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like Steve say : how can this be!!!

think, think

not even bill gates on amd, relase a new cpu, chip, or anything slower than it's predecessor, well, maybe bill on windows, but not APPLE.
 
Re: Re: Other variables

I bought a dualie 1 Ghz from the Miami store on Wednesday (they got them a day late because they are on the East Coast). Everyone at the store was very apologetic because I came in the day before and they weren't there yet. I do have to say that the new box hauls ass. I previously had an 867 Mhz box and still have a 667 TiBook and this new Mac rocks. I don't know how it compares to the previous dualie 1 Ghz, but I have run Warcraft III and Max Payne with all settings set to maximum at full Cinema HD resolution (I took the $500 rebate) and they didn't skip a beat. Not to mention this is with the ATI and not the GeForce Ti.

I do want to add my comment on the PC vs. Mac debate. I have had several multi Ghz processor PC machines. However, none have reliably done what I have been able to do with this baby out of the box. I have hooked it up to a Cinema HD display and a 1600x1200 monitor (dual display setup). I have had it playing LOTR in the DVD player, playing a 384kbps RealPlayer stream, AND running VirtualPC full screen on the second monitor. There were no performance hits... it ran like a dream.

I just kicked all of these programs off and expected them to work. I would never do this on a PC because I would be afraid some of the stuff would crash. If I was on a PC, I probably would have closed some of the stuff. Now, you might say why would I do that. Well, I'll tell you. I bought the first 1 Ghz PC ever released (this was a couple of years ago). I also got the best gfx card ever available at the time. I figured I would be able to do all kinds of stuff with that power. Well, guess what I could do a lot. But, many things were slower than they had to be (MP3 encoding especially). Also, the damn machine crashed quite a bit (every other day). Now, my Macs (including the one I bought a couple of days ago), don't have this problem. They have the hugest advantage over the PC bull****. They KNOW the hardware. They can take advantage of it. It doesn't crash all the time because of some weird incompatibity.

The problem with PC hardware is everyone has to program to the lowest common denominator. I don't mean the slow stuff either. I mean that everybody has to program for "compatibility." I have custom built many cutting edge PCs in my lifetime. You know the ones that everybody talks about when they talk benchmarks. But these boxes always seem to have problems. They crash with certain programs or they refuse to recognice certain CDs or something goes wrong. In other words, the custom built speed demon I built with the 2 AMD processors, the fast RAM, the ultimate GfX card, and the big shiny ***** runs Warcraft III at 30 fps for 15 minutes but then crashes with no explanation. When, at the same time, the Apple with less Mhz, less Gfx card, less RAM, and less shiny *****, runs faster and does not crash. Why. Because of hardware integration. This is more important than clock speed, DDR, or whatever. All of you people who complain about Apple having a slower CPU are missing the big picture. The big picture is that Apple hardware is so well integrated that everyting can take advantage of everything. The other guys have to go with the LCD (lowest common denominator).


Originally posted by BobVB


Not just custom configurations. I placed my order for the stock dual 1 GHz immediately after they were available too - mine is still 'being assembled' too.

Why do they say 1-3 days when they know there is no chance of them actually shipping it in that time frame?
 
where's my mac?

I ordered a dual 1Ghtz on Feburary 2nd with an upgrade to the Nvidia Geforce Ti and it never shipped. Then the new ones came out and and Apple sent me an email saying "Hey we got these new ones you should cancel your order and get one of these." No problem. I ordered the new 1 Ghtz, upgraded the graphics card and tacked on the 120 GB hard drive but I STILL DON'T HAVE A MAC!

Apple, ship us our Macs, please. I'm an impatient man running Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Cubase, Finale, and a video game or two on a 5 GB hard drive PC laptop (Dell), not to mention the 800 MB of MP3s I've got on there.

I'm ready to make the switch! But my new 10 GB iPod already collecting dust.

LET'S GO APPLE! SHIP THOSE BAD BOYS!
 
I do not have time to read all the posts before I make my reply... sorry if I talk about something already resolved.

I have, for a long time, distasted the tests done by BareFeats. One wonders why they continue to use macs when all they ever want to do is show off the areas that they lack in.

Saying this, as someone who usually believes that slagging off Apple because you did not get what you want is rediculous and not thought through, I think the latest release was ****E.

A lot of people have said "compare faster to faster and fastest to fastest" ect. BUT you have to remember that usually Apple takes the high end machines processor and puts it in the low end model.

I can understand that Apple would NOT have wanted to make the low end models processor too fast because the new low end should never be faster than the old high end but adding 67MHz is pretty piss poor, even in a DP situation.

Why does the Xserve have 66/33Mhz PCI but the PowerMac only 33MHz.

Why bother using DDR if you are going to choke it?

To tell you the truth, I would be happy with a DP867 IF it was on the 7470 because the DDR would be being used effectively.

2 CD drives is GREAT but why can't I have a Super/Combo Drive and a DVD-ROM??? I am NEVER going to burn to 2 CDs at the same time so why pay for 2 burners?

Where is the ATA133... the demand for more bigger drives is still growing at the same pace it always had and soon the average PowerMac Pro user will be crying out for hard disks they can't have?

Now, I will point out that I am NOT one who is asking for this 1.2/1.4/1.6 people have spoken about... I am not interested in the M/GHz for M/GHz sake... I want OVERALL power upgrade that will allow for new technologies to be incorporated for at least 3 years and I really think that:

1) this was not supplied; and
2) this should have been when the mentioned add-ons should have been added... the time was perfect.

I don't know about anywhere else but here in Australia the prices of the PowerMacs has gone up, significantly in the case of the 1.25GHz, but the performace increase was quite small.

Looks like Apple has gone back to its rediculous RAM pricing again.... just emphasises that you should NEVER configure a machine before you get it if you can... it is cheaper to buy Apple RAM seperate than in a configure to order machine.

To leave on an up note, I LOVE the idea of a headphone port on the front of the machine. It is not a new idea but one that should be across the board.
 
Where is the ATA133... the demand for more bigger drives is still growing at the same pace it always had and soon the average PowerMac Pro user will be crying out for hard disks they can't have?

ATA133 has nothing to do with drive size.
 
Originally posted by mdurg
Where is the ATA133... the demand for more bigger drives is still growing at the same pace it always had and soon the average PowerMac Pro user will be crying out for hard disks they can't have?

ATA133 has nothing to do with drive size.

I might be mistaken but I was sure that some of the new 200+GB drives will only work on a 133 bus. I have no idea why this is, esp. since the drives max out at about 55MB/s but that is what they require.

What is the HD company starting with W?
 
137 GB

all ata/100 and ata/66 controllers are limited to 137GB
You must have ata/133 or ata/serial to have access to more
You can check www.sonnettech.com, www.siig.com etc.
the way around it is to put it in a firewire case
www.westerndigital.com has the new 200 dives on there websight
Someone before thought if you partition are 137GB+ drive it might work but I dont know.
 
Re: 137 GB

Originally posted by daveg5
all ata/100 and ata/66 controllers are limited to 137GB
You must have ata/133 or ata/serial to have access to more
You can check www.sonnettech.com, www.siig.com etc.
the way around it is to put it in a firewire case
www.westerndigital.com has the new 200 dives on there websight
Someone before thought if you partition are 137GB+ drive it might work but I dont know.

Thanks... I knew someone could expain it in the detail needed.
🙂
 
Like I said, ATA133 has nothing to do with hard drive size. That Western Digital 200GB is an ATA100 drive. It's probably a MacOS limitation or a limitation with the Sonnet cards.

ATA100 or ATA133 is the interface for how fast the disk cache talks to the system. Once you have used the disk cache, it's all up to the rotational speed of the disk.

As far as I know only Maxtor has ATA133 drives. They are the ones who created the spec and I don't think anyone else bought into it (yet.)
 
technically you are correct
However (please correct me if I am wrong} according to all the ata100, ata/66, ata/133 card makers-sonnet-acard-siig-alchemy etc both pc and macs most have a ata/133 card to access more than 137GB. ata/66-ata/100 controllers are limited to 128 GB max.
Western Digital even acknowledges this on thier website and includes a ata/133 card with there 200GB drive.
The interface standard on the drive dosnt' really matter much!
What matters is what type of controller you are using if you want access to more than 137GB. all the ata controller sites acknowledge this.
 
This is why the Barefeats resluts are the same:

"The "SDR" Power Mac 1GHz MP had 1GB of PC133 CL2 SDRAM.
The "DDR" Power Mac 1GHz MP had 768MB of PC2700 CL2.5 DDR RAM
The "DDR" Xserve 1GHz MP had 1.5GB of PC2100 CL2.5 DDR RAM
All three were running from an IBM 120GXP drive.

They each had a different graphics card but none of the tests listed on this page are graphics intensive. The DDR Power Mac had a Radeon 9000 while the SDR Power Mac had a GeForce4 MX. "

If the DDR computer runs programs at the same speed and requires 25 % less ram, well then, it sounds like the better computer to me. 😉

There has been speculation that the Radeon card is actually very slow compared to the GeForece cards. And, the tests conducted in Jaguar are graphics intensive because of Quartz Extreme.
🙄
 
quicksilver vs (whatever these are called)

I had a chance to play around with some of the new PowerMacs at the Apple Store over the weekend.

Of course, I wasn't doing any "official" benchmarking or anything like that, however the new PowerMacs didn't seem any faster than the Quicksilvers. I'm sure they have a few tricks up their sleeves, but my 733Mhz Quicksilver seems to hold its own, for now. Granted, I'm not doing any "pro" applications.

The silver bay doors showed all of the customers fingerprints real well. At home, they'd look cool because we'd not be putting fingerprints all over them.

A really big plus for the new PMs, they seem to have alot of great software. I don't know if they come with it, or it was only on there for demo purposes.

Everyone who ordered one should be pleased. 🙂 I'll have to wait for the next round to get a new one.

Tim
 
Do the Apple stores have all 3 on display?

I'd like to try some FCP stuff on all three of the new Mac's and see what the speed diferences are. Do the stores actually have the 1.25 Ghz machines on the tables to play with?
 
L3 Cache

Have you noticed in Apple's write-up about the new line of PMs, how much they emphasize the L3 cache's contribution to performance? Because of that, I am quite torn in my decision of which PM to buy. It would be an easy choice if Apple didn't cut the L3 cache in half on the dual 1ghz model. I guess they figured most folks wouldn't notice. I like some of the improvements, but I can't help but suspect that they will be offset by the smaller L3 cache size, making me tempted to get a Quicksilver dual-1ghz, with the good ol' 2MB L3 cache.

I shouldn't complain, because either way, I am getting that power for much less money than I would have a week ago, but I want to make the most informed decision.

How would you weigh the smaller L3 cache vs. DDR/faster bus/new architecture?

Any ideas when/where we might see some more benchmarks?
 
L3 cache vs all the enhancements

I think the old dual will beat the new old dual any day on anything when equipped the same.
But it cant always be equipped the same
That said its the other things that make the new one an intriging buy
dual 51/4 bays dual hard drive controllers, 4 count them 4 hard drives. 10.2 for free, sound in , headphone up front, slightly better looking to me, 2GB of memory instead of 1.5 this will probably help it win some benchmarks if maxed out. Giant power supply will keep all those hard drives humming better.
The faster bus will come in handy on upgrades with small multipliers and on 3d games
thats just my take on it.
but I only have $300 dollars
Help
You cant go wrong with either it really depends on how much you plan to upgrade the insides and how much you want to pay
 
Re: L3 Cache

Originally posted by yadmonkey
Have you noticed in Apple's write-up about the new line of PMs, how much they emphasize the L3 cache's contribution to performance? Because of that, I am quite torn in my decision of which PM to buy.

Buy the new one, it's a "major" architectural change - one of the first of this level in quite awhile (last B&W to AGP/MaxBus Sawtooth) - and betting on the newest versions has usually paid off it better long-term flexibility than those they have replaced.

While many may consider this an interim step on the road to the next processor generation, bus change, and full DDR support coming hopefully soon - you also have this to think about...

With the introduction of QE, the video is really starting to play a "key" role in the Mac's daily usefullness - the extra bandwidth with DDR will allow you to take better advantage of this than the QS machine will.

The Mirror Mac also has more internal storage space, better cooling, a second optical bay, bigger power supply, etc.

It's still your choice...
 
Originally posted by soilchmst
This is why the Barefeats resluts are the same:

"The "SDR" Power Mac 1GHz MP had 1GB of PC133 CL2 SDRAM.
The "DDR" Power Mac 1GHz MP had 768MB of PC2700 CL2.5 DDR RAM
The "DDR" Xserve 1GHz MP had 1.5GB of PC2100 CL2.5 DDR RAM
All three were running from an IBM 120GXP drive.

They each had a different graphics card but none of the tests listed on this page are graphics intensive. The DDR Power Mac had a Radeon 9000 while the SDR Power Mac had a GeForce4 MX. "

If the DDR computer runs programs at the same speed and requires 25 % less ram, well then, it sounds like the better computer to me. 😉

There has been speculation that the Radeon card is actually very slow compared to the GeForece cards. And, the tests conducted in Jaguar are graphics intensive because of Quartz Extreme.
🙄

You have to remember that once you get up to 768MB of RAM, most of these programs used for testing are getting more than their fair share of RAM anyway so there is no difference. Also, on the topic of Quartz Extreme, it only needs 32MB of VRAM PLUS it takes the weight off the processor so if QE was to make any difference it would be in the favour of the new machine. The old machines were running on Puma so the old 1GHz could have a GeForce4 MX but that means nothing when it is not being used to any significant level.
 
His new test is done. 🙄

I do like his new picture, very pretty ... not very useful.

load_perf.gif


Somehow, I think if this guy was ask to compare and contrast the market for full-sized cars sold in the US by looking at and testing three of them, he'd end up choosing the Crown Victoria, Grand Maquis, and Lincoln Town Car.
 
Just so your clear

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


... on the topic of Quartz Extreme, it only needs 32MB of VRAM PLUS it takes the weight off the processor so if QE was to make any difference it would be in the favour of the new machine. The old machines were running on Puma so the old 1GHz could have a GeForce4 MX but that means nothing when it is not being used to any significant level.

Check the stats, the tests are using 10.2 on the old macine 🙄 What I am getting at is that the photoshop 7 and export quicktime tests are faster on the old dual. This could be because less cache, or it could be because of the old dual having a much faster video card and having better support from the OS X. Anyway, my point is that systems do need to have the same options to yeild valid tests 😎

When looking at real world performance, the key is "snappier," which can be a very small benchmark number and can be affected by the amount of RAM and type of videio card.
 
Re: Just so your clear

Originally posted by soilchmst


Check the stats, the tests are using 10.2 on the old macine 🙄 What I am getting at is that the photoshop 7 and export quicktime tests are faster on the old dual. This could be because less cache, or it could be because of the old dual having a much faster video card and having better support from the OS X. Anyway, my point is that systems do need to have the same options to yeild valid tests 😎

When looking at real world performance, the key is "snappier," which can be a very small benchmark number and can be affected by the amount of RAM and type of videio card.

Doh! It he was using 10.1.5 on the SDR when I looked at it the first time but it has been updated since then.

The Xserve is still on Puma though and it wins out on some tests but overall all 3 machines come in about the same. I think the RAM and graphics cards mean nothing in these tests BUT the tests should be re-done with the same configurations when it is possible for such a test to be done.

It is time to realise the facts.... 7455 and DDR = a product that SOUNDS better than one with SDR. The real test will be the 7470
 
Guys...

... the benchmarks may be not that professional, but face the truth, the new machines are not faster than the old ones.

I was testing the new DP1000 yesterday at an Apple dealer side by side with the old DP Quicksilver, both running 10.2, same amount of RAM, etc... pp...

The dealer was doing the set up himself to be able to compare the machines (he doesn't want to tell the people just what is written by Apple marketing).

And what I can tell you? 😱

You almost don't notice any difference in real life... it was kinda disappointing!

No new Mac before the next update of the PowerMacs, it's not worth the money, when you already have a DP800 or DP1000 Quicksilver.

I think the best deal ist still the little DP867... it is a good deal compared to the former low-end model...

groovebuster
 
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