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eBay iPhone buyer fraud

HidingAmatanth said:
Even that doesn't work in cases where the buyer issues a chargeback for the item. Unless they have changed their policy recently, even if you submitted such evidence and they found in your favor, it all goes out the window and you still lose the money and the item.

They don't fight chargebacks. All they do is take the money out of your account and say there is nothing they can do about it. They are so huge now there is little any sort of boycott or bad publicity can do to them.
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Don't have money in your PP account at all times, no way to take money back.
 
Just sent me this message:


Buyer's message:
Phone is blacklisted. We want to return. I will call ebay and paypal now to escalate. Im not gonna keep a phone that is not as described. $600 phone and it can not be used.

Any tips? Already posted all the evidence showing it brand new and not blacklisted
 
A nice little update to this. Yesterday my "Paypal Smart Connect" credit card payment was due so I decided to pay it, which had a balance of $25. Today looking at my Bank Account Paypal withdrew $643.99. Which is the amount the phone was worth + my balance. After calling my bank, who directed me to PayPal's customer service (which is miserable) they told me even though I didn't authorize that transaction they did it anyway. Saying it was because of my dispute with the eBay buyer.

Christ. How is this even legal? An authorized transaction for $25 turns into $643.99? Hell my account STILL says $-618.99 but was reassured that it will go back to positive once payment was received. This is so absolutely absurd!

Someone tell me it's going to be ok :(

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3M4IL6o1H4WVDRyUXhSTUtma1k/edit?usp=sharing
 
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So PP gave the guy back his money or they just took your money waiting for you to confirm you have the phone back?

Whatever happens, be sure to video the entire process of receiving the package, opening it, etc etc.
 
AFDoc said:
Some people are so silly. You video tape yourself boxing and shipping the phone. Include the IMEI, serial number ect page. You show this, turn it off, close box, put in shipping box, seal and send all in the same un-edited video. You do these things and there is NO way you will ever lose. Then when they say you cheated them you simply say "Ohhhhh reallllllly" and inform them you have a video of you sending the phone. See how fast they either 1. decide you're not cheating them or 2. continue on their stupid path and you end up sticking it to them when all is said and done.

Either way you come out smelling like a rose and they like a pile of dog poo. You don't take these steps and that's on you. Seems like a lot to go through to not get cheated but sadly it's the world we live in these days. I have over 1300 pos ebay transactions with ZERO losses. I have sold many products with $1000 plus auction price and have never lost a dispute. Why? Because I'm not stupid and I cover my butt with such videos.
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Do you also video yourself driving to the post office? Standing in line? Paying the postage?

I think what you're trying to do with the videos is establishing a chain of custody. However, I don't think this helps much when it comes to paypal disputes.

As someone has already pointed out, your videos do nothingto protect against a credit card charge-back, which is very common in paypal scams.

I think filing a small claims dispute against paypal would probably be the best way to go. However, enforcing that judgement will be a whole other issue.
 
oneMadRssn said:
Do you also video yourself driving to the post office? Standing in line? Paying the postage?

I think what you're trying to do with the videos is establishing a chain of custody. However, I don't think this helps much when it comes to paypal disputes.

As someone has already pointed out, your videos do nothingto protect against a credit card charge-back, which is very common in paypal scams.

I think filing a small claims dispute against paypal would probably be the best way to go. However, enforcing that judgement will be a whole other issue.
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By enforcing that judgement you mean actually getting paypal to pay me back?

I have video of me the night before attempting to deliver it to the 24 hour kiosk but it was locked (stupid right?)

What I do have is receipts of me dropping it off at the post office, receipts of the phone being purchased from AT&T, as well as emails from AT&T confirming the phone is not blacklisted.

Now, why they just "took" money out of my account without my authorization is what's really getting me now. At anytime PayPal can just take money? Sounds kinda ass-backwards to me.

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GoCubsGo said:
So PP gave the guy back his money or they just took your money waiting for you to confirm you have the phone back?

Whatever happens, be sure to video the entire process of receiving the package, opening it, etc etc.
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I had already withdrawn my funds like 14 days ago. Paypal still has my account as -618.99 because the funds are "on hold" because of the dispute.

My issue is when I went to go pay my "paypal smart connect" they just took the 618.99 out of my bank without telling me. I wouldn't be so pissed if they sent me an email saying they were doing that. But nadda.

I'm totally going to videotape the entire thing. I refuse to get ripped off on something I know was brand new.

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Also I shot off an email to http://www.consumerist.com to see if they were interested in maybe making some inquireies on eBay's and PayPal's activities on fraud. Not sure if it will garner any support but I can dream.
 
pprichar said:
By enforcing that judgement you mean actually getting paypal to pay me back?
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That's right. Assuming you win the dispute with paypal, but the buyer does a change-back, and PayPal still takes your money. Suppose you file a small-claims court claim against PayPal, saying their "Seller Protection" should cover you for this, and that they're just passing the buck and facilitating fraud or something. Odds are PayPal won't show up, and you will win the default judgement. PayPal can still just ignore you while you run around trying to actually enforce that judgement. Eventually, they will have to pay, but they can make it difficult and a giant waste of everyones time.
 
oneMadRssn said:
That's right. Assuming you win the dispute with paypal, but the buyer does a change-back, and PayPal still takes your money. Suppose you file a small-claims court claim against PayPal, saying their "Seller Protection" should cover you for this, and that they're just passing the buck and facilitating fraud or something. Odds are PayPal won't show up, and you will win the default judgement. PayPal can still just ignore you while you run around trying to actually enforce that judgement. Eventually, they will have to pay, but they can make it difficult and a giant waste of everyones time.
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Awesome, they can just take money from me willy-nilly but when a judge hypothetically orders them to pay me back they can just side step it?
 
pprichar said:
Awesome, they can just take money from me willy-nilly but when a judge hypothetically orders them to pay me back they can just side step it?
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Out of curiosity, did they take the money from your bank account? Or from your credit card?

If it was from your credit card, couldn't you then do a charge-back as well?
 
They piggy backed it on a payment to my "paypal smart connect" credit card. So they took it from my bank account as an "echeck".
 
Ebay

Hope you get it back, but I never use Ebay anymore..I lost money with them too....I use Amazon to buy and sell
 
I have heard that in rare occasions, sellers do win buyer protection cases. But very rarely. If the buyer escalates the case, speak with a customer service representative. Ebay's customer service phone number is insanely difficult to find, but do some searching and you should be able to find it. You might have to wait on hold, but try to speak to a live person. Let them know what happened, and see if you can upload your photos/videos. See if you can get the ebay rep to add a note to your case. The note isn't something you can actually see, but I've heard it can be read by the actual ebay rep who makes the final case verdict.

I know what you're going thru is tough. I still haven't dared to sell anything expensive on ebay, because of all there horror stories.
 
ebay is so messed up, the best thing to do in future for such high valued items get the person to meet up with you and pay you cash.

That way no banks involved.
 
It'sMyPrecious said:
I have heard that in rare occasions, sellers do win buyer protection cases. But very rarely. If the buyer escalates the case, speak with a customer service representative. Ebay's customer service phone number is insanely difficult to find, but do some searching and you should be able to find it. You might have to wait on hold, but try to speak to a live person. Let them know what happened, and see if you can upload your photos/videos. See if you can get the ebay rep to add a note to your case. The note isn't something you can actually see, but I've heard it can be read by the actual ebay rep who makes the final case verdict.

I know what you're going thru is tough. I still haven't dared to sell anything expensive on ebay, because of all there horror stories.
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Yea I actually spoke to someone there, did me no good. Got an email this morning:

"Details:
Decision:
We've asked the buyer to return the item to you for full refund.

Comments:
The buyer has been asked to return the item to you. Once tracking shows the item has been delivered to you, the buyer will be issued a full refund.

You can also view the details of this case in the Resolution Center."

Now the fun begins! smh. I guess there is literally never enough evidence for the seller to win the decision.

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Applejuiced said:
So they took the money back even though he hasn't send you the phone back?
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They took the money out of my bank account and placed it on "hold" until I receive the phone.

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Nicholas.C said:
ebay is so messed up, the best thing to do in future for such high valued items get the person to meet up with you and pay you cash.

That way no banks involved.
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I think I'll just stop buying so much electronics. Stupid of me to think the genpop can act civil, I should know this I deal with addicts all the time at work that try to defraud the system. Oh well. Let the fun begin with the "phone" that I receive in the mail.

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Also just something fun:

The buyer already shipped the phone at 12:19 am from Florida. And now my 1.1 Lbs phone now weighs.... 6 Lbs. wtf? Oh god how much does a brick weigh? - Yep, 6 Lbs is the average weight of a brick. Awesome....fml
 
eBay/Paypal are great at being an accessory to comit fraud.

I was scammed once for a $15 item (I was the buyer) and they refused to cover the loss because it was under $25. So much for eBay/PayPal protections.

I don't know how to proceed except to continue documenting everything, wait for the brick to arrive in the mail, and see if PayPal finally gives your money back to you. If not, it gets complicated.

Of course, the buyer is long gone with your phone, you will most likely never be able to track him down to file a small claims case.

The only one you can probably sue in small claims court is Paypal. Hopefully they don't show up and you will win a default judgement, or they will settle before the court date.

I wonder what PayPal usually claims when they go to court over stuff like this? I bet someone has made a blog post about sueing PayPal, it would be good to know their typical defense claims so you can try to counter them if needed.

Best of luck.

EDIT: A guide to sueing PayPal, I hope you don't need it.
http://www.screw-paypal.com/resources/small_claims_court.html
 
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Richdmoore said:
eBay/Paypal are great at being an accessory to comit fraud.

I was scammed once for a $15 item (I was the buyer) and they refused to cover the loss because it was under $25. So much for eBay/PayPal protections.

I don't know how to proceed except to continue documenting everything, wait for the brick to arrive in the mail, and see if PayPal finally gives your money back to you. If not, it gets complicated.

Of course, the buyer is long gone with your phone, you will most likely never be able to track him down to file a small claims case.

The only one you can probably sue in small claims court is Paypal. Hopefully they don't show up and you will win a default judgement, or they will settle before the court date.

I wonder what PayPal usually claims when they go to court over stuff like this? I bet someone has made a blog post about sueing PayPal, it would be good to know their typical defense claims so you can try to counter them if needed.

Best of luck.

EDIT: A guide to sueing PayPal, I hope you don't need it.
http://www.screw-paypal.com/resources/small_claims_court.html
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I can have hope that they refund me after the police report and video of me opening the package to a brick or other 6 Lbs object. I actually already started reading that "screw PayPal" page the day the buyer opened a claim. I'm fairly familiar with how to file a small claims case as I did a summer internship at a superior courthouse where I worked in the clerks department (both criminal and civil). I doubt PayPal or eBay would show up though and like an earlier poster noted, good luck getting paid cause I think its going to be a battle.
 
Actually (since I hardly remember anything from my internship) I have a question for any legally minded people. Would I file a joint suit against eBay, PayPal and the Buyer? The buyer's "confirmed address" is a UPS store apparently.

I'm guessing sue PayPal because they are the ones that mishandled the money, but eBay are the ones that ultimately made the decision. I R CONFUSED!
 
I had the same issue a while back with an iPhone 4S. I had an ebay auction and one person emailed me and said he would pay $350 through paypal and we negotiated for 2-3 hours and I got $400. Buyer sent me a LA address (looks to be a warehouse when I did a street view of it). Buyer had great ebay reviews (good score).

Phone shipped, then the buyer emailed me 4-5 days later saying I sent him an empty box with nothing in it. He then opens a paypal dispute saying I sent him the wrong phone. Paypal sided with him, he shipped me a shell of a old windows mobile phone (probably 10 years old). Just a shell, shipped form China. I get a hold of paypal and told them someone sent me a package from China and its not even a phone, its a plastic mold of a phone.

They said to file a police report, which I did and then submitted it back to Paypal. I got my money back, but took about 2-3 months.
 
anish3232 said:
I had the same issue a while back with an iPhone 4S. I had an ebay auction and one person emailed me and said he would pay $350 through paypal and we negotiated for 2-3 hours and I got $400. Buyer sent me a LA address (looks to be a warehouse when I did a street view of it). Buyer had great ebay reviews (good score).

Phone shipped, then the buyer emailed me 4-5 days later saying I sent him an empty box with nothing in it. He then opens a paypal dispute saying I sent him the wrong phone. Paypal sided with him, he shipped me a shell of a old windows mobile phone (probably 10 years old). Just a shell, shipped form China. I get a hold of paypal and told them someone sent me a package from China and its not even a phone, its a plastic mold of a phone.

They said to file a police report, which I did and then submitted it back to Paypal. I got my money back, but took about 2-3 months.
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About to run off to work, thanks for giving me some peace of mind even if it will take a LONG time. I gathered all the information for a potential small claims suit but I'm really hoping not to.

Did you call paypal or file something through ebay?
 
I'm assuming its a brick. 6lbs? Gotta be. Really hoping its something interesting though.

Edit:
On second thought I just returned a nexus 10 and flip cover to the Google play store and that only weighed 3.3 lbs. Maybe he's sending me a couple tablets for my trouble :D

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chrisperro said:
yes paypal will side with the buyer and he will get an email saying to send the phone back, when you get the iPhone back he will get his money back.
But he can send you an old phone too then you have to open a case again ,hopefully it does not go that way.
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Chrisperro you have some clairvoyance!
 
PayPal also has a nasty habit of randomly holding the money until the receiver confirms everything is okay with the item. You can have a 100% clean account with no prior claims, but they still do this. Particularly on high value transactions. Too many people did the whole "low balance" thing.

And as the OP has experienced, they randomly take money out of your account without consent.

To the OP: Call your bank's fraud department. That is what PayPal did there. They cannot just take 26 times the money you gave them permission to do just because they felt like it. This wasn't with PayPal, but I had a company do that with me (cash and in person is my current life rule now). Wells Fargo reversed the charge and gave me new numbers so the company in question couldn't do it again.


Edit: Is there a way for you to blacklist the phone now? Since they made the claim, make it so.
 
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