and absurd statement.

And sorry, but I disagree that he will be up there with the likes of the people you mentioned in the future. Most people won't care in 10 years except the diehard Mac fans.

 

[CFreymarc]

And sorry, but I disagree that he will be up there with the likes of the people you mentioned in the future. Most people won't care in 10 years except the diehard Mac fans.

I'd take that bet but there is almost no way to wager this even at the London betting shops.

Get your head out of code, technology and look at the public as a whole. To those outside the business, Silicon Valley and Steve Jobs are interchangeable and synonymous.

 

[SirCheese]

I'd take that bet but there is almost no way to wager this even at the London betting shops.

Get your head out of code, technology and look at the public as a whole. To those outside the business, Silicon Valley and Steve Jobs are interchangeable and synonymous.

The public as a whole, won't care in 10 years or even 5 years from now. Save for the diehard Apple fans.

 

[kdarling]

I've read many articles and a book about Jobs and while he wasn't the most affable guy, I don't remember reading anything about him being purposely cruel.

I suppose it depends on your definition of cruelty.

He was well known for berating employees in meetings in deliberately mean ways. Apple employees carefully avoided getting on an elevator with him, fearful that he'd be in one of his moods where he just wanted to fire someone.

He refused to give severance or any notice to Pixar employees, when he was cutting jobs there.

He would sometimes sit in on job interviews just to harass the poor SOB who was applying for a job at Apple, asking them if they were virgins or ever took LSD.

Remember, Apple wasn't making a lot of money back at the beginning, and like for all startups, every dollar counts, and and they can only pay specific employees, while they try to get others to except payment in shares. Everyone they hire can make and break the company, but not everyone wants "stocks" which could be worth something in 5-10 years... but worth nothing now and couldn't even pay rent with it.

They're not talking about shares at the beginning. They're talking about giving shares later on when the company was doing well.

Another early employee (#12) who didn't get stock options was Daniel Kottke, who was a friend of Jobs who had also traveled around India with him in 1974. His name is one of those inside the early Mac shells.

An Apple VP of Engineering later brought up this lack to Jobs, and even said that he'd personally match whatever Jobs gave Kottke. Jobs replied, "Okay, then I give him zero."

I said here before but I'll repeat. Steve Jobs is immortalized. As the decades pass, he will place up there with the likes of Bob Noyce, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, George Westinghouse and Ely Whitney.

If he's remembered at all in a few decades, Jobs will be remembered more like other consumer device salesmen such as Ron Popeil of Ronco fame. The only difference is, Popeil actually invented half the stuff he hawked.

 

[Truefan31]

Early Apple Employee Bill Fernandez Shares Details on Steve Jobs, Creation of...

I suppose it depends on your definition of cruelty.

He was well known for berating employees in meetings in deliberately mean ways. Apple employees carefully avoided getting on an elevator with him, fearful that he'd be in one of his moods where he just wanted to fire someone.

Didn't know that. That's pretty bad.

He refused to give severance or any notice to Pixar employees, when he was cutting jobs there.

I see it's not just Apple employees.

He would sometimes sit in on job interviews just to harass the poor SOB who was applying for a job at Apple, asking them if they were virgins or ever took LSD.

Didn't know this. Is it documented?

They're not talking about shares at the beginning. They're talking about giving shares later on when the company was doing well.

Yup. Jobs could've shown appreciation by offering stock options but we all know he didn't.

Another early employee (#12) who didn't get stock options was Daniel Kottke, who was a friend of Jobs who had also traveled around India with him in 1974. His name is one of those inside the early Mac shells.

An Apple VP of Engineering later brought up this lack to Jobs, and even said that he'd personally match whatever Jobs gave Kottke. Jobs replied, "Okay, then I give him zero."

Like I said it was a d**k move by jobs imo.


If he's remembered at all in a few decades, Jobs will be remembered more like other consumer device salesmen such as Ron Popeil of Ronco fame. The only difference is, Popeil actually invented half the stuff he hawked.

Idk. I do question it because obviously he's not regarded as highly as some here think by the lack of interest in portrayals of his life.

The Pirates of Silicon Valley is prolly my favorite movie about jobs/gates. Entertaining.

 

[kdarling]

The Pirates of Silicon Valley is prolly my favorite movie about jobs/gates. Entertaining.

Speaking of which...

 

[laurim]

I understand what you're saying but in the article it states he wasn't offered growth or stock options at all.

You can't offer someone growth if they don't show any potential. He didn't get offered "growth" at the next company he worked for either. You need to start your own company and see how far you get carrying everyone who works for you whether they contribute or not. When you are in charge, you have to make tough choices, even if they involve friends. Until you actually have a management position you won't know how things work in real life. At the same time you called people out for idolizing Jobs seem to be inflating the importance of Fernandez who doesn't seem to have anything special going for him other than happening to know Jobs and Woz at the right time in history. Seems like you have had an experience in your past where you feel like someone didn't give you something you thought you deserved and are projecting that onto here.

P.S. "Prolly" is not a real word. I know it will eventually make it into the dictionary as all the other lazy slang has but it's not a real word. Is "probably" really that hard to type?

 

[senseless]

I'm sorry, but, the first few lines of this article are typical Apple myth and revisionism. The Apple II was not the only serious game in town. The RadioShack TRS-80 family outsold it by a wide margin for quite some time, and the Commodore PET/CBM series did better globally. Each machine had its drawbacks and features that trumped the others', and none was perfect. The PET had no bitmap, but it had lowercase letters. Apple II had bitmap color (just barely), but the PET and TRS-80 came with their own monitors. The PET came with a reliable tape drive, but the Apple II had more robust internal expansion. There were trade-offs on each system.)

I'm sick and tired of people attributing the creation of the personal computer as we know it to Apple and Woz. Yes, Apple's very top-of-mind now. Yes, Woz's designs were brilliant (no more than, say, the work of Chuck Peddle, Bill Seiler, Steve Leininer, Lee Felsenstein, etc...).Yes, we get where this attention is coming from.

It’s one thing to base who was first on press release dates and the like. It’s even understandable to emotionally favor your own first computer over those of the competition’s. In the end, “firsts” are immaterial. But to say that the Apple II was the Wright Flyer I, comparing everything else to a “shoddy little plane” is the hight of arrogance, ignorance, and bald deception.

Yes, I do remember the TRS80 displayed in Radio Shack stores and almost bought one. I believe it was $595, but just black and white and just 4K of memory. They weren't very serious computers, even then. Had they executed better, RS would be a giant today.

 

[Truefan31]

You can't offer someone growth if they don't show any potential. He didn't get offered "growth" at the next company he worked for either. You need to start your own company and see how far you get carrying everyone who works for you whether they contribute or not. When you are in charge, you have to make tough choices, even if they involve friends. Until you actually have a management position you won't know how things work in real life. At the same time you called people out for idolizing Jobs seem to be inflating the importance of Fernandez who doesn't seem to have anything special going for him other than happening to know Jobs and Woz at the right time in history. Seems like you have had an experience in your past where you feel like someone didn't give you something you thought you deserved and are projecting that onto here.

P.S. "Prolly" is not a real word. I know it will eventually make it into the dictionary as all the other lazy slang has but it's not a real word. Is "probably" really that hard to type?

lol how do u know he didn't show potential? It's not carrying every employee in your company. He was their first and their friend. If woz can show appreciation to him why couldn't jobs? I think it's evident he contributed he wasn't just a no-name employee. Offering growth or stock isn't carrying anything. It's appreciating an integral employee who helped start your company.

I've already said I've started businesses. Tough choices are made every day. But you learn that taking care of people that helped you is important too. If Fernandez had nothing to contribute he wouldn't be employee number 1.

I'm not inflating anything. I'm saying that jobs "probably" made some d**k moves and this to me is one of them. Lol you act like its a financial disaster helping one person when you're company is successful. It seems like the people idolizing jobs are incapable of realizing he wasn't a holy man who never did anything wrong.

I'm sorry I didn't know you were the grammar police here. I can see how worked up you got over using non-perfect English in a non-formal forum on the Internet.

 

[EightBitJoe]

Yes, I do remember the TRS80 displayed in Radio Shack stores and almost bought one. I believe it was $595, but just black and white and just 4K of memory. They weren't very serious computers, even then. Had they executed better, RS would be a giant today.

The entire TRS-80 family, when it was around, outsold the Apple II in the same time period. The TRS-80 Models III and onward were very serious computers. RadioShack, at one time, was the industry leading personal computer company.

Suggested books:

Priming the Pump by David and Theresa Welch
Fire in the Valley by Paul Freiberger