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eBay iPhone buyer fraud

P

pprichar

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 10, 2013
33
0
First let me apologize if this is posted in the wrong forum. Long time reader/lurker first time poster!

I recently upgraded my ATT line to an iPhone 5. I decided to keep my Nexus 4 :D and sell the iPhone to help with the costs of attending pharmacy school in the fall.

I received instant payment from the person with verified paypal address so I promptly shipped out the phone but took some pictures of it before sending out.I have a video of me attempting to mail it via a 24 hour USPS kiosk drop box but alas it was locked. I have the original ATT receipts, pictures etc. as well as the USPS drop off receipt. It was delivered a week ago with delivery confirmation (and free shipping) to the buyer.

The buyer is now claiming I sold him a used, blacklisted phone that can't be activated on ATT and has requested full refund.

I'm frantic and about to go nuts, was banking on this money for my apartment for school! Any tips to resolving this? My Paypal account is now $-618.00 which is pretty disconcerting. Anyone ever deal with anything like this?
 
Unfortunately, eBay sides with the buyer most times. However, it sounds like you have everything you need to prove your case. You need to resolve this via PayPal's dispute system but before you do, you need to call AT&T and see if they blacklisted the phone for some reason.

Do you have the serial number and IMEI #? If not, then this clown can return any old phone and you could be stuck.
 
GoCubsGo said:
Unfortunately, eBay sides with the buyer most times. However, it sounds like you have everything you need to prove your case. You need to resolve this via PayPal's dispute system but before you do, you need to call AT&T and see if they blacklisted the phone for some reason.

Do you have the serial number and IMEI #? If not, then this clown can return any old phone and you could be stuck.
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I only have pictures of the phone that I took when selling it on eBay showing it clearly brand new with screen protector still on front and back of the phone. Other than my receipts (which don't indicate IMEI) I have nothing else. I inquired with ATT if they could identify the IMEI for me but they said the only thing they could do is report it stolen and suspend my account. But that doesn't really help me since my sim card is in my Nexus 4.

Additionally I decided to google the shipping address which seemed residential to me but turned out to be a UPS store with a PO BOX like receiving center. Really hoping my receipts are enough for eBay or the fact that I sold my other iPhone (upgraded my mom's line and sold that too - hey I pay for her line!)and the buyer left good feedback. Was hoping this would attest to my character.

I get the feeling though this is going to end with me getting ripped off.
 
pprichar said:
I only have pictures of the phone that I took when selling it on eBay showing it clearly brand new with screen protector still on front and back of the phone. Other than my receipts (which don't indicate IMEI) I have nothing else. I inquired with ATT if they could identify the IMEI for me but they said the only thing they could do is report it stolen and suspend my account. But that doesn't really help me since my sim card is in my Nexus 4.

Additionally I decided to google the shipping address which seemed residential to me but turned out to be a UPS store with a PO BOX like receiving center. Really hoping my receipts are enough for eBay or the fact that I sold my other iPhone (upgraded my mom's line and sold that too - hey I pay for her line!)and the buyer left good feedback. Was hoping this would attest to my character.

I get the feeling though this is going to end with me getting ripped off.
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Well even if he requests a refund, he has to send the phone back right?
 
yes paypal will side with the buyer and he will get an email saying to send the phone back, when you get the iPhone back he will get his money back.
But he can send you an old phone too then you have to open a case again ,hopefully it does not go that way.
 
chrisperro said:
yes paypal will side with the buyer and he will get an email saying to send the phone back, when you get the iPhone back he will get his money back.
But he can send you an old phone too then you have to open a case again ,hopefully it does not go that way.
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Exactly.
He can send you back an empty box or a piece of wood inside.
I'd take a video with the sealed box when it arrives and unbox it while you're recording.
Hoping to have lots of proof if he tries to screw you.
Sucks that you have to go through all this but seems like there's tons of scammers on ebay lately. And as a seller ebay and paypal always try to stick you.
 
Applejuiced said:
Exactly.
He can send you back an empty box or a piece of wood inside.
I'd take a video with the sealed box when it arrives and unbox it while you're recording.
Hoping to have lots of proof if he tries to screw you.
Sucks that you have to go through all this but seems like there's tons of scammers on ebay lately. And as a seller ebay and paypal always try to stick you.
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Yea, I figure even if I lose the arbitratio I have the IMEI as ATT emailed me the IMEI for me to file a police report and blacklist the phone if the guy does try to screw me.

I figure I'd videotape the delivery from whatever shipment he returns and document everything as best as possible. I'm assuming I'll get a small block of wood :rolleyes:, hopefully then PayPal will believe me, or the fact that the IMEI doesn't match what I have, at that point its me vs him and up to eBay and PayPal to hopefully make the right decision. :rolleyes:

Maybe this was the universe telling me to keep my Apple Products :apple:

----------
aimee.elizabeth said:
Well even if he requests a refund, he has to send the phone back right?
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Claiming the phone is used and blacklisted when it is obviously not, I really doubt he's going to send back the same phone I sent him. Should have googled the address it was going to, but it looked like an apartment complex just glancing at it but in reality is a UPS mailbox.

On the plus side it's more training for the fraudulent behavior in my career path. People are always passing off fake RX's at my pharmacy :\
 
Applejuiced said:
Good luck man, let us know how it went.
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Thanks, worst that could happen I assume is my PayPal account would go to a credit bureau where I could hopefully challenge it as fradualnt charges. Some would assume this would ruin my credit, but seeing as how by the time I graduate I'll owe an easy 250,000 in student debt, this won't affect it :D

I'll make sure to update this thread, I'm sure people would love to take bets on what what's inside the package I receive: A Duck? an iPhone 2G? The answer to Life? My actual phone!?

Here's looking on the bright side of the situation!:eek:
 
I used to sell on Ebay all the time, until I had someone pull the same thing with a large order of very expensive baby formula. He claimed it was all opened and expired, when it was *not*. Paypal told him to return it for a refund, and he did not. So, they closed it in my favor.

Then he filed a charge back on his credit card. I didn't get a notification of this, but he used that and not a Paypal balance. Paypal didn't even try to challenge it. I found this out when they took the money out of my account. So even though they found in my favor, I was still robbed. And no one there could see a problem with making me pay for them not even bothering to challenge a charge back.
 
Little update as of 10:37 am it has been 72 hours since the claim was opened by the buyer. No response to all my inquiries on how the phone is used, or the fact that ATT doesn't have it blacklisted.

Apparently on day 4 they can escalate the claim to eBay if they aren't satisfied and if they don't reply within 30 days the claim gets closed. Why did I feel the false sense of security of selling on eBay over CraigsList?

I guess the only difference is on CraigsList a weapon can be possibly pulled on you and robbed.
 
Good luck man. Only thing I can recommend is that you keep everything recorded on paper, Emails, texts, phone calls, etc. That way if he says that you never tried to reach him you have records to show for your efforts.
 
Same thing happened to me when I was selling sprint phone on ebay. They are scammers who usually live in other countries but have a forwarding po box or address in the US. IT protects them from seller protection policies on paypal and ebay in most cases. So you send them the phone, they keep it, open a case, then get a refund and keep your phone pretty much.
You may want to check their paypal info, thats how I spoted mine and won the case. They had a US addr on ebay and a international one on paypal.
I was like....oh lawd no.
They buyer will probably not respond btw
 
eBay

eBay blows, I am skeptical of any used phones in the bay area as there is a high likelihood they were stolen.
 
Good luck man, let us know how it went.
7k1.jpg
 
Some people are so silly. You video tape yourself boxing and shipping the phone. Include the IMEI, serial number ect page. You show this, turn it off, close box, put in shipping box, seal and send all in the same un-edited video. You do these things and there is NO way you will ever lose. Then when they say you cheated them you simply say "Ohhhhh reallllllly" and inform them you have a video of you sending the phone. See how fast they either 1. decide you're not cheating them or 2. continue on their stupid path and you end up sticking it to them when all is said and done.

Either way you come out smelling like a rose and they like a pile of dog poo. You don't take these steps and that's on you. Seems like a lot to go through to not get cheated but sadly it's the world we live in these days. I have over 1300 pos ebay transactions with ZERO losses. I have sold many products with $1000 plus auction price and have never lost a dispute. Why? Because I'm not stupid and I cover my butt with such videos.
 
AFDoc said:
Some people are so silly. You video tape yourself boxing and shipping the phone. Include the IMEI, serial number ect page. You show this, turn it off, close box, put in shipping box, seal and send all in the same un-edited video. You do these things and there is NO way you will ever lose. Then when they say you cheated them you simply say "Ohhhhh reallllllly" and inform them you have a video of you sending the phone. See how fast they either 1. decide you're not cheating them or 2. continue on their stupid path and you end up sticking it to them when all is said and done.

Either way you come out smelling like a rose and they like a pile of dog poo. You don't take these steps and that's on you. Seems like a lot to go through to not get cheated but sadly it's the world we live in these days. I have over 1300 pos ebay transactions with ZERO losses. I have sold many products with $1000 plus auction price and have never lost a dispute. Why? Because I'm not stupid and I cover my butt with such videos.
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You are pretty right ! But the situation is that not everyone has enough experience dealing with this kind of staff. Unfortunately, he just had a bad chance.
 
AFDoc said:
Some people are so silly. You video tape yourself boxing and shipping the phone. Include the IMEI, serial number ect page. You show this, turn it off, close box, put in shipping box, seal and send all in the same un-edited video. You do these things and there is NO way you will ever lose. Then when they say you cheated them you simply say "Ohhhhh reallllllly" and inform them you have a video of you sending the phone. See how fast they either 1. decide you're not cheating them or 2. continue on their stupid path and you end up sticking it to them when all is said and done.

Either way you come out smelling like a rose and they like a pile of dog poo. You don't take these steps and that's on you. Seems like a lot to go through to not get cheated but sadly it's the world we live in these days. I have over 1300 pos ebay transactions with ZERO losses. I have sold many products with $1000 plus auction price and have never lost a dispute. Why? Because I'm not stupid and I cover my butt with such videos.
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I agree! However in my time researching this even if you video tape packaging, driving and delivering it to UPS/USPS/FedEX eBay will still side with the buyer (at least thats what I read) - they eventually won the dispute after challenging it on PayPal when they presented all the information. But PayPal had the gaul to ask for a police report also! In my case you would think receipts of the purchase as well as emails from ATT saying the IMEI is not blacklisted would be enough considering the other person has only 3 positive feedback and I have 100+ from over 11 years! Character means nothing on eBay apparently.

Needless to say the person eventually got a chargeback!

For me though, since they still haven't elevated the claim on the 5th day or responded I have to wait 15 more days for it to automatically close. I get the feeling they were arrested for something unaffiliated to me - but thats hoping :D
 
AFDoc said:
Some people are so silly. You video tape yourself boxing and shipping the phone. Include the IMEI, serial number ect page. You show this, turn it off, close box, put in shipping box, seal and send all in the same un-edited video. You do these things and there is NO way you will ever lose. Then when they say you cheated them you simply say "Ohhhhh reallllllly" and inform them you have a video of you sending the phone. See how fast they either 1. decide you're not cheating them or 2. continue on their stupid path and you end up sticking it to them when all is said and done.

Either way you come out smelling like a rose and they like a pile of dog poo. You don't take these steps and that's on you. Seems like a lot to go through to not get cheated but sadly it's the world we live in these days. I have over 1300 pos ebay transactions with ZERO losses. I have sold many products with $1000 plus auction price and have never lost a dispute. Why? Because I'm not stupid and I cover my butt with such videos.
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Even that doesn't work in cases where the buyer issues a chargeback for the item. Unless they have changed their policy recently, even if you submitted such evidence and they found in your favor, it all goes out the window and you still lose the money and the item.

They don't fight chargebacks. All they do is take the money out of your account and say there is nothing they can do about it. They are so huge now there is little any sort of boycott or bad publicity can do to them.
 
HidingAmatanth said:
Even that doesn't work in cases where the buyer issues a chargeback for the item. Unless they have changed their policy recently, even if you submitted such evidence and they found in your favor, it all goes out the window and you still lose the money and the item.

They don't fight chargebacks. All they do is take the money out of your account and say there is nothing they can do about it. They are so huge now there is little any sort of boycott or bad publicity can do to them.
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What about suing in small claims court? I'm you should could convince a judge that they are helping to facilitate fraud and are directly involved with the management of the money.
 
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