Either Intel pushing Apple drop FW, or someone a MORON!

PracticalMac

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 22, 2009
2,745
3,710
Houston, TX
After all the firestorm when they dropped FB for the uniMB, Apple does it again.

There is no doubt Apple continued the PolyMB to satisfy those who needed FW (why else keep it when the uniMB was release?)

Then they upgraded the Poly, and put FW800 into the UniMB, now 13"MPB

Sales of Apple laptops GREW STRONGLY since the 13"MBP was introduced (I cannot find that telling graph :( ).

And now they take it out again.

It must be Intel trying to get Apple to dump its competing FireWire, because I cannot believe Apple is that mindless.

(no graph, but...)
CNET reported in mid 2009, just after the new 13" MBP with FW was introduced was in short supply.
July 7, 2009 11:07 AM PDT
Either because Apple didn't plan well enough, or customers were encouraged by the price, Apple's Web site shows that it's now a 7- to 10-day delay to order one of the 13-inch MacBook Pro configurations.

"We track product lead-times and our records show that Apple has never had a 7-10 day delay on its most popular 13" model, with the most recent significant delay being 5-7 days over 2 years ago in 9/08," Munster wrote in a research note Monday evening. "We see this as a sign that demand is outpacing the company's build expectations, and it may take several weeks to reach a supply demand equilibrium."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10281042-37.html


Clearly, FireWire is a big selling point in the Mac community.
 

Primejimbo

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2008
3,294
129
Around
Macbooks were always the "consumer" line and the Macbook Pro's are the "professional" line. The Firewire is probably the main difference between the 2 lines. If you want firewire, get the 13 inch pro. How many threads are we going to have on this again? :rolleyes:
 

Eric S.

macrumors 68040
Feb 1, 2008
3,598
0
Santa Cruz Mountains, California
Macbooks were always the "consumer" line and the Macbook Pro's are the "professional" line. The Firewire is probably the main difference between the 2 lines. If you want firewire, get the 13 inch pro. How many threads are we going to have on this again? :rolleyes:
Um, enough to realize that a <$30 part is a silly differentiator between "consumer" and "pro" lines? :rolleyes: (And that Apple simply wants to move a percentage of its customer base to higher margin products?)
 

acurafan

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2008
615
0
ok, here we go again with the elitist 'pro' camp coming out of the woodwork...someone got jealous on another thread b/c the new MB had a higher hdd then the base MBP.

apple, if you're going to take away FW, at least add another USB port.
 

CPD_1

macrumors 6502
Nov 17, 2007
283
1
South East Texas
I'm with the guy above me. The thing is, consumer devices have almost entirely dropped FW over the last couple of years. You can still find HDD's and some camcorders in the mid to high range, but otherwise, you're looking at USB. Devices that still commonly use FW are not targeted at your average Joe.

Would I ever consider buying a laptop that doesn't have FireWire? Not until I upgrade my gear. However, I make a lot of money using FireWire, and the devices I buy that need it cost me quite a bit. The applications that I use those devices in conjunction with would be less then satisfying on the Polycarbonate MacBook.

In Apple's history, consumer level products (traditionally) lead the way in dropping ports, while professional level devices often lead the way in adding features. If most consumer level products lack FireWire, it is no stretch for Apple to drop it in their consumer notebook.

I can understand your frustration, but realize, Apple did this with the serial port, floppy drives, and ps/2 connectors. It's bound to happen at some point.


EDIT: This is the quote I was agreeing with... I just spent more time typing then the other guys.

Macbooks were always the "consumer" line and the Macbook Pro's are the "professional" line. The Firewire is probably the main difference between the 2 lines. If you want firewire, get the 13 inch pro. How many threads are we going to have on this again?
 

John585

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2008
76
0
They could have just left in the FW 400 but then how much different would that be compared to USB 2
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
if anything this move should just clarify that apple wants FW for the pro models and not the low end.

"They could have just left in the FW 400 but then how much different would that be compared to USB 2"

Why would apple want to still have to pay for those components when they are only used in one device? That doesn't make much sense when trying to streamline your manufacturing process as apple always is doing.
 

Primejimbo

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2008
3,294
129
Around
Um, enough to realize that a <$30 part is a silly differentiator between "consumer" and "pro" lines? :rolleyes: (And that Apple simply wants to move a percentage of its customer base to higher margin products?)
That's not the only difference :rolleyes:

I'm with the guy above me. The thing is, consumer devices have almost entirely dropped FW over the last couple of years. You can still find HDD's and some camcorders in the mid to high range, but otherwise, you're looking at USB. Devices that still commonly use FW are not targeted at your average Joe.

Would I ever consider buying a laptop that doesn't have FireWire? Not until I upgrade my gear. However, I make a lot of money using FireWire, and the devices I buy that need it cost me quite a bit. The applications that I use those devices in conjunction with would be less then satisfying on the Polycarbonate MacBook.

In Apple's history, consumer level products (traditionally) lead the way in dropping ports, while professional level devices often lead the way in adding features. If most consumer level products lack FireWire, it is no stretch for Apple to drop it in their consumer notebook.

I can understand your frustration, but realize, Apple did this with the serial port, floppy drives, and ps/2 connectors. It's bound to happen at some point.


EDIT: This is the quote I was agreeing with... I just spent more time typing then the other guys.
I agree. so did people complain like this when the floppy drives were dropped?
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors 604
May 28, 2005
7,984
533
Pennsylvania
yeah, but there's no reason that I should be forced to spend $300 for a new camcorder or $200 for a Macbook Pro. It just aggrivates me that there's no eSata ports, they're dropping firewire, it's like Apple wants us to use wireless or USB or nothing.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense when a lot of low-end camcorders use FW, as well as a large amount of external HDD's.
Sure it does, you want to use them AND have a mac, spend some more cash. Makes plenty of sense seeing as for your average consumer FW is not a deal-breaker (assuming they even know what the hell it is).

I'm not saying its good for consumers, but i highly doubt its going to hurt apple significantly at all.


On that note, does anyone know where I can get a cheap 2.5" SATA enclosure that uses just FW800? Incredibly hard to find even with google :eek: I'd be willing to get one that does usb also, but id prefer just FW.


Edit: and to the eSata people, I've always viewed it as the awkward transitional connection just holding on until others finally come to the market.
 

ziggyonice

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2006
2,385
1
Rural America
Working for a university, I can tell you that almost 95% of the people who have MacBooks don't even know what FireWire is. The only people who do (or use it) are the geeks. Like us, here on this site. That's the reason why Apple left FireWire to the MacBook Pros. Because the people who need FireWire are the same people who would get a Pro.
 

CPD_1

macrumors 6502
Nov 17, 2007
283
1
South East Texas
Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense when a lot of low-end camcorders use FW,
Maybe in the past, but today, most consumer level camcorders are using solid state memory. In the past, nearly every camcorder used FW, but USB is quickly passing it up.

as well as a large amount of external HDD's.
I think "large" amount is stretching it some. I spent thirty minutes in a major consumer electronics chain the other day, and I found four external HDDs that used FW. This compared to a couple hundred USB and eSATA varieties. FW drives may offer you a superior experience; the argument of ubiquity lies in favor of USB.

EDIT:
I agree. so did people complain like this when the floppy drives were dropped?
Oh yeah, like they were being forced to give up an internal organ.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
I understand Apple needs to make money, but to remove a feature such as FW makes no sense at all unless Apple is trying to force you to upgrade to a MBP. I just don't think that's right.
Well, thats what they are doing, the funny thing is no one is holding a gun to peoples heads to make them buy one.

Right/wrong, its a corporation, they don't care, be glad they aren't selling poison milk to school children for profit.
 

patrixl

Suspended
Jun 19, 2009
107
0
I've never used Firewire in my life, I was actually leaning towards a Pro for my next Macbook but now it's all up in the air (hmm Air?.. hmmmm)

Anyways this 3 year old MB of mine still has life in it, I won't give it up yet I think.

Heck for 70$ I can "upgrade" it to have multitouch, not bad!


Patrix.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,579
131
Texas, unfortunately.
Well, thats what they are doing, the funny thing is no one is holding a gun to peoples heads to make them buy one.

Right/wrong, its a corporation, they don't care
, be glad they aren't selling poison milk to school children for profit.
It amazes me that people know this, and yet they accept it like it's just part of life that you can't change. So they try and explain it like a good thing...
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
It amazes me that people know this, and yet they accept it like it's just part of life that you can't change. So they try and explain it like a good thing...
How did I say its a good thing? I merely recognize its reality. Anything driven solely by capitalism will never do whats in the best interest of the people.

Again, how did I put that in a positive light at all? It just is what it is.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
if anything this move should just clarify that apple wants FW for the pro models and not the low end.

"They could have just left in the FW 400 but then how much different would that be compared to USB 2"

Why would apple want to still have to pay for those components when they are only used in one device? That doesn't make much sense when trying to streamline your manufacturing process as apple always is doing.
Since the poly MacBook is aimed at entry and education, these are consumers who generally aren't spending much money of FW capable equipment either.

When you are buying on a thin budget, you sure aren't going to be spending money splurging on high end equipment. Even if you are a school, there sure isn't a need for 100% of the students to be able to use that camera ... 1-10 cameras, and a couple computers capable of download would suffice.

If you really need FW, you'll spend the extra $200 to get it.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,988
Since the poly MacBook is aimed at entry and education, these are consumers who generally aren't spending much money of FW capable equipment either.

When you are buying on a thin budget, you sure aren't going to be spending money splurging on high end equipment.

If you really need FW, you'll spend the extra $200 to get it.
That was my thinking. Plus, I'm actually having a hard time finding what I want for external storage that uses FW800.:(
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
That was my thinking. Plus, I'm actually having a hard time finding what I want for external storage that uses FW800.:(
It is there, you just have to pay the extra $50 (SWAG) to get it, or hunt down a case and build it yourself.

Anyhow, the controllers since FW800 were never up to snuff, the current one I have hates the current OS ... and cannot stay plugged in without fouling the error log, and there is no driver update available.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,579
131
Texas, unfortunately.
How did I say its a good thing? I merely recognize its reality. Anything driven solely by capitalism will never do whats in the best interest of the people.

Again, how did I put that in a positive light at all? It just is what it is.
be glad they aren't selling poison milk to school children for profit.
Perhaps not the exact meaning you meant to get across, but at the very least it was an attempt to justify it in my eyes. No offense to you or anything...