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Adding FW would cost Apple less than $30. Their stock price just hit an all-time high. I think they could afford it.

Or they could not put it in and mace $30 more then they would have selling it for $999 anyway. The reason their stock price is at an all time high is because they make good money. If they make money, their share holders make money. If it cost about $30 more to make the MB, they would be making less money. That's the way it works. Could they? Yes. Should they? Their investors don't seem to think so.

This is a stupid differentiator.

Really? Is it stupid because you as an individual would use it, or because the majority of individuals who buy a MB would use it?
 
Adding FW would cost Apple less than $30. Their stock price just hit an all-time high. I think they could afford it.
thats not the point

do you realize there are companies who artificially restrict devices to make it differentiated?

there are phones out there for example that have camereas and models that dont. some of the ones that dont actually do have them but to differentiate, they covered it up in a new case.

or printers that are artificially made to print at not as high quality to protect their better models

heck, even apple did it with not enabling ibooks and emacs back in the day to span screen and only limit them to mirroring just to drive sales to other models if people did want that feature

its very prevalent

its not an issue of apple affording it or not. its the issue of apple selling and making a profit
This is a stupid differentiator.

what would you rather it be?

of the features to neglect, fw is the one i could easily get by the easiest, as could most people id reckon
 
Or they could not put it in and mace $30 more then they would have selling it for $999 anyway. The reason their stock price is at an all time high is because they make good money. If they make money, their share holders make money. If it cost about $30 more to make the MB, they would be making less money. That's the way it works. Could they? Yes. Should they? Their investors don't seem to think so.

Apple, the company that cuts corners on computer products but makes lots of money. Great news that it benefits the investors.

Really? Is it stupid because you as an individual would use it, or because the majority of individuals who buy a MB would use it?

Stupid because they just regressed their product for no reason except saving a few dollars (and blatantly shoving a percentage of their customer base to a higher margin product).
 
Apple, the company that cuts corners on computer products but makes lots of money. Great news that it benefits the investors.



Stupid because they just regressed their product for no reason except saving a few dollars (and blatantly shoving a percentage of their customer base to a higher margin product).

Again, no one is being forced to buy the newest revisions. If you want, you can buy some of the clearance Macs, or you could simply continue to use the laptop you have now.

Apple seems to be expressing a belief that not enough consumers actually benefit from the inclusion of FW in the Polycarbonate MB. Last time I checked they were a company that intends to make a profit and make the greatest amount of profit they can. If they sell a hundred thousand MacBooks and only ten thousand of the buyers actually use the FW port, they've cut their profit by $3 million dollars. As for the ten thousand who might have used it, I'm sure a portion of them wouldn't bump up to the next level because their perceived value of the FW port is lower then $200. They may be in that group that wants to upgrade to a newer HDD or solid state camcorder. Chances are, any HDD they own that uses FW also has a USB port on the back. Unless they are doing regular video editing, or file transfers measuring in the multiple gigs, they probably aren't going to miss the FW in the first place.

As I've already noted, few consumer level products that are currently on the market use FW as a transfer protocol. A portion of that ten thousand might also be first time computer buyers. As such, they are probably students. Most students I've known don't already own camcorders. They might buy a cheap one in college (key word being cheap), and as such, they probably aren't buying a FW camcorder. Or they use the video function on the DSLR they bought for the one photography class they will ever take in their entire life. Either way, they don't have anything that uses FW, and they probably wont any time soon.

I'd be willing to bet that describes 90% of that ten thousand. I'm also willing to bet that Apple's done research and found the statistics to be similar. If I'm right, that means Apple is only missing out on $1 million in sales. A third the cost of including FW in every MB.

I get how important FW can be to some people. I use it on a daily basis. I need it for my lively hood. However, most people don't. And if they already own a device that requires firewire, they probably own a firewire equipped machine. I own three. My old MacBook, my current MBP, and my current MP. By the time I no longer own these three machines, I'm prepared for the eventuality of having no FW. I'll probably need some USB 3.0 camcorders, or some other high speed transfer protocol. Would it be nice if technology were always backwards compatible? Yes. Would that be ridiculously cumbersome? Yes.

What it all, finally, comes down to is that you have plenty of choices. You could stick with your current machine (just like everyone else, you don't have to upgrade), you could drop firewire from your day to day use, or you could pony up $200 and use whatever equipment is too valuable for you to have to replace. Of course, there's one other option, you could drop OS X and buy a windows based laptop that supports FireWire. Apple isn't the only game in town when it comes to computers... don't know if you'd heard or not, they still only have around 10% of the market.
 
apple, if you're going to take away FW, at least add another USB port.

AND THATS ANOTHER THING!

Almost all PC laptops have at least 3, usually 4 USB ports, but the MB has only 2?

Are they trying to make the MB a 3 port item like the MBAir???

Apple seems to be expressing a belief that not enough consumers actually benefit from the inclusion of FW in the Polycarbonate MB. Last time I checked they were a company that intends to make a profit and make the greatest amount of profit they can. If they sell a hundred thousand MacBooks and only ten thousand of the buyers actually use the FW port, they've cut their profit by $3 million dollars. As for the ten thousand who might have used it, I'm sure a portion of them wouldn't bump up to the next level because their perceived value of the FW port is lower then $200. They may be in that group that wants to upgrade to a newer HDD or solid state camcorder. Chances are, any HDD they own that uses FW also has a USB port on the back. Unless they are doing regular video editing, or file transfers measuring in the multiple gigs, they probably aren't going to miss the FW in the first place.

You miss out on Target Disk Mode.
It is a super way to trouble shoot MB/P with problems.
It is also the fastest way to restore a drive on a Mac too.
And it is STILL only done via FW (because USB2 is not capable of it)

USB2 is really poor for backing up large drives, and Apple did not provide any eSATA connection.

FW800 is almost 4x faster then USB 2, and is a bragging point by Mac owners like me.


Yes, Apple could make money excluding FW on MB, but it can hurt customer satisfaction in saving a few bucks.
 
AND THATS ANOTHER THING!

Almost all PC laptops have at least 3, usually 4 USB ports, but the MB has only 2?

Are they trying to make the MB a 3 port item like the MBAir???

You really use more than 2 ports when your mobile? On what? Now stop and think, even if I do, how many of us non nerds plug into that many peripherals when on the move?
 
You really use more than 2 ports when your mobile? On what? Now stop and think, even if I do, how many of us non nerds plug into that many peripherals when on the move?

I only need 3-4 USB ports on my desk top, laptops I don't. I'll have my iPhone/iPod plugged in and maybe a thumb drive here and there. My printer is plugged in my Airport Express so I don't need an USB for that.
If the Macbook had 3 USB, people would want 4 so when will it end?
 
AND THATS ANOTHER THING!

Almost all PC laptops have at least 3, usually 4 USB ports, but the MB has only 2?

Are they trying to make the MB a 3 port item like the MBAir???



You miss out on Target Disk Mode.
It is a super way to trouble shoot MB/P with problems.
It is also the fastest way to restore a drive on a Mac too.
And it is STILL only done via FW (because USB2 is not capable of it)

USB2 is really poor for backing up large drives, and Apple did not provide any eSATA connection.

FW800 is almost 4x faster then USB 2, and is a bragging point by Mac owners like me.


Yes, Apple could make money excluding FW on MB, but it can hurt customer satisfaction in saving a few bucks.


I agree the fastest way would likely be if they added an SATA/USB combo port. (come on apple) USB2 is slow... 35 mb/sec for me. Good thing I own a mac and haven't needed to restore really. (backups can be a bitch though)

I don't bother bragging aboout the firewire, cause A. I never use it, and B. PC users can brag about having the SATA/USB combo port with 3GB/s bandwith... oh and actually having HDMI out (Shakes fist at apple) along with *Gasp* an expresscard slot. Hehe, so ports and connectivity aren't things I brag about with the mac... more the design.
 
everyone wants mbp specs in a mb for the mb price....:rolleyes:

tell me...would you rather have apple keep the cpu/gpu/ up the hdd the same as the 13 mbp or lower those but keep a port that the MAJORITY of people never use

i know my pick:cool:

if you REALLY need fw, just pony up the 200 bucks and get it. its not like it is some humongous price hike. they need some differentiator...do people not realize this? im glad the only differences are a lack of fw, lack of 8 gigs, and plastic and NOT the cpu/gpu and you even get a bigger hdd
For me, it's not about the price.I prefer the MacBook's plastic to the aluminum of the MacBook Pro. It's a big deal to me, I'd much rather not have aluminum.

But let's forget about that for a second. Apple had a $999 MacBook with FW. Now they don't. The machine is still $999, but it actually lost a feature. A week ago, you could get a $999 machine with FW built in. Now, you have to pay $200 more for it. Can you not see the problem here?

And in response to your question, I would have been perfectly happy if the MacBook had just kept the same specs (or even lowered them; not too many people will even use those specs to their full potential) with the redesigned case. But again, I guess that's just me.
 
For me, it's not about the price.I prefer the MacBook's plastic to the aluminum of the MacBook Pro. It's a big deal to me, I'd much rather not have aluminum.

But let's forget about that for a second. Apple had a $999 MacBook with FW. Now they don't. The machine is still $999, but it actually lost a feature. A week ago, you could get a $999 machine with FW built in. Now, you have to pay $200 more for it. Can you not see the problem here?

why do you neglect to mention the upgrades that the incorporated into the mb?

to me, and most i know, the upgrades are worth more than the loss of fw

but it is what it is right?
And in response to your question, I would have been perfectly happy if the MacBook had just kept the same specs (or even lowered them; not too many people will even use those specs to their full potential) with the redesigned case. But again, I guess that's just me.
really? lowered specs but keep fw? why on earth?

id wager more people will benefit from faster specs over the course of the life of the mb than a port that a minority ever use
 
Oh geez, not this whole Firewire debate again.

I said it a year ago and I'll say it again, Firewire is dead. It has very few uses and outside of those uses its dead.

I've had 5 different PCs with Firewire ports over the years and out of all of those times I've only ever used it once. And that was only because the Firewire cable was in reach and the USB cable was tied up and in the package still. Thats it. One time. Of all of the devices I've ever owned, including iPods, digital cameras, external drives, etc, only ONE of those has been Firewire "optional", my nearly 5 year old 2G iPod mini.

Outside of 16 track mixers that would be better off with another type of direct connection through a PCI interface, and old high end video cameras that are in need of an upgrade, Firewire is dead. Theres not even a point to having Firewire 800 on other Macs, when eSATA is faster and more widely available on external drives.

Firewire is just dead. Simple.

Outside of the people who have been with Macs prior to the Intel switch, I bet only a small, single digit percentage actually use Firewire.
 
For me, it's not about the price.I prefer the MacBook's plastic to the aluminum of the MacBook Pro. It's a big deal to me, I'd much rather not have aluminum.

But let's forget about that for a second. Apple had a $999 MacBook with FW. Now they don't. The machine is still $999, but it actually lost a feature. A week ago, you could get a $999 machine with FW built in. Now, you have to pay $200 more for it. Can you not see the problem here?

And in response to your question, I would have been perfectly happy if the MacBook had just kept the same specs (or even lowered them; not too many people will even use those specs to their full potential) with the redesigned case. But again, I guess that's just me.

It's still $999 because it has DDR3 RAM now (DDR2 before) and a bigger hard drive standard. So you lost a feature, but gained better RAM and a bigger hard drive.
I really don't know what people are complaining about. Just over a year ago the Macbook was I think starting at $1199 (120GB Hard drive/1GB DDR2 RAM) for the base MacBook and $1399 (160GB hard drive/2GB DDR2 RAM) for the higher model. So saying that if you spend the same $1199 on the MBP you get FW, SD slot, backlit keyboard, and if there is anything else I am forgetting.
 
It's still $999 because it has DDR3 RAM now (DDR2 before) and a bigger hard drive standard. So you lost a feature, but gained better RAM and a bigger hard drive.
I really don't know what people are complaining about. Just over a year ago the Macbook was I think starting at $1199 (120GB Hard drive/1GB DDR2 RAM) for the base MacBook and $1399 (160GB hard drive/2GB DDR2 RAM) for the higher model. So saying that if you spend the same $1199 on the MBP you get FW, SD slot, backlit keyboard, and if there is anything else I am forgetting.

You forgot to say that they also added a multitouch trackpad as well. I personally prefer the new macbook to the old one. Of course I don't use firewire, but at the end of the day the pro models have to offer something that the regular macbook doesn't or no one would buy the pro.
 
But let's forget about that for a second. Apple had a $999 MacBook with FW. Now they don't. The machine is still $999, but it actually lost a feature. A week ago, you could get a $999 machine with FW built in. Now, you have to pay $200 more for it. Can you not see the problem here?

And in response to your question, I would have been perfectly happy if the MacBook had just kept the same specs (or even lowered them; not too many people will even use those specs to their full potential) with the redesigned case. But again, I guess that's just me.


First off Cassie, based on your post, it's painfully obvious you haven't even seen the new Macbook. The screen is incredible now. No more washed out colors and limited viewing angles like the crappy screen on the previous Macbook. This new Macbook's screen is nearly as good as the new MBP's. In addition to the other upgrades, I would much rather lose FW in order to have a beautiful screen. If you care nothing about your eyes, fine, but I certainly care about mine. :p
 
maybe a mouse and a thumb drive, each of which can be removed if you need to hook up temporarily

at home, just get a usb hub

It makes me sick to see so many people here at school with wireless mice...hooked up to a god awful usb transmitter. ITS 2009 people, get a friggin bluetooth mouse for $20 !!

/rant.
 
hey hey hey, some of us still use wired mice lol

My point was if your going to go wireless, why go wireless with a freakin dongle your basically guaranteed to lose and takes up a usb port where it can break off of? Its not like bluetooth is some unheard of luxury.
 
It makes me sick to see so many people here at school with wireless mice...hooked up to a god awful usb transmitter. ITS 2009 people, get a friggin bluetooth mouse for $20 !!

/rant.

...where can you find a good BT mouse for only $20?

Besides, nano wireless mouse usually track more accurately than BT.... and the USB will draw less power than BT...
 
You really use more than 2 ports when your mobile? On what? Now stop and think, even if I do, how many of us non nerds plug into that many peripherals when on the move?

iPhone, camera, USB stick or memory card reader and/or external hdd. Occassionally a USB mouse. My Dell has 3 and there are time when all three are being used.
Having just 2 would be adequate but not desired.
 
You forgot to say that they also added a multitouch trackpad as well. I personally prefer the new macbook to the old one. Of course I don't use firewire, but at the end of the day the pro models have to offer something that the regular macbook doesn't or no one would buy the pro.
Thanks! That is a great thing also, I love my multitouch a lot! :D:D
 
You really use more than 2 ports when your mobile? On what? Now stop and think, even if I do, how many of us non nerds plug into that many peripherals when on the move?

Wireless mouse, check
USB flash drive, check
SD chard reader (or camera),... drat
iPod,.... nuts.
Time to pull out my hub
(on the move I do not hook anything up, but @ location I do hook a lot up)

And thats on the road.
@ home I have 2 printers, a scanner, joystick, big iPod, more USB F-Drive, multi-card reader (SD, MS, CF, etc) on a 7 port HUB.

By the sound of it, you are more a MBAir person.
 
But let's forget about that for a second. Apple had a $999 MacBook with FW. Now they don't. The machine is still $999, but it actually lost a feature. A week ago, you could get a $999 machine with FW built in. Now, you have to pay $200 more for it. Can you not see the problem here?

And in response to your question, I would have been perfectly happy if the MacBook had just kept the same specs (or even lowered them; not too many people will even use those specs to their full potential) with the redesigned case. But again, I guess that's just me.

First off Cassie, based on your post, it's painfully obvious you haven't even seen the new Macbook. The screen is incredible now. No more washed out colors and limited viewing angles like the crappy screen on the previous Macbook. This new Macbook's screen is nearly as good as the new MBP's. In addition to the other upgrades, I would much rather lose FW in order to have a beautiful screen. If you care nothing about your eyes, fine, but I certainly care about mine. :p

Cassie is exactly right, Apple removed features for basically the same machine.

The new screen, new track pad, new case is a guaranteed progressions for any redesign (they applied them to all the other models). There is nothing surprising on the new MB, except the removal of the FW port.
 
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