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What did they do? They got greedy, the bred a legion of sycophants, and generally behaved like bullies.

The DA has better things to do that pursue some nonsense like this and most likely it would not have pursued it so aggressively (kicking down the door) if not for the political pressure brought by Apple. You can bet your arse Apple's legal team is in contact with the DA.

I will in turn ask you...what did Apple do to engender your absolute loyalty? And dont dare try that "it's not about Apple"....you cant pretend to be simply a champion of good and justice...your bias is clear.

My bias is clear.... That's a new one. I own more Windows based products than I do Apple products. Hmm, where do my loyalties lie, to my family and my country that's it.

You shouldn't jump to conclusions. You can even go back to my postings dealing with the <insert whomever> vs Apple vs <insert whomever> lawsuits, I always state that if Apple owes money to the patent holder they should pay.

So yeah, my loyalties again, what were you getting at again?

Now, back on topic:
The DA is pursuing charges based on what a specific anti-crime program, i.e. this type of case is their sole reason for existence, decided a crime had been committed and they should investigate the matter further. Our taxes are paying them either way, they might was well work.

Gee, they kicked in the door because the had... gasp a search warrant. The Search warrant, which by the way was signed by a judge, gave them a reason to enter the location listed on the warrant. They kicked in the door because no one was home to open the door.

Next time the police have a search warrant for your home, stand outside and tell them you won't unlock the door - they'll still kick it in or you can unlock it and save on the door repairs.

Apple's legal team may be "involved" but only to advise on Trade Secret violation issues. Gray would have been the original complainant, so they would confer with Gray first.

So I ask you why are you sticking up for people that broke the law?

What if I came by your house, noticed your car was in the street and decided you "abandoned" it since it's not in your garage or your driveway? Would you be ok if I took it, called the manufacturer asking if they want it back and then selling it when they say it's not theirs? Would you not be upset and expect the police to apprehend the person whom "found" your car?

I know the above is a stretch, just trying to prove a point.
 
Either way, I think Apple come off looking bad guys. Firstly, one of THEIR employees loses a prototype device. Yes, Gizmodo paid for and pulled the device apart online for everyone to see, but they complied with Apples written request for return (what was the time delay between first reveal online and the letter?). Now Apple are happy to sit quietly in the deep background, looking like the Dark Lords themselves, Microsoft allowing seizures of equipment, threats of criminal procedings, etc. Looks like other people are going to suffer for the extreme paranoia coming top down at Apple.

Sorry, I like their kit, but the corporate mentality that seems to exist there now doesn't bear any resemblance to the two young maverick phone freakers of the 70's that created Apple :(

Apple are the ones who come out of this looking bad, having had the largest amount of free pre-publicity for the new iPhone they could have hoped for!

:(
 
Its a phone not the gift from the gods.

Ok the phone was bought from some one who found it in a bar so called. Efforts were made to return the phone. Some gadget site pays $5 grand for the scoop. It has backfired on them now not only is an engineering in the frying pan but also a well known website. Now begs the question would Arn do something similar if the chance came up. Only arn can answer this of course. Guess its going to be in the courts for a little while everyone will flap and scream and shout and then the real release of this phone that is well several years behind as far as gear is concerned. Ie so called front facing camera mulit tasking. I am not saying the phone is not good hell used one and i like it over my Nokia but come on its just a mobile phone.
 
Ok the phone was bought from some one who found it in a bar so called. Efforts were made to return the phone. Some gadget site pays $5 grand for the scoop. It has backfired on them now not only is an engineering in the frying pan but also a well known website. Now begs the question would Arn do something similar if the chance came up. Only arn can answer this of course. Guess its going to be in the courts for a little while everyone will flap and scream and shout and then the real release of this phone that is well several years behind as far as gear is concerned. Ie so called front facing camera mulit tasking. I am not saying the phone is not good hell used one and i like it over my Nokia but come on its just a mobile phone.

if I remember correctly, Arn did get a call or two from apple legal back in the day, when original iMac g4 (lamp) introduced and Arn took the offending materials off. There is a reason why Engadget refuse to pay for this item, it is a stolen property (as per the law).
 
The finder called Apple support. Hardly an attempt at contact and who knows if it is true since it is coming from Gizmodo. If it is true, Apple know who the finder is unless the finder didn't leave any contact information, in which case there was no reasonable effort.

I don't know if Gizmodo contacted Apple first.

I've been wondering about that. Supposedly he was given a service ticket number, I bet Apple has been reviewing every ticket issued in the time between the phone was lost and recovered. If they find that there isn't one, or that the person gave a fake name or phone number, then there is proof that the "finder" never intended to return the phone.
 
I've been wondering about that. Supposedly he was given a service ticket number, I bet Apple has been reviewing every ticket issued in the time between the phone was lost and recovered. If they find that there isn't one, or that the person gave a fake name or phone number, then there is proof that the "finder" never intended to return the phone.

The proof is in the "pudding" as they say. According to the law you have to do more than just make one phone call to try to reach the owner of the property.
 
Like theft and defamation?

The phone was LOST, not stolen from the person. The person who found it called Apple and asked about it. Usually if you steal something from a company, you don't call them to ask if they had lsot it.

This raid was just Apple flexing their muscles and sending a message to anyone who dares cross them. Before, it was done with civl claims; but Apple has moved up and now do it with LEO carrying guns and door knockers. Apple to all journalist: Get in our way, and we will have our armed friends come visit you and trump up some charges for a felony.

This is the New Apple. :mad:

The proof is in the "pudding" as they say. According to the law you have to do more than just make one phone call to try to reach the owner of the property.

He did, he asked around the bar the night he found it asking if anyone had lost it.
 
He did, he asked around the bar the night he found it asking if anyone had lost it.

That still is not enough according to California law. You like to skip over all the posts that state clearly:

In California if you find property that is valued at $100 or more and you cannot locate the owner it MUST be turned over to a law enforcement agency for a period of time. If you fail to take the aforemetioned steps and you sell said property then you are guilty of theft.
 
This raid was just Apple flexing their muscles and sending a message to anyone who dares cross them. Before, it was done with civl claims; but Apple has moved up and now do it with LEO carrying guns and door knockers. Apple to all journalist: Get in our way, and we will have our armed friends come visit you and trump up some charges for a felony.

This is the New Apple. :mad:

If you really believe this you should change your name to Full of Fail.

Oh wait, I just noticed your avatar...welcome to the ignore list.
 
The phone was LOST, not stolen from the person. The person who found it called Apple and asked about it. Usually if you steal something from a company, you don't call them to ask if they had lsot it.

This raid was just Apple flexing their muscles and sending a message to anyone who dares cross them. Before, it was done with civl claims; but Apple has moved up and now do it with LEO carrying guns and door knockers. Apple to all journalist: Get in our way, and we will have our armed friends come visit you and trump up some charges for a felony.

This is the New Apple. :mad:

does anyone of you work for any big company? Most companies have policy to report any misplaced company-owned property to the police. Its a standard policy, if you don't report it, you will be fired. So the employee who lost for the reported it as per the policy. Then it is up to the DA to investigate. Stop blaming apple for this, this is standard practice with any company.
 
It was receipt of stolen goods. Under California law, the prototype phone is considered stolen once it was sold.


There was not a reasonable attempt to return the goods and the Finder sold it.

You may not like it, but that's the law. Buying stolen property is a criminal act.

There is the matter of proving Gizmodo knew it was stolen, to establish intent, but thanks to their writing on the subject, that is trivial to do.
Proving they knew it was genuine before purchase will be what makes the case.


They can't pretend they don't know who a prototype iPhone belongs to, especially when they write about this stuff for a living.
Heck, Gizmodo writers could be expert witnesses at this trial. What they were ignorant of is California law, and it's biting them hard.


The phone was lost. The phone was found. The phone was sold.
Since it had a certain logo on the back, it was clear whose phone it was.
Since it wasn't a shipping model, it was really clear whose phone it was. And that sale was a crime.


The Finder supposedly called AppleCare. This was disingenous at best. And will be viewed as insufficient by the court.

Gizmodo/Gawker will try to argue and they must convince the jury that they thought it was a counterfeit (one they were eager to pay $5000 for).
Otherwise they have screwed themselves by bragging how much they paid for it.




This isn't about journalism.

Shield laws have to do with (journalistic) sources -- not stolen goods.


If this is all to get the person who found the phone, then they might have a point.


But buying the phone was a criminal act.

And being a journalist is irrelevant.

The Finder is not going to be charged due to this warrant, whoever cut the check at Gizmodo is.

I will sidestep the whole "are bloggers journalists?" angle because it does not matter.

It is becoming increasingly common, troublingly so, for people to equate journalists with some protected class.

This is a horrible bastardization of the concept of free speech.

Free speech belongs to everyone. Shield laws and blogger/journalist debates obscure that real issue.

Because they knew, and were likely advised by counsel, that refusing to return it could result in prosecution. Apparently, this was not enough to prevent that.


Apple will probably pursue civil action as well, but as this is a criminal matter, take it up with the local authorities, not Apple.

Apple has a duty to their shareholders, a legal duty, to protect the value of their IP.

Refusing to cooperate with the police could be considered a breach of fiduciary duty.


Exactly. Nice summary.
 
Agreed. Amazing that people are having such a hard time understanding this.

Yeah, I guess any tween can start up a website, call himself a journalist, and cry "Shield Law!" to protect himself from his own idiocy. :rolleyes:

I hope this goes to court. Should make for some real entertainment - and education.

Yeah. Over the years I have been annoyed with some of Gizmodo's media/content which at times show "tasteless", "obscene" and "fleshy" materials and some "course language" on the headings of articles. Both Jason Chen and Jesus Diaz have done this repeatedly. I don't see any disclaimers on the site or a main portal displaying "This Website contains course language and images of a mature nature including partial nudity. If you are below the age of 18 or easily offended, then please leave". I'm just noting this as there are a lot of minors visiting the site. If Gizmodo / Gawker Media thinks they are a "journalistic" site employing "journalists", then both the site (Gizmodo) and some of its editors (especially the one in question) have not duly followed the principles of Journalistic codes of ethics.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Gizmodo does not provide journalism. It is a tech "blog" run by bloggers and any form of codes of ethics don't seem to apply here. Even their link to legal says, "Gawker Media sites typically display images, audio, and video (the "Material") as part of blog posts written by our editors. To be protected under the "Shield Law" for blogs / bloggers is going to be tough.
 
That still is not enough according to California law. You like to skip over all the posts that state clearly:

In California if you find property that is valued at $100 or more and you cannot locate the owner it MUST be turned over to a law enforcement agency for a period of time. If you fail to take the aforemetioned steps and you sell said property then you are guilty of theft.

How can you know it was valued at 100$? It was never put at retail, and therefore could never have an MSRP.
 
How can you know it was valued at 100$? It was never put at retail, and therefore could never have an MSRP.

For one they paid $5k.

Next it is a prototype, it will encompass all R&D costs in it's "value." That's how it works. Its value can easily exceed several million dollars.

Let's simply look at the current iPhones then...

The 8GB 3G is retail of $399, I'm pretty sure that is higher than $100 dollars. Next let's look at the 3GS, wait they're more expensive? So SURELY the new iPhone, even it's consumer level MSRP, will far exceed $100.
 
How can the government, Judges, and police officers not have a clear understanding on whether the action they are about to take in unlawful or not??:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
The phone was LOST, not stolen from the person. The person who found it called Apple and asked about it. Usually if you steal something from a company, you don't call them to ask if they had lsot it.

Rubbish. Are you a simpleton to believe such nonsense? You merely repeat the feeble lies of the thieves themselves. Should the police believe every pickpocket when they say they just happened to find the wallets in their possession on the floor, and that they were trying to return them when they were caught?
And if the wretched cur at Gizmodo, after returning the actual device, still had illegal possession of industrial secrets on his computer in the form of photos or other key data, that he intended to use for gain, then he should be jailed.
 
We're talking about a freaking CELL PHONE here people! HELLO!
Hello!? Hello!? Can you hear me now?


But what if the police tried to contact Chen at his cousin's house and his cousin didn't know what they were talking about? Surely, that would reasonably mean it'll be okay for them to take whatever is his and do whatever they like with it when he's not around? Even legally sell Chen's computer to Engadget for $5,000. According to pro-Gizmodo posts in the other thread at any rate. ;)
:D By far the funniest post yet! ^


Apparently Gizmodo consulted their Brit lawyer, where the law is very different, because the British haven't invented anything since the tea cosy.
:) Another good line. ^ (though, perhaps Jonathan Ive might be an exception. ;) )



The phone was LOST, not stolen from the person. The person who found it called Apple and asked about it. Usually if you steal something from a company, you don't call them to ask if they had lsot it.
The instant the (alleged) "finder" left the restaurant/bar with the item in his possession, it became a theft. The right thing to do would have been to leave the phone with the manager there. PERIOD. Those excuses you so eagerly provide fail to justify anything that happened, but merely illustrate your own character. [nuff said.]


This raid was just Apple flexing their muscles and sending a message to anyone who dares cross them. Before, it was done with civl claims; but Apple has moved up and now do it with LEO carrying guns and door knockers. Apple to all journalist: Get in our way, and we will have our armed friends come visit you and trump up some charges for a felony.

This is the New Apple. :mad:
Good segue. [a quick fade from poor judgement right into the realm of full-blown dementia.]

More satire from the Joker? [it's pretty laughable, whether intended as such or not. :p ]
 
The instant the (alleged) "finder" left the restaurant/bar with the item in his possession, it became a theft. The right thing to do would have been to leave the phone with the manager there. PERIOD. Those excuses you so eagerly provide fail to justify anything that happened, but merely illustrate your own character. [nuff said.]


The only part I disagree with you on this is, the moment he sold it - it became theft. He could leave the bar to drop it off at a local police station.
 
He could leave the bar to drop it off at a local police station.

More drivel. If he wanted to get it back to the owner he would have asked the patrons or bar staff if it belonged to anyone and handed it in so that the owner, if he had in fact left the premises, could collect it immediately he realized the loss.
Instead, the thief spirited it away.
He most likely stole it eagerly while the owner's back was turned for a split second, and made his escape as soon as possible. We'll probably learn soon that the villain has plenty of prior experience in this field.
 
Let's see:

Gizmodo did do wrong here; they bought a hot iphone 4g from a guy who *says* Gray Powell left it in a bar.

Regardless, even if Gray Powell left it in a bar, it becomes theft when that person decides to sell it to the highest bidder.

Engadget was also offered the iphone and passed on it - from advice by their legal council.

The guy who pocketed it didn't file a police report, and didn't leave it with the bar owner. Instead, he claims he made a token gesture to return it.

Why not leave it at an apple store?

Gizmodo leaves the realm of journalism, when they pay $5000 to buy the iphone. Anyone in their right mind would go, "i'm buying a prototype iphone 4g, violating every NDA. Where did it come from?" - d'oh!

When apple asked for it, gizmodo didn't happily return it. They would only return it if apple's request for it was "on the record".

i don't see what gizmodo did wrong, they didnt steal anything.

-apple LOST thier iphone
don't forget that it was an apple employee who left it in a bar.

-the guy who found it TRIED to return it
he called in and the company bassically blew him off.

-GIZMODO is absolutly journalism.
you can't get upset that he posted this, his job is to post tech rumors. hell even MACRUMORS is considered journalism

-and not to forget, when apple asked for thier **** back, GIZMODO happily returned it.

-------------------------------------
from what i see GIZMODO isnt the bad guy. APPLEINSIDER, ENGADGET, MACRUMORS ETC. post LEAKED product pictures all the time.

they didnt break the law
they didnt steal
and they didn't lie.

apple is blaming the journalist for doing his JOB. INSTEAD of blaming the employed who f'd up and lost it.

thats seems kind of backwords dont you think.

------------------
i'm a apple lover like the rest of you, but this just seems wrong and unfair.

shame on you apple.
 
Ok the phone was bought from some one who found it in a bar so called. Efforts were made to return the phone. Some gadget site pays $5 grand for the scoop. It has backfired on them now not only is an engineering in the frying pan but also a well known website. Now begs the question would Arn do something similar if the chance came up. Only arn can answer this of course. Guess its going to be in the courts for a little while everyone will flap and scream and shout and then the real release of this phone that is well several years behind as far as gear is concerned. Ie so called front facing camera mulit tasking. I am not saying the phone is not good hell used one and i like it over my Nokia but come on its just a mobile phone.

Show me the evidence that "efforts were made to return the phone". You can't, there's NO EVIDENCE. All you have is the story that Gizmodo presented and even they admit their story is based upon the comments of someone else. Gizmodo has presented no proof that efforts were made to return phone. All Gizmodo has presented is a story.

Show me the evidence that "an engineer(ing) is in the frying pan". You can't, there's NO EVIDENCE of that fact. The phone went missing on March 18 (if you believe Gizmodo's story), yet, the engineer still has a job at Apple (again, according to Gizmodo).

Hey... maybe the engineer isn't in trouble because HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG! Maybe he didn't "lose" the iPhone. Maybe he was relieved of the phone without his knowledge.

I think the fact that the engineer is still employed at Apple (after more than a month since the iPhone went missing) speaks volumes.

And I also believe that engineer has a legitimate civil case against Gizmodo for violating his constitutional right to privacy. But that's another topic.

Mark
 
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