Eero Mesh WiFi Products Now Available From Apple's Online Store

[VARTV]

You picked this up?

NETGEAR Orbi Whole Home Tri-band Mesh WiFi 6 System (RBK852) – Router with 1 Satellite Extender | Coverage up to 5,000 sq. ft., 100 Devices | AX6000 (Up to 6Gbps)

Orbi Wi-Fi 6 is a tri-band Wi-Fi System built with the latest and fastest Wi-Fi 6 technology to provide the ultimate smart home experience with Wi-Fi coverage and connection capacity beyond belief Keep all Wi-Fi connections strong in every room All the time with enough bandwidth for all your devi...

www.amazon.com

New from $1499.00 + Free Shipping. The free shipping made me howl.

Who has 50+ wifi devices in their home?

We do...

 

[dannynjoni]

Typical home Internet speeds are now far higher than what was available when the last Airport devices were sold. Mesh systems that are easy to configure without wires have taken over, giving far more seamless coverage in a typical home. If you were to do a basic investigation of actual wifi speeds you are getting from your AE around a typical house, you’d likely find that you have many areas where the connection speed is in the 10’s of Mb/sec, and even peak speeds may be in the low hundreds. As a result, while a your home Internet speed might be 400Mb or increasingly, even 1Gb, you can’t actually make use of even a fraction of that on old equipment.

Modern systems also deal with interference and multiple devices using large amounts of bandwidth much more efficiently.

Hey thanks. I wasn’t aware that my home network could benefit that much. The reason for my post is I’ve been a little suspicious that our WiFi might be outdated. I do know it’s old. It‘s just that it ”works fine”, but sometimes we just lose signal or things run really slow. I’m going to start looking for the best sensible upgrade. Just got the iPad 2020 with WiFi 6 so maybe something with that would be smart going forward.

 

[zhenya]

Hey thanks. I wasn’t aware that my home network could benefit that much. The reason for my post is I’ve been a little suspicious that our WiFi might be outdated. I do know it’s old. It‘s just that it ”works fine”, but sometimes we just lose signal or things run really slow. I’m going to start looking for the best sensible upgrade. Just got the iPad 2020 with WiFi 6 so maybe something with that would be smart going forward.

I would not bother with wifi 6 at this point for the reasons addressed above. While in theory it makes sense to future-proof, the reality is that prices are essentially double non-wifi 6 systems at this point, and you aren't likely to see any practical benefit for years. By the time you would, wifi 6 systems will have fallen in price AND mesh systems will have continued to improve.

What is your home Internet speed supposed to be?

There is an app for your iPhone, wifi sweet spots, that makes it super easy to walk around the house and see what kind of speed you are getting between device and router. That will help you isolate the problem and place new mesh points in the best locations.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Two more extreme edge cases. If you're that jacked in with every stupid electronic portable wifi enabled device you can buy you truly have a family of tech codependency.

The 128 node DHCP reminds me of someone who has Gaming Marathon parties. Grown ups who've well never grown up.

You sound jealous/envious. I'm sorry...

 

[jrath1]

Reading all of these comments I'm surprised not to see anyone using the TP-LINK Deco M9 AC2200. I've had this mesh network for several months will no issues and the mobile app is very apple like.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I, too, have the Linksys Velop Whole-Home Mesh Wi-Fi System (3-pack) and I'm still using it....


Things I hate:

• Lame set-up app on iPhone.

• On multiple occasions, Firmware updates have stealthily caused interruption of WiFi data transmission. There will be a strong WiFi signal but yet connectivity will remain borked until resetting the system.

• The indicator LED on the devices have the craziest non-intuitive colors/behaviors. There's red, blinking red, dark purplish-blue, blinking dark purplish blue, baby blue (did I miss any?).

• If Internet service is interrupted, e.g., issue with provider, loss of physical cable/fiber connection, power failure affecting router/modem/ONT (but not Velop primary node itself), or router/modem/ONT is deliberately reset or power cycled, it is extremely unlikely that WiFi will resume without manual intervention once the internet connectivity is reestablished. Typically, the manual intervention required is the power cycling of the primary node.

• With mesh systems there will always be some tradeoff between throughput and coverage. But that tradeoff should be pretty minimal with dedicated backhaul. With the Velop, it's pretty huge.

• Sometimes WiFi connectivity just stops for no apparent reason. Sometimes one node starts blinking red all of a sudden. Resetting the system via "Restart Velop" in app or web UI may not be enough to get things going again. It may require power cycling all nodes (starting with the primary) to get the system fully back in action. Once the primary node is up and running, the other nodes may take an inordinate amount of time to reestablish their own connectivity, going through one or more cycles of state transition with the aforementioned non-intuitive LED indicator colors changing along the way like some wacky Christmas lights.

• My userID for WAN-side management of the Velop system was quietly disabled due to the security breach at Linksys (that I was never informed of). So I chose to abandon usage of WAN-side administration and I changed the local admin password just to be safe. The Linksys app allows for connection locally, too, via the WLAN but when I entered my (new) local admin password, it wasn't accepted. Uhhh, what? Then I changed my local admin password again (in case that was being harvested by some app hack) and totally abandoned the Linksys app. The local admin password was accepted in the web UI without issue.

• Myself, for eventually clicking the "Place Order" button with my quivering, hesitant right pinkie.


Things I like:

• With the 3 nodes, I have mostly solid connectivity (albeit at reduced speeds to a varying degree) throughout the house and outside to every corner of my property. Translation of "mostly solid": about 1 random service interruption per month, requiring a power cycling of at least the primary node. Not to be confused with "solid" connectivity such as I'd experienced with my Apple AE and TC units (which absolutely never got interrupted except when I chose to install firmware updates). Of course I have all of my computer, storage, and networking equipment plugged into UPS units -- including all 3 of the Velop nodes -- which helps minimize the frequency of these WiFi issues.

• The nodes are tall enough to accommodate decent antennas but yet not large enough to be cumbersome or ugly.

Yeah, the lame app. It was showing the flaky node as still being connected and 'up' in spite of it being disconnected IN MY HAND. I checked the next day, and it was STILL THERE! I mean, wow. Stupid doesn't even come close... And they 'updated' it, and removed some of the features which was nice, NOT...

But having all the child nodes go down is a really needed feature. Everyone should experience that. It's such a joy and delight.

But, so many of the issues you mention, I had too.

Funny experience with their tech support. The light has to be BLINKING red, not SOLID red. Well, okay, what's the difference? (And I swear it was more pink than red, and the 'purple' wasn't really purple either) Isn't red red? 'Well, yes, but the light has to be blinking. Solid means something else.' I was confused, and I think they were too...

 

[John Lobert]

Strongly advise against Eero depending on your needs. After almost 2 years, I eBay'd my Eero system: 4 Eeros + 2 Beacons and bought the new Netgear Orbi RBK852 units (AX6000). The 2 Orbis are flawless in our home w/ 50+ devices. The Eeros required us to frequently toggle wifi off/on on many devices, and speeds were significantly inconsistent through our house. Additionally, certain HomeKit devices would be unresponsive -- this hasn't happened once in the 2 1/2 weeks since we made the switch. The Eeros can work well in certain situations, but if you have a lot of devices and/or a larger home, and/or speeds over 300-500 Mbps from your provider ... it might not work well for you. The wireless backhaul in the later Eeros is a welcome addition, but the beacons don't have this ... and the implementation in general isn't as good as other brands. I was a VERY loyal Eero customer early on and probably sold 5-10 systems by recommending to friends, many of whom are switching to the Orbi AX6000 which - again - are absolutely incredible. Max speed everywhere in the house, HomeKit devices working flawlessly, no device drops. Also, even with the wireless backhaul in later Eeros, still no Wifi 6 and no roadmap for when it might be available. The current Eero offerings are not very future-forward as they once were.

My experience was much like yours. These do NOT work if you have high-speed internet service.
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Reading all of these comments I'm surprised not to see anyone using the TP-LINK Deco M9 AC2200. I've had this mesh network for several months will no issues and the mobile app is very apple like.

This one balked for me because I had high-speed internet. Had to return it because it was so undependable.

 

[sixtydashone]

Amazon hasn't really messed with it too much with only one little hook to Alexa if you want it (I don't).

And that was actually there well before the Amazon acquisition.

 

[MB1]

Nah... I went with Ubiquiti (router/APs/switches) more than a year ago and have not been disappointed in the slightest. Rock solid.

Yup, the new “Dream Machine” is truly awesome

 

[A1MB1G]

I'm using the Netgear ORBI RK50 and the thing I dislike the most is that it doesn't allow you to separate out your 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands. Say what you will, but there are still a lot of IoT devices that do no play nice with 5Ghz. Being able to have granular control over which devices connect to which band would make my WiFi network way more reliable.

Instead, I have certain devices that keep dropping connection and reconnecting throughout the week, primarily IoT devices that are trying to get to the 5Ghz band.

If I were to do it all over, which I'm considering, I would go with any mesh system that still allows you control over separating the SSID for each band.

 

[MacBH928]

heads up, if you got Orbi RBK50 and you are not happy with its performance there is a custom firmware called Voxel you might want to give it a try, its the stock firmware but tweaked and optimized. But as with all free software, you are on your own if anything goes wrong.

Strongly advise against Eero depending on your needs. After almost 2 years, I eBay'd my Eero system: 4 Eeros + 2 Beacons and bought the new Netgear Orbi RBK852 units (AX6000). The 2 Orbis are flawless in our home w/ 50+ devices. The Eeros required us to frequently toggle wifi off/on on many devices, and speeds were significantly inconsistent through our house. Additionally, certain HomeKit devices would be unresponsive -- this hasn't happened once in the 2 1/2 weeks since we made the switch. The Eeros can work well in certain situations, but if you have a lot of devices and/or a larger home, and/or speeds over 300-500 Mbps from your provider ... it might not work well for you. The wireless backhaul in the later Eeros is a welcome addition, but the beacons don't have this ... and the implementation in general isn't as good as other brands. I was a VERY loyal Eero customer early on and probably sold 5-10 systems by recommending to friends, many of whom are switching to the Orbi AX6000 which - again - are absolutely incredible. Max speed everywhere in the house, HomeKit devices working flawlessly, no device drops. Also, even with the wireless backhaul in later Eeros, still no Wifi 6 and no roadmap for when it might be available. The current Eero offerings are not very future-forward as they once were.

Thanks for not letting me fall for the Eero hype, I am surprised the AX Orbi is working well with you, last I heard they released a flawed firmware that keeps disconnecting.Btw, if you are into "privacy" Netgear does not offer an OPT OUT option of data collection and telemetery. You might want to block it using Pihole or whatever method your prefer.

at this point, why would anyone buy a mesh system that isn't wifi 6?

Actually, its better not to opt for the Wifi 6 option. A working wifi 5 system is better than a flawed/disconnecting Wifi6. After extensive research I found that many mesh system do not work properly and have disconnecting and dropping issues, others suffer from no dedicated backhaul, aka speed will drop in half.

Wifi 6 is pretty new technology and many of the specs or technology has not been implemented yet, including OFDMA that has not been released yet. To gain advantage of Wifi 6, your clients too need to be Wifi6, so its better to wait until eventually you update most of your tech gear to Wifi6, by then Wifi6 routers will be more stable and bug free as with all new tech that gets released to the market.
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Yup, the new “Dream Machine” is truly awesome

The problem is they have to be wired, not an option for everyone. I wish they had dedicated wireless backhaul like Orbis, I would definitely switch. I never heard any one complain from Unifi, everyone is happy.

 

[brentsg]

• On multiple occasions, Firmware updates have stealthily caused interruption of WiFi data transmission. There will be a strong WiFi signal but yet connectivity will remain borked until resetting the system.

• If Internet service is interrupted, e.g., issue with provider, loss of physical cable/fiber connection, power failure affecting router/modem/ONT (but not Velop primary node itself), or router/modem/ONT is deliberately reset or power cycled, it is extremely unlikely that WiFi will resume without manual intervention once the internet connectivity is reestablished. Typically, the manual intervention required is the power cycling of the primary node.

• With mesh systems there will always be some tradeoff between throughput and coverage. But that tradeoff should be pretty minimal with dedicated backhaul. With the Velop, it's pretty huge.

• Sometimes WiFi connectivity just stops for no apparent reason. Sometimes one node starts blinking red all of a sudden. Resetting the system via "Restart Velop" in app or web UI may not be enough to get things going again. It may require power cycling all nodes (starting with the primary) to get the system fully back in action. Once the primary node is up and running, the other nodes may take an inordinate amount of time to reestablish their own connectivity, going through one or more cycles of state transition with the aforementioned non-intuitive LED indicator colors changing along the way like some wacky Christmas lights.

Two disclaimers: 1) I'm using the AC version of the Velop 3 pack and 2) I'm using my Velop system in bridge mode with a Sophos XG firewall.

Interesting to read this.. The contrast between our experiences underlines how WiFi behavior can differ by environment. Perhaps my experience differs because I'm using them as access points only.

I've never had a firmware update interrupt performance. In fact I can't say I've ever noticed when a firmware update took place.

I have a product that monitors my WAN connection 24x7 and it will identify when I have a loss of connectivity, or alternatively ping in excess of 200ms. This stuff happens all the time unfortunately, but the WiFi is never affected. In fact after a period of downtime my router will fail over to a redundant WAN connection from a different ISP without issue.

Regarding performance, I tested 6 or so different products in my home. I mapped out 20 or so spots in the home where WiFi is commonly used and while running software in a docker on my NAS, measured throughput in each direction along with packet loss. I performed the testing multiple times per location/product and did a sort of heat map. I also tested each location while challenging the network by streaming to devices commonly in use. The Velop was far and away the best performer.

I do occasionally have the red blinking node but it's maybe a few times per year. Normally I just power cycle that node but occasionally I'll reboot the system from my phone out of laziness. It hasn't been something that occurs often enough to get on my radar.

Just wanted to push this out there to underscore how these products can very much be YMMV. I'm not a Linksys or Velop fanboy by any means, it's just worked well. The early tests for the WiFi 6 version don't look great though so I'll probably be going in a different direction when I replace it. I doubt I'll go thru the testing again.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Two disclaimers: 1) I'm using the AC version of the Velop 3 pack and 2) I'm using my Velop system in bridge mode with a Sophos XG firewall.

Interesting to read this.. The contrast between our experiences underlines how WiFi behavior can differ by environment. Perhaps my experience differs because I'm using them as access points only.

I've never had a firmware update interrupt performance. In fact I can't say I've ever noticed when a firmware update took place.

I have a product that monitors my WAN connection 24x7 and it will identify when I have a loss of connectivity, or alternatively ping in excess of 200ms. This stuff happens all the time unfortunately, but the WiFi is never affected. In fact after a period of downtime my router will fail over to a redundant WAN connection from a different ISP without issue.

Regarding performance, I tested 6 or so different products in my home. I mapped out 20 or so spots in the home where WiFi is commonly used and while running software in a docker on my NAS, measured throughput in each direction along with packet loss. I performed the testing multiple times per location/product and did a sort of heat map. I also tested each location while challenging the network by streaming to devices commonly in use. The Velop was far and away the best performer.

I do occasionally have the red blinking node but it's maybe a few times per year. Normally I just power cycle that node but occasionally I'll reboot the system from my phone out of laziness. It hasn't been something that occurs often enough to get on my radar.

Just wanted to push this out there to underscore how these products can very much be YMMV. I'm not a Linksys or Velop fanboy by any means, it's just worked well. The early tests for the WiFi 6 version don't look great though so I'll probably be going in a different direction when I replace it. I doubt I'll go thru the testing again.

I had the units in 'Bridge Mode'. Apparently they really don't like that setting? I haven't touched the (trash) things. Trying to decide how bad I want to keep them. I could ebay them, or donate them to to Goodwill. Let someone else futz with them. (Good riddance?) *sigh*

 

[brentsg]

I had the units in 'Bridge Mode'. Apparently they really don't like that setting? I haven't touched the (trash) things. Trying to decide how bad I want to keep them. I could ebay them, or donate them to to Goodwill. Let someone else futz with them. (Good riddance?) *sigh*

Mine have been in bridge mode since day 1 with basically no issues. Weird.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Mine have been in bridge mode since day 1 with basically no issues. Weird.

No kidding. The warnings are kind of overplayed. I have to do bridge mode to access printers and servers here. I was beginning to wonder if bridge mode, or some 'price to pay' for using it, was the root of my issues.

I'll try hooking all of them to a wired connection, but if I have to do that to get them to work, I should have just stayed with the Airport Extremes. DOH!

 

[Osxguy]

Tbh plume wifi is soooo much better. I set these up for a client and they stopped working a week later. No customer service and when I get a human it’s blah blah. But at home I have the plume mesh they are outta Palo Alto. Boom, working, a fan went out and they actually knew before I called and offered to have a new one sent out. Fast gig speeds all around my home... I have gig internet with Comcast. I speed test and always at about a gig ...

 

[An-apple-a-day]

I had the units in 'Bridge Mode'. Apparently they really don't like that setting? I haven't touched the (trash) things. Trying to decide how bad I want to keep them. I could ebay them, or donate them to to Goodwill. Let someone else futz with them. (Good riddance?) *sigh*

My set is an AC (6600, I think) in bridge mode, too, connected to my router/ONT (fiber connection at 1Gbps up/down). And I suffer from all of the issues identified in my earlier post.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My set is an AC (6600, I think) in bridge mode, too, connected to my router/ONT (fiber connection at 1Gbps up/down). And I suffer from all of the issues identified in my earlier post.

So it's just a crap product. And Apple is pushing people to use it. Why?

My company was a Cisco authorized reseller. I went to a conference where Cisco management were making presentations. The CEO, as I remember, said that 'we need to be in every area of the industry that our customers will be looking for products. If we aren't in an area, and we push customers to other vendors, we are losing their money, and enforcing the idea that we aren't their best source. We are pushing them to make choices on competitors products, and could end up losing their business for future needs.' I thought that was astounding, and right on many levels.

Apple *should* have a robust wifi system! Their Airport system was awesome! It supported their software so well, and It. Just. Worked!

And the Airport Express was STELLAR!!! How many technicians had one of them in their bag of tricks. I had nearly a dozen of the different models. The last one was their best!

They are pushing people away. It was a poorly thought out decision. If the product sucked, I could see dropping it, but it DID NOT SUCK! It didn't deserve to die...

/rant

 

[noone]

Tbh plume wifi is soooo much better. I set these up for a client and they stopped working a week later. No customer service and when I get a human it’s blah blah. But at home I have the plume mesh they are outta Palo Alto. Boom, working, a fan went out and they actually knew before I called and offered to have a new one sent out. Fast gig speeds all around my home... I have gig internet with Comcast. I speed test and always at about a gig ...

The fact that they require a subscription puts that completely out of the running for me. I already pay for the internet. I'm not adding a subscription on top of that to make it wireless.

 

[blackdogaudio]

The fact that they require a subscription puts that completely out of the running for me. I already pay for the internet. I'm not adding a subscription on top of that to make it wireless.

Their subscription services (eero Secure and Secure +) are optional and not required for connectivity or security. They simply provide an extra measure of security for all of your connected devices. I don't use their services on my eero mesh for example.

 

[An-apple-a-day]

Over the years, so many friends and coworkers commented negatively on my "wimpy", "all looks but no substance" AEs (and, later, TCs). You see, theirs were the "cool" Netgear or Asus (or whatever) wireless routers with multiple exposed antennas that looked like legs on a giant dead bug. First it was 2 legs, then 4, then 6, then 8.... And theirs had ooooh so many settings to tweak.

But snide remarks like "see, mine gets 11 more Mb/s than yours when I'm 60' away" and "ha, my coverage is better than yours in the garage" were eventually followed by multiple occurrences of "hmm, hold on a sec, there's some glitch, lemme reboot the router" and "it must be one of the myriad of settings I tweaked -- settings you don't even have -- [struggles for 15 minutes and ends up quietly power cycling the router]." Meanwhile, my WiFi had remained absolutely stable with near-zero downtime, with the only exceptions being power failures (no UPS yet) and planned firmware updates.

For now, I will live with my Linksys Velop problem child because I paid quite a bit for the setup and it does usually work (and I've grown rather adept at doing the Velop resurrection ritual). But I will definitely be looking out for a WiFi 6 mesh setup to replace it -- once there are worthy offerings available at a fair price, and that might still be a year away.

Does anybody out there remember the original flying saucer AirPort? I remember buying a PowerBook and one of those way back when. I was geeky enough to not be too worried about how to set it up, yet I did wonder what hoops I'd have to jump through to get the Wifi network up and running. I recall opening the PowerBook, selecting my language (initial setup), powering on the flying saucer, inputting a Wifi password, and... whaaaaat the... WiFi was up and running. Had to go into settings afterwards to tighten the security a bit further but, still, that was a classic realization of Steve's "delight the user" mentality. I would love to be delighted by a mesh WiFi system.

 

[blackdogaudio]

Over the years, so many friends and coworkers commented negatively on my "wimpy", "all looks but no substance" AEs (and, later, TCs). You see, theirs were the "cool" Netgear or Asus (or whatever) wireless routers with multiple exposed antennas that looked like legs on a giant dead bug. First it was 2 legs, then 4, then 6, then 8.... And theirs had ooooh so many settings to tweak.

But snide remarks like "see, mine gets 11 more Mb/s than yours when I'm 60' away" and "ha, my coverage is better than yours in the garage" were eventually followed by multiple occurrences of "hmm, hold on a sec, there's some glitch, lemme reboot the router" and "it must be one of the myriad of settings I tweaked -- settings you don't even have -- [struggles for 15 minutes and ends up quietly power cycling the router]." Meanwhile, my WiFi had remained absolutely stable with near-zero downtime, with the only exceptions being power failures (no UPS yet) and planned firmware updates.

For now, I will live with my Linksys Velop problem child because I paid quite a bit for the setup and it does usually work (and I've grown rather adept at doing the Velop resurrection ritual). But I will definitely be looking out for a WiFi 6 mesh setup to replace it -- once there are worthy offerings available at a fair price, and that might still be a year away.

Does anybody out there remember the original flying saucer AirPort? I remember buying a PowerBook and one of those way back when. I was geeky enough to not be too worried about how to set it up, yet I did wonder what hoops I'd have to jump through to get the Wifi network up and running. I recall opening the PowerBook, selecting my language (initial setup), powering on the flying saucer, inputting a Wifi password, and... whaaaaat the... WiFi was up and running. Had to go into settings afterwards to tighten the security a bit further but, still, that was a classic realization of Steve's "delight the user" mentality. I would love to be delighted by a mesh WiFi system.

Sounds all to familiar to me. I think you'd like eero. It's not the fastest mesh on the block but it outperformed my Velop 6600 tri-pack system and Amplifi HD system from a speed and reliability standpoint. Airplay actually worked all of the time for a change as well.

 

[ChromeAce]

Eeros suck. And now they’re owned by Amazon, a vital fact that somehow seemed to escape Juli Clover.

 

[An-apple-a-day]

Does Netgear Orbi RBK853 AX6000 support bridged mode and does it really work well in that mode?
I don't have any WiFi 6 capable devices yet, but I can still see a benefit to having the nodes be able to intercommunicate with each other via the more robust, potentially faster wireless backhaul.

I still feel that WiFi 6 is not ready for primetime, though, and I will probably wait it out and suffer with my Velop until next year.

 

[TTTedP]

Still wish Apple would see the potential of Apple TV serving as a mesh WiFi router. Throw an ethernet port on the back of the next HomePod and that'd also have potential as a router.

Both appliances have the processing power to additionally serve as routers. Any smaller, always-on device like a HomePod Mini or reimagined AirPort Express could potentially serve as a mesh WiFi beacon.

this. You want your AP's out, not tucked in a corner.