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Early Palm Pre Review: WebOS Off to Great Start But Bad Keyboard

pomus said:
I love the competition that the Pre bringing to the iPhone, but I wonder what WebOS would have been like without WebKit. I know that it was around before Apple bought them, but Apple has done some amazing things with WebKit. I'm just curious to know what path Palm would have taken if WebKit didn't exist.
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WebKit was not around before Apple adopted KHTML/KJS for the base html library and javascript foundation.

Apple created WebKit.

WebKit dwarfs KHTML/KJS and thus another reason that KDE is folding back WebKit parts back into KHTML/KJS in KDE 4.x.

It's another reason GTK+ made a port, and the GNOME Epiphany browser dropped Gecko for WebKit.

Epiphany 2.27 already moved to WebKit and Epiphany 2.28 is the first general stable release.

WebKit has evolved massively since it's first inception.

FOSS platforms GNOME, KDE and Qt Apps are leveraging WebKit backend for their Help Systems and much, much more.

Without Apple's WebKit the following applications would be drastically different:

http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/ApplicationsGtk

As you can see with QtSoftware.com:

http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/05/26/qt-service-framework/

QtWebKit Port makes it possible for Nokia and much more to leverage WebKit parts.

Without Apple bringing the communities WebKit the Mobile space and Web browser platforms would be seriously lacking.
 
I'm happy that Palm finally appears to get its products up to standard.

I used to carry an ancient Palm PDA together with a Nokia for many years, but got dismayed about the lack of progress on the software from Palm's side. They really 'threw away' their customer base by their complacency. Also the desktop software for mac was really never any good and you had to use all kinds of indirect 3rd party software to get some features to work - that was a constant headache.
 
High end? By that do you mean business and exhange? If you do that is still dominated by non iPhones. Regarding the keyboard, remember the outcry for the iPhone then came the typing with thumbs articles followed by 3rd party styluses. I wouldn't worry about high end or keyboard. If it supports exchange, it could bide very well in business.

Apple is a company that hi longer focuses in creatives and they still haven'tade a dent in business and just because some workers may want the iPhone, business development and IT know better.

QCassidy352 said:
Well, I too prefer a virtual keyboard, but either one can be done well or badly. If the keyboard on the Pre is really that bad, it will be a big blow. You just can't have your primary input method be hard to use and still have people really enjoy using the device for prolonged periods.



The thing goes on sale in a few days; we're not talking about beta hardware here. I could believe the thing about the screen catching as it slides won't be on the finished product, but you're dreaming if you think they're putting on a redesigned keyboard this close to release.

Overall, this was a good, balanced review. Sounds like the Pre has some highs and some lows (like all smartphones) but will overall be a worthy player in the high-end market. It does notsound like it will be the jesus-phone some people were predicting (nor is the iphone or anything else, before anyone gets all worked up).
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Typing on the iphone is a joke. First. It takes up half the screen and typing right now I can see 4 lines but ie cut off on the right. Second, and this is worse, with sound on, the clicking noise causes lag. You all know what I am talking about. If you turn it off, typing speed icreases but so do errors as you mind and lack of feedback causes errors, spaces that you are not sure about. The list goes in and on. Yes, we like our iPhones but if we take a good hard look, you'll see we put up with quite a few glitches and bugs to have a device that everyone has, expensive data plan and plays little media content from the web. Notice the lack of flash during the article? Wait until userrs are watching shows, MLB, hulu, slingbox and has exchange. Nice.

nagromme said:
Well feedback DOES go beyond tactile :) But looking just at tactile, I was serious when I said you know you've hit the screen. For example: think about a tiny physical keyboard with rubbery keys and no obvious click. That's very poor tactile feedback--did you hit hard enough to trigger the press or not? A tactile click is vital to know you've actually hit something (whereas the act of simply touching the key surface does nothing). Then on the other hand there's the iPhone keyboard, which DOES let you know for sure if you hit something or not--you feel your finger hit the glass clearly. So it's actually got better tactile feedback than a bad physical keyboard does. (And I've used some of those :( ) This is not to deny that a Pre or Blackberry has great tactile feedback of a different (and pleasant) kind. It's just to point out that the iPhone DOES have a lot of useful feedback for typing, and some of that is indeed tactile. (Most is visual or audio.)
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hah

Thats funny Apple:apple: sued them a while back for this pile of garbage coming out, Pre is just another crappy Palm phone. Just stop while your ahead, :eek:
 
shakenmartini said:
IMHO, this was a really dumb move by Palm. There are a lot of dev's that instead of working as fast as possible to port to WebOS, are now going to wait and see if the platform takes off. This means old style apps, without UI consistency and OS consistency and a feeling of "kludge" for using old apps in an emulator.
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Don't forget that Apple was in the same situation 10 years ago and they did the same thing and here we are: OS X is a great OS with a great collection of apps.

Backwards compatibility gives the Pre a much larger potential user base. If I know the software I'm using on PalmOS will work on this new platform, then why not switch if I can?
 
Regarding the Pre "review" in BGR. It was a pre-production unit and did not appear to have the final software installed. Plus this "review" did not say anything about the actual use/quality of the phone. I would not base my opinion on the Pre until the real reviews come in.

The Pre is a big gamble for Palm. There was an article a few weeks ago about companies that will not be around next year and Palm was included. As a user of Palm products from way back, I hope the Pre is everything they need to survive.

There are still quite a lot of Palm users who have invested a lot of money on 3rd party apps. When the Pre was introduced it was basically stated that there was no way to run the old apps. Palm listened to their customers and now an emulator called Classic from MotionApps will be available at launch. This will give the Pre access to over 30,000 apps. You can argue for/against the idea of having an emulator available. I just know that I am glad Apple included Rosetta in OS X so my intel Mac could run apps without having to wait for the developer to make compatible versions.

I am sure a lot of developers would prefer an SDK that allows full access. From what I understand the SDK will not be available until August so I would hold off judgement until its out. All of the apps that are installed on the Pre at launch are written using the SDK and they look pretty good. I also believe that right now some of the bigger 3rd parties are getting access to an SDK that allows full access to the Pre. I am pretty sure that the Classic emulator could not be written without it.

The Pre currently has a physical keyboard. The iPhone does not. Some people prefer physical keyboards and some do not. I still miss Graffiti :p. I have read rumors that there may be the possibility of a virtual keyboard released for the Pre. This would give the Pre the best of both worlds.

Synergy looks interesting but right now I do not know how I can sync my data on my Mac to the Pre. I do not really want to use the cloud to store all of that. Also I do not know how individual programs will sync their data. Will these companies have to setup their own cloud so customers can sync their data? Will I have to have a separate desktop program for each? That would be a bad idea having to run multiple programs to sync data to a phone. No real information on how that will work.

I think the term "iPhone Killer" is somewhat of a poor choice of words. When its used, I think it puts iPhone users on the defense. Without a doubt the iPhone was the 1st phone that got a lot of things right. The cell phone market is hampered by the carriers and the limitations they put on phones to nickel and dime users not to mention contracts and poor customer support and exclusivity agreements. Any time a new phone is introduced that brings something new to the table should not be immediately dismissed because its competing with an iPhone. Up until a year ago I could not even consider an iPhone because AT&T did not offer service in my town :(.

TLDR: Wait about a week for the Pre to be released and real reviews come out.
 
hiimamac said:
Typing on the iphone is a joke. First. It takes up half the screen and typing right now I can see 4 lines but ie cut off on the right. Second, and this is worse, with sound on, the clicking noise causes lag. You all know what I am talking about.
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Typing in the 3.0 software is incredibly fast.
With two thumbs, I can type faster on the iPhone widescreen keyboard much faster that I could on a physical thumb board, because there is no need to press down on the keys. And there's not a huge need for precision.

You need to try it.

I'd be willing to wager hard money cash that I could type faster on iPhone 3.0 landscape on-screen keyboard than someone else on the Pre's rather cramped physical keyboard.

C.
 
One problem i have iPhone typing is with things like twitter where you type in a box.

If you go back and edit something, its really awkward to scroll go back to the end.
 
it cannot be worse than the sluggy iphone keyboard

i hate watching the letters while i type becuase i get no tactile feedback... watching the letters means not watching the text and that means not watching the constantly failing auto completion of the iphone..
 
LagunaSol said:
What??? :confused:

I seriously doubt that's what's being said in Palm's corporate meetings...
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I guarantee you that's exactly what is being said. Palm can be very successful with the mere growth in the smartphone market without a single Apple user switching. They do not need to take sales away from Apple, RIM, Google, or Microsoft to be successful.
 
dragossh said:
Don't forget that Apple was in the same situation 10 years ago and they did the same thing and here we are: OS X is a great OS with a great collection of apps.

Backwards compatibility gives the Pre a much larger potential user base. If I know the software I'm using on PalmOS will work on this new platform, then why not switch if I can?
Click to expand...

Not really,

Apple did include OS9 support in OSX, but they basically told devs, this is only here to buy you time, not for deployment.

Even with Carbon, Apple is deprecating it (64-bit for sure, and any future for Carbon is in doubt), even though their biggest vendors (Microsoft Office and Adobe) are exclusively written in Carbon. This is for the same reason, they told devs many years ago that they were only thinking about supporting carbon in the future, but Cocoa was the future.


If WebOS is really that easy to write for, Palm should realize that old apps are old anyway and it is time to make a clean break to update the platform. Instead, we see everyone touting how there is a PalmOS emulator available and how there will be all these great apps available under the emulator at launch.

Not good IMHO.
 
thetexan said:
I guarantee you that's exactly what is being said. Palm can be very successful with the mere growth in the smartphone market without a single Apple user switching. They do not need to take sales away from Apple, RIM, Google, or Microsoft to be successful.
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Yes, but apple will be aware that it's future customers that matter for many reasons.

Those waiting to move up to smartphones are the ones that matter.

Taking late 2009 customers off apple is their prime concern.

For apple, the stakes are higher.

A palm phone is just the sale of a phone.

An iPhone is the just the beginning.

Does anyone know of someone with just one tattoo - one that was done over a year ago?

Apples are like that. Buying one is never enough....
 
shakenmartini said:
Not really,

Apple did include OS9 support in OSX, but they basically told devs, this is only here to buy you time, not for deployment.

Even with Carbon, Apple is deprecating it (64-bit for sure, and any future for Carbon is in doubt), even though their biggest vendors (Microsoft Office and Adobe) are exclusively written in Carbon. This is for the same reason, they told devs many years ago that they were only thinking about supporting carbon in the future, but Cocoa was the future.


If WebOS is really that easy to write for, Palm should realize that old apps are old anyway and it is time to make a clean break to update the platform. Instead, we see everyone touting how there is a PalmOS emulator available and how there will be all these great apps available under the emulator at launch.

Not good IMHO.
Click to expand...

And that's the entire point! The emulator is just a bridge to give developers time to port their apps to webOS. And believe me, Mojo is amazing.

"If Cocoa is really that easy to write for, Apple should realize that old apps are old anyway and it is time to make a clean break to update the platform. Instead, we see everyone touting how there is a Classic emulator available and how there will be all these great apps available under the emulator at launch." - this is exactly what you said.
 
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