Early Benchmarks Put Retina MacBook CPU Performance in Range of 2011 MacBook Air

[LordVic]

Just going by the description of the company (in Ontario). Worked at a company (on and off / and on and off contract-wise) that would fit that description. A spin-off of Footprint (there were at least 2 of those). I know by that comment I am dating myself

I'm not sure who that would be. but just furthers my point that we aren't an industry exception to what i'm saying that there are many MANY software vendors who just will not make OSx compatible platforms.

(its not a slight against OSx, which is a very good OS, its just, not business economical, especially for the enterprise)

 

[newellj]

doesnt matter really. Nobody buys this machine to play games or do serious work I assume. Its a premium laptop for daily average use (browsing, photo library, facebook, word, excel, etc)

Im buying it because I think force touch is interesting and so that my wife can get a golden bling laptop for our family photos and to be on facebook.

There are literally hundreds of billions of dollars of revenues that disagree with your statement that using Excel and Word are not "serious work."

 

[bkkcanuck]

No Prob. Sorry I can't provide more information. Just not something I feel comfortable with sharing on a public message board.

My opinions here, do not reflect my company and are not meant to be coming from my company. I like to keep this life (personal) seperate and don't feel comfortable really "spilling the industry beans".

I was just commenting on the fact that if Apple decided to cut Windows support in some way from their products, it would be a very poor business decision, from my opinion.

if you're mainly a consumer though, I don't know of many products though that don't have similar, and compatible software between the two. Even microsoft has Office available for OSx now, which as long as that continues, gives a great deal of support to using OSx for business use.

Apple is going to limit the Windows OS support to those that have drivers that are certified supported for specific Windows versions (in this case Windows 8.1). You would have to go around bootcamp to see if enough drivers are out there to run Windows 7 (but it would be unsupported). It is interesting to note that Microsoft is releasing Surface 3 which will be considerably less powerful than the Macbook -- running Windows 8.1.

I would not have recommended running Windows, but apparently Microsoft does

 

[newellj]

It's difficult to tell whether the anti retina MacBook posters are narrow-minded or simply haters.

Simply haters. Or adolescents sitting in a cubicle making decisions based on spec sheets and benchmarks whose only need for a computer is to run games and have a pathological need to demonstrate their manliness by producing numbers rather than work.

 

[crsh1976]

We always knew the rMB was not about horsepower, Core M is not a bad chip (especially not considering its TDP), but it's still a weird one to sell; the Geekbench score may have been removed, but on PassMark we can still compare average scores for the M-5Y17 (1.2 GHz) and the fastest chip used in 2011 MBA (1.8 GHz Core i7 2677M): https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2465&cmp[]=880

They're pretty much the same, even the GPUs are roughly the same sort of low-end graphics cards - again, they're good for everything but gaming and that's what those chips are supposed to be used for anyway: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=26&cmp[]=2921

Again, the beauty of the Core M is the super low TDP and working in fanless machines, the same cannot be said about the older, hotter chips used in laptops of yore.

 

[bkkcanuck]

I'm not sure who that would be. but just furthers my point that we aren't an industry exception to what i'm saying that there are many MANY software vendors who just will not make OSx compatible platforms.

(its not a slight against OSx, which is a very good OS, its just, not business economical, especially for the enterprise)

The UI for the other company could run on "OS X" -- it is java.... just would have to go back and clean things up for font sizes (default font used). The server is the same. If someone were to pay for it, it would be done (contracts in the millions anyway).

A lot of hardware though on the desktop is old old old crap.... a lot of it is just used for terminal access..... I have also been through a change in specifications between versions that would have boosted the requirements beyond what they had on their desktop (6 year old) and all the complaints on how much it was going to cost.

Then you run into companies like Global Strategies (now part of AGF I think) that had macs on all the desktops (way before OS X) and PCs with remote access if you needed it back in the data centre

It is not a matter of one OS being better than the other.... just that it run on obsolete and ultra-cheap hardware

 

[shenan1982]

these kind of people are so cute

Says the guy buying a windows computer

----------

Simply haters. Or adolescents sitting in a cubicle making decisions based on spec sheets and benchmarks whose only need for a computer is to run games and have a pathological need to demonstrate their manliness by producing numbers rather than work.

Yep!

 

[LordVic]

It is not a matter of one OS being better than the other.... just that it run on obsolete and ultra-cheap hardware

and this is a trend that will always exist in corporate / enterprise world because the decision makers are always going to come down to pencil pushing accountants whose primary role is to budget profitability.

if a $600 workstation is more than adequate for your personnel to do all their work.

why would you approve $1,500 for them? Hence back to my point that generally speaking, there's no real Apple penetration into the corporate world.

And Apple has not gone after them in anyway.

 

[subsonix]

I was just commenting on the fact that if Apple decided to cut Windows support in some way from their products, it would be a very poor business decision, from my opinion.

if you're mainly a consumer though, I don't know of many products though that don't have similar, and compatible software between the two. Even microsoft has Office available for OSx now, which as long as that continues, gives a great deal of support to using OSx for business use.

Yeah, on the other hand Office was available for PPC as well so that's not really strictly a question of architecture. And the amount of different systems used by companies varies, and things move to cloud providers and web. I'm just tired of the stagnation that the Wintel lock-in has brought with it.

 

[TWSS37]

But apparently all the sighing hasn't induced you to change to Windows or, better yet, start your own company and offer a better product?

Is "start your own company and offer a better product" the new "Apple should just buy x"?

 

[LordVic]

Yeah, on the other hand Office was available for PPC as well so that's not really strictly a question of architecture. And the amount of different systems used by companies varies, and things move to cloud providers and web. I'm just tired of the stagnation that the Wintel lock-in has brought with it.

I'm with you.

I don't have input on product direction. I've been saying for yeras it's time for a complete rewrite to leverage far newer technologies that are platform agnostic.

but we're talking about 20+ years of constant development, millions of lines of code and a fundamental architecture change for not only ourselves, but our clients.

trust me. My job is to figure out how to deploy to our clients. I feel the hurt.

 

[AppleInLVX]

Buying soemthing that is 4 years old tech wise will cause you to upgrade your machine sooner and will suffer the consequences of being choked by newer oses 2-3cyckes down the line. If it wasn't because I installed a mod mountain lion on my MacBook I would have upgraded king ago. the official lion upgrade made the machine half as good as it was before it.

I'm not sure it matters. Given that most people will upgrade within 4 years or so anyway, this device will hold its own for what it is designed for. As for overpriced, we *are* talking about Apple, here. Remember:

 

[rdlink]

Going to depend what country you're in. Apple is jacking up prices around the world, but not in America on many of their products;

MacBook is 1549. Canadian
the RMPRO starts (albeit with 128gb storage, but faster everything else) for 1549.

so you get the choice for the entry price of 1549 between: Faster CPU, Faster GPU, slightly bigger higher res screen, more ports, more upgradability options (albeit you pay more), or, smaller, lighter thinner.

You can't compare a computer with 128GB of storage to one with 256GB. Period.

 

[bcc2k]

Some other guy apparently got different results:
https://twitter.com/Omelyanko/status/583602411245281281/photo/1

 

[LordVic]

You can't compare a computer with 128GB of storage to one with 256GB. Period.

Why?

storage isn't everyones #1 concern.

Apple also charges $200 for this upgrade, where the competition is doing for less.

if you can compare CPU to CPU, screen to screen, storage to storage, and make a logic decision based upon your own needs, than you can very well include the storage options as a comparison feature.

what you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter that the Pro is faster in every single metric, because it's got 128gb less storage.

Question then, why doesn't Apple also offer the rMB in a 128gb option and drop the base price $200?

 

[TWSS37]

Apple is going to limit the Windows OS support to those that have drivers that are certified supported for specific Windows versions (in this case Windows 8.1). You would have to go around bootcamp to see if enough drivers are out there to run Windows 7 (but it would be unsupported). It is interesting to note that Microsoft is releasing Surface 3 which will be considerably less powerful than the Macbook -- running Windows 8.1.

I would not have recommended running Windows, but apparently Microsoft does

The new Surface 3 is meant to be more tablet specced and used (price point $499) that will obviously run 'real' Windows and not RT, but the direct comparison is the Surface PRO 3, which does score higher than this, significantly in fact.

 

[bkkcanuck]

and this is a trend that will always exist in corporate / enterprise world because the decision makers are always going to come down to pencil pushing accountants whose primary role is to budget profitability.

if a $600 workstation is more than adequate for your personnel to do all their work.

why would you approve $1,500 for them? Hence back to my point that generally speaking, there's no real Apple penetration into the corporate world.

And Apple has not gone after them in anyway.

Generally I agree with you, but on larger custom software purchases -- accountants rarely have a lot of input. In fact I was told by a friend of mine (C-Level exec in Singapore).... even though your software costs millions of dollars ... at my level your budget is no more than a rounding error at most.

If you can sell them on your software being of strategic interest, you have much more room to work with. And of course your company has to be large enough to sue if things go wrong (which is why small companies have a hard time getting in the door).

The big investment that is going to be made in development for financial systems for banks etc. is on the server (Unix/Linux) side (not Windows, not OS X, not even MS SQL).

Apple has made inroads into business (small, not huge) even with the high cost of hardware... but usually by companies that are trying to mix it into the decor of their "prestigious" offices.

 

[hans1972]

It's not a joke, but you know what's worse; I'm not surprised.. Because every year Apple loses their ambition to make better laptops.. They put some make-up on the existing line and TaDaa Here comes 2016 Macbook or Pro or Retina or..

It is a better Mac if you value less size and weight above CPU performance!
There is a large group of users who does not need CPU performance at all. Also for a lot of users of this machine, it will be their secondary or tertiary machine. The heavy lifting will be done on their other machine(s).

I am planning to use this to run VMware Fusion with sometimes 2 virtual machines running at the same time, and the CPU will be just fine for that.

How do I know? Because I could run it fine with a Core2Duo from 2010!

 

[newellj]

What you're forgetting is the Original Macbook air as launched was not successful. it was seen as too slow, too few ports and way too expensive (sound familiar?)

it wasn't till the 2010 (I believe) refresh, where Apple moved to the i5 series CPU, added magsafe, thunderbolt and 2 USB, and price dropped to a $999 base price that the Macbook air popularity took off.

I think V2.0 of the rMacBook will likely do the same.

I think the question is whether the rMB is more like the 2008 MBA or the original iPad (took only one generation to reach really classic form)?

 

[LordVic]

Generally I agree with you, but on larger custom software purchases -- accountants rarely have a lot of input. In fact I was told by a friend of mine (C-Level exec in Singapore).... even though your software costs millions of dollars ... at my level your budget is no more than a rounding error at most.

If you can sell them on your software being of strategic interest, you have much more room to work with. And of course your company has to be large enough to sue if things go wrong (which is why small companies have a hard time getting in the door).

The big investment that is going to be made in development for financial systems for banks etc. is on the server (Unix/Linux) side (not Windows, not OS X, not even MS SQL).

Apple has made inroads into business (small, not huge) even with the high cost of hardware... but usually by companies that are trying to mix it into the decor of their "prestigious" offices.

Correct. I wouldn't say they're having zero impact. BYOD office situations for a lot of users do allow for it.

And parallels can cover a large majority of usage scenarios for lots of people. For all else there's BootCamp.

there is nothing wrong with the hardware. I really love a lot of what they do in design and look, But it's quite often, that it doesn't trump actually getting work done in the end.

we have ventured so off topic now lol

 

[newellj]

This is an April Fools post, right?

I cannot comprehend how someone can defend a $1300 machine having the same performance as something that came out *four years ago*.

If Dell or HP did the same thing you'd be calling them idiots, fools, and stupid for choosing form over function.

Maybe it's because people care more about real world use than paper specs? Oh, I forgot, this is MacRumors...

 

[LordVic]

I think the question is whether the rMB is more like the 2008 MBA or the original iPad (took only one generation to reach really classic form)?

if I could see the future I'd tell you

Ideally, I'd like to see them do the following for V2

- make a 4gb ram / 128gb storage option
- add 2nd USB-C port somehow
- Start at $999

do this, and they could easily drop the MBA line and sell these things like hotcakes.

However, I'm wondering if the CPU isn't a potential barrier to cost in this particular case. I'm not sure how much the CPU is. When looking at the new Surface 3, its interesting that Microsoft opted for the Atom CPU instead of this one and was able to hit a price point nearly 1/3rd. it leads me to make a guess that the core M costs quite a lot more than the Atom x7

It is hard to compare SSDs built in one computer to another without knowing what it is they are using - performance and quality differ widely. Samsung PCIe based SSDs are used in mac products, and they usually are not the cheapest. Some are still (gasp) using SATA3 based SSDs. So I would only use SSD for a price comparison within the same suppliers products using similar technology (i.e. macbook air vs macbook price).

Apple may very well offer "lower priced" options, and I expect them in the fall.... but it makes no sense to bring in the complete line if your supply is constrained (which it probably will be).... Once things settle down there will probably be a config available for $999 .... maybe even $899 depending on component prices.... later this year. The macbook is not an extension to the macbook air line, it is a new line. Macbook air's days may be numbered though - but that depends on whether they merge the low end into a redesigned macbook pro line (also in the fall or later).

I'm quoting you out of order (I WENT BACK IN TIME MUHAUAHUAHUAH)

I think I've said pretty much the same thing as you in my comment above

 

[bkkcanuck]

Why?

storage isn't everyones #1 concern.

Apple also charges $200 for this upgrade, where the competition is doing for less.

if you can compare CPU to CPU, screen to screen, storage to storage, and make a logic decision based upon your own needs, than you can very well include the storage options as a comparison feature.

what you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter that the Pro is faster in every single metric, because it's got 128gb less storage.

Question then, why doesn't Apple also offer the rMB in a 128gb option and drop the base price $200?

It is hard to compare SSDs built in one computer to another without knowing what it is they are using - performance and quality differ widely. Samsung PCIe based SSDs are used in mac products, and they usually are not the cheapest. Some are still (gasp) using SATA3 based SSDs. So I would only use SSD for a price comparison within the same suppliers products using similar technology (i.e. macbook air vs macbook price).

Apple may very well offer "lower priced" options, and I expect them in the fall.... but it makes no sense to bring in the complete line if your supply is constrained (which it probably will be).... Once things settle down there will probably be a config available for $999 .... maybe even $899 depending on component prices.... later this year. The macbook is not an extension to the macbook air line, it is a new line. Macbook air's days may be numbered though - but that depends on whether they merge the low end into a redesigned macbook pro line (also in the fall or later).

 

[sdf]

It shouldn't be a Macbook for anyone unless you want a slow notebook and just want to donate some money to Apple.

Speed isn't as important in the real world as longetivity. Laptops don't get replaced because they're slow in that sense; they get replaced because they're very slow because something (hard drive, motherboard, GPU, CPU) stops working correctly and BECOMES an order of magnitude slower.

It seems likely to me that this design will last double or more.

 

[truettray]

The only real problems I have with this machine is the price and the webcam resolution.