Early Palm Pre Review: WebOS Off to Great Start But Bad Keyboard

[marksman]

"As much as iPhone and App Store is a success for Apple, it's a humiliating
defeat for the rest of the mobile industry," said Bengt Nordstrom, Chief
Executive of telecoms consultant Northstream.
"Twenty years of efforts from operators and vendors to create mobile
applications that customers like is overtaken in a heartbeat by someone that
never done it before," Nordstrom said.

That may be like the funniest dumb quote I have ever seen in my life. That guy has to be a certifiable moron.

Twenty years of the worst effort from operators and vendors who were more interested in milking and screwing their customers without giving them anything useful, or worthwhile.

The reason it was so easy for Apple to take over was because they sucked so bad for 20 years. If there was any actual value or benefit to the work the rest of the industry had done for 20 years, it might have been even a tiny bit more difficult for Apple to achieve what they have. Instead they sucked so bad and thumbed their noses at their customers for so long figuring they didn't have to listen to people or make anything useful, that when the time came it was like people who came crawling from the sand dunes for 10 days if they would like a sip of water, and then saying the guy at the end who gave them a sip of water undid all the efforts of the sand dunes to provide them water.

 

[Mord]

I think allot of people are missing the more important point that palm is ditching windows mobile and actually bringing something to the market that will move things forward not back, competition is a good thing and this isn't merely an iphone clone. It's a fully featured mobile device with a new open and exciting operating system, that's not to be sneered at.

 

[zap2]

I think allot of people are missing the more important point that palm is ditching windows mobile and actually bringing something to the market that will move things forward not back, competition is a good thing and this isn't merely an iphone clone. It's a fully featured mobile device with a new open and exciting operating system, that's not to be sneered at.

Agreed. WebOS looks to be a top notch OS.

Admittedly the Pre doesn't look to be my type of device(CDMA, slider keyboard) but its a promising start, and I'm sure we'll see more WebOS handhelds soon!

 

[zap2]

Can iPhone OS do contact syncing with the cloud and merge all those contacts? No.

Well it can sync with the cloud, but admittedly not in all the ways the Pre can.

Can iPhone OS do multitasking for 3rd party apps? No. And Push Notifications don't count.

Well I don't know why push notifications don't count...but if they aren't your cup of tea, alright

Can iPhone OS recognise drag&dropped songs, videos and apps? No.

Nope, it does not. And if thats something your looking for, I agree the Pre looks good for you(or at least the iPhone doesn't look good for you)

Can webOS do what the iPhone OS does? Yes.
/QUOTE]
Now slow down..clearly the Pre can't do everything the iPhone can. I think what we should do is look at what each persons wants and needs are, and then go from there.


Something we can both say is the Pre and iPhone are both top notch devices!

 

[thetexan]

I'm interested to try out the UI for myself. I think it will sell well, but its not going to take away from the iPhone. But we shall see how smoothly launch goes and how well sprint holds up.

Palm isn't trying to take anything away from Apple. Palm isn't banking on a single iPhone user dumping their iPhones and moving to the Pre. Also, Palm isn't trying to take away from iPhone future sales either.

What they are betting on is the fact the smartphone market is going to grow, and it's going to grow fast. There is enough room for all the players to be successful.

I said it once and I'll say it again: With as great as the iPhone is it didn't kill a single company financially or hurt sales for any other smartphone producer. RIM, MS, and Android are all still doing very successfully.

Palm is not trying to compete with Apple, they'd be stupid to do so and they know that. They're making a device that is capable of standing on its own, and considering how impressive version 1.0 software is along with 1.0 hardware they're off to a good start.

 

[MikeTheC]

You are leading a tough life.

Why do you say that?

 

[dragossh]

MobileMe...

As others said, it's not even close to Synergy and adds additional costs.

Safari, Weather... and 3rd party developers could write their apps to do this

I should have made that clear. Multiple, different, independent windows running at the same time While Safari knows about pages, it's like saying OS X has tabs acting as a titlebar as a feature when it's really just a Safari feature.

Except talk on the phone while using another application.

You're confusing the network on which the device runs with the actual capabilities of the device. The GSM Pre will happily let you do both.

Well I don't know why push notifications don't count...but if they aren't your cup of tea, alright

Because you can't rapidly switch between 2 or 3 apps with Push Notifications

Now slow down..clearly the Pre can't do everything the iPhone can. I think what we should do is look at what each persons wants and needs are, and then go from there.

In terms of major features, the two devices are on par.

Both devices are great, and I hope Palm forces Apple to be more innovative with the iPhone OS. Almost nothing changed in 2 years (especially UI-wise), just features and more features that were supposed to be there in the first version (copy&paste, MMS).

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

As others said, it's not even close to Synergy and adds additional costs.

I agree. There are apps that mix your contacts with your facebook contacts though. I do think the way the Pre does it is much better, though. Given the choice between the fourth generation iPhone and the second generation Pre, if things continue the way they are going, I would grab a Pre.

I should have made that clear. Multiple, different, independent windows running at the same time While Safari knows about pages, it's like saying OS X has tabs acting as a titlebar as a feature when it's really just a Safari feature.

Sure, but if a 3rd party app developer wants this sort of functionality in their app they can implement it. Again, I know what you're saying and I do like the way the Pre does it more. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

You're confusing the network on which the device runs with the actual capabilities of the device. The GSM Pre will happily let you do both.

Either way, the phone can't do what the iPhone can.


mmmmmmn GSM Pre. I can't wait until my iPhone's contract runs out. I'll have so many swell phones to choose from.

Because you can't rapidly switch between 2 or 3 apps with Push Notifications

Not to mention the push notifications are sloppy, ugly, and get in the way. Give us something low profile, Apple!

In terms of major features, the two devices are on par.

For the most part I agree, the Pre's 3rd party support is dismal though and Apple's 3rd party support is too crippled, in my opinion.

Both devices are great, and I hope Palm forces Apple to be more innovative with the iPhone OS. Almost nothing changed in 2 years (especially UI-wise), just features and more features that were supposed to be there in the first version (copy&paste, MMS).

Agreed. Apple needs to implement a file system, a more organized UI, 3rd party app support sans app store, and multitasking.

 

[MikeTheC]

This is why competition is a healthy thing. It's not that Apple isn't innovative or even pioneering, it's that Apple (like any other company) needs to be kept on its toes. It's better for us, the customers, in the end.

 

[charlituna]

This is Apple's worst nightmare.

your opinion. based on your belief that Apple wants to be the market leader in all things.

shocking thought. maybe they don't. maybe they are happy right where they are. maybe they improve their hardware and software based on what they want and not on what every other company is doing.

And maybe, so long as Palm didn't achieve via trade secrets etc, they don't really care about the Pre and how well it might do (think about it, if there is a new iphone coming out, there is nothing that would have stopped Apple from having a Cupe Campus Town Meeting a month ago and announcing it just to try to dig into Pre sales)

 

[Chase R]

I'm actually pretty impressed with it so far. It's good to see some "real" competition out there against the iPhone. I still plan on getting a white iPhone this summer though

 

[dragossh]

For the most part I agree, the Pre's 3rd party support is dismal though and Apple's 3rd party support is too crippled, in my opinion.

There's the PalmOS emulator that's coming out, which gives the Pre access to about 50,000 apps. I'm sure that webOS will get a lot of useful apps, especially with developers like Pandora who praise it and its development tools (it took 3 days for Pandora to write their app ).

 

[firewood]

The true test here is to see Quake or Monkeyball ported to the Pre in Javascript/HTML.

You set your bar way way too low.

imho

 

[MikeTheC]

You set your bar way way too low.

imho

Yeah. How well does the Prē run Portal, HalfLife 2, and... and... Tetris?

 

[pavvento]

I agree. There are apps that mix your contacts with your facebook contacts though. I do think the way the Pre does it is much better, though. Given the choice between the fourth generation iPhone and the second generation Pre, if things continue the way they are going, I would grab a Pre.



Sure, but if a 3rd party app developer wants this sort of functionality in their app they can implement it. Again, I know what you're saying and I do like the way the Pre does it more. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.



Either way, the phone can't do what the iPhone can.


mmmmmmn GSM Pre. I can't wait until my iPhone's contract runs out. I'll have so many swell phones to choose from.


Not to mention the push notifications are sloppy, ugly, and get in the way. Give us something low profile, Apple!



For the most part I agree, the Pre's 3rd party support is dismal though and Apple's 3rd party support is too crippled, in my opinion.


Agreed. Apple needs to implement a file system, a more organized UI, 3rd party app support sans app store, and multitasking.

You can't ignore the fact that it is a network feature. Someone who owns an iPhone in a non 3G area cannot talk while surfing the web, does that mean the iPhone can't? The feature is network dependent.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

You can't ignore the fact that it is a network feature. Someone who owns an iPhone in a non 3G area cannot talk while surfing the web, does that mean the iPhone can't? The feature is network dependent.

Yet, the iPhone can do it. The Pre in its current iteration, no matter what, cannot.

 

[MikeTheC]

That may be like the funniest dumb quote I have ever seen in my life. That guy has to be a certifiable moron.

I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

Yes, absolutely I agree 100%. Apple came along and did it way the heck better, and in addition not only did they do it "better" but, as you say, they "did it better" against an industry that was totally complacent.

As I said, competition is a fabulous thing. And now, look around at all these other phones that have come out since the iPhone. Regardless whether you might think they still suck compared to the iPhone, it's all too obvious they are in response to the iPhone, and that they are better than whatever the manufacturer in question had previously put out.

A rising tide floats all boats, and so everyone -- even those who aren't any kind of an Apple customer -- benefit indirectly from Apple's presence in the cell phone industry.

 

[firewood]

I know from experience that Javascript running on today's hardware is certainly fast enough for casual usage, but it's not comparably fast and efficient as C running on the hardware of yesteryear--especially when we're talking about running it on mobile devices where it takes a considerable performance hit.

I'm not talking about efficiency, just pure speed. And I am talking about mobile devices such as the iPhone, Android G1 and Pre.

I've made actual measurements. A mobile CPU of today is a faster at some things than some supercomputers of yesteryear (I wrote some megaflop benchmarks for my iPhone to use for comparison).

The CPU on an Pre is more than a magnitude or two faster than many early PC's and Unix workstations, and Javascript slows it down by an order of a magnitude or two. Roughly a push.

Excel, Word, Photoshop, even things like Oracle enterprise database systems, were first developed for and on systems with less than the performance and memory available strictly under Javascript and WebKit on the latest mobile CPUs. If customers want that class of app bad enough (e.g. in $$$) on WebOS, raw performance won't keep developers (those who haven't been made lazy by contemporary systems) from being able to deliver.

 

[shakenmartini]

There's the PalmOS emulator that's coming out, which gives the Pre access to about 50,000 apps. I'm sure that webOS will get a lot of useful apps, especially with developers like Pandora who praise it and its development tools (it took 3 days for Pandora to write their app ).

IMHO, this was a really dumb move by Palm. There are a lot of dev's that instead of working as fast as possible to port to WebOS, are now going to wait and see if the platform takes off. This means old style apps, without UI consistency and OS consistency and a feeling of "kludge" for using old apps in an emulator.

This does not bode well for a company (Palm) that will not be around next year if the Pre is not a success.

This is always the "Chicken and egg" aspect of a new platform. You lots of users to make developing for the platform attractive, while you need lots of great apps to attract new users to the platform.

 

[Full of Win]

Apple needs to change some of the metaphors with the iPhone in the next update (4.0), the most pressing of which is how to organize applications on the springboard. The "flick till you find it" method, looking for icons you cannot change or rename, just will not cut it.

Also, don't count Apple out just yet - they have to deal with legacy support of older and less powerful hardware. It will much easier next update to move past it and take more advantage of the stronger hardware.

 

[stainlessliquid]

I guess everyone forgot about all the reviews blasting the iphones keyboard when it first came out.

Clearly all small keyboards have learning curves on how to press them.

 

[hefeglass]

everyone who doesnt like the current virtual keyboard on the iphone will be REALLY happy when os 3.0 compatible hardware starts flowing into the marketplace....
OS 3.0 will allow dock hardware and the OS to fully communicate...making a little keyboard sliding into the dock port very possible. I imagine many companies will be designing external control devices like this. we can hope

 

[Mackan]

I guess everyone forgot about all the reviews blasting the iphones keyboard when it first came out.

Clearly all small keyboards have learning curves on how to press them.

Yeah, keyboard is a typical thing that takes a little time to get used to. It's a matter of personal preference as well.

I think the Pre looks very promising. It brings a fresh compelling UI and multitasking. It has replacable battery and can act as a USB mass storage device. It simply gives you more freedom than what Apple gives with their devices.

I think Apple will understand when they check the Pre that they must start to implement and support multitasking in a better way. The Pre's card system is very clever, and instantly gives a solid view on what is going on, on the phone.

 

[sjo]

Well I don't know why push notifications don't count...but if they aren't your cup of tea, alright

maybe because push notifications are not multitasking, they are push notifications. some times some use case can be implemented using one or the other, but generally they are not substitutes.

if i want to know when i have new emails: push notification is the right tool.

if i go jogging, want to listen last.fm while i'm jogging, and want my phone to gps track my path, speed, elevation changes etc: multitasking is what is needed.

 

[LagunaSol]

Palm isn't trying to take anything away from Apple.

What???

I seriously doubt that's what's being said in Palm's corporate meetings...