Electric Motorcycle Startup Mission Motors Ceases Operations After Losing Talent to Apple

[kingtj]

Sure, but in a way, this has *always* been the case. Back in the 80's and 90's, Apple did this quit a bit, buying out software developers who created products that did something Apple wanted to offer as part of the OS themselves.

Now, it's more visible because they're buying startups in the process of creating tangible products.

I can see how this can become a life-threatening issue for a start-up facing a giant such as Apple. These start-ups are often comprised of only a handful of people and if Apple (with its deep pockets) makes offers-they-can't-refuse to essential people, then they are dead in the water.

 

[bsolar]

HOW DARE ANYONE PICK TO GO TO A COMPANY WILLING TO PAY THEM A HIGHER WAGE AND OFFER THEM MORE OPPORTUNITIES! THE NERVE OF SUCH PEOPLE.

Well, that's likely what Apple had in mind when they colluded with other high-tech companies to avoid having their talented staff receive better offers from competitors.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I'm amazed how little Zero Motorcycles is mentioned in this thread. They have had now five model years of all electric motorcycles. Their exec crew is a Who's Who of motorcycle companies and they are doing quite well. There is even an app for their motorcycles similar to the Tesla app.

I was going to bring them up but decided not to. Zero shows what happens when you get a product out for sale (and don't just develop forever in a fast-changing market) - you don't lose all your engineers to potential competitors.

 

[gnasher729]

That was a dick move by Apple, and those engineers too.

Apple, Google and others have been sued and ordered to pay out over 400 million dollars because they had agreements not to poach each others employees.

With that background, if Apple saw these employees, and wanted them, it would have been almost criminal not to make them offers - after just losing 400 million dollars for not making offers to people employed elsewhere.

And now put yourself in the position of these engineers who according to you made a "dick move". They are working at a company that is going nowhere. Career progression = none. Salary increases - what do you expect in a company going nowhere? Big payout when the startup hits the jackpot? Zero chance. So please give me a rational reason why you wouldn't move to Apple if you were in that position.

 

[Gasu E.]

You know that if you had a job and somebody in a dick move gave you a ton of money
to leave your job you would take that new job in a heartbeat.

True, if I didn't believe in the future of the company. Apparently these engineers had insufficient belief in that future. That's on the company's management.

 

[scott911]

Pretty sure Apple would release the Apple Scooter before they released a crotch rocket.

And Apple's scooter would "feature" permanently glued on rubber wheels.
Go buy a new scooter when the tires wear out.

 

[gnasher729]

True, if I didn't believe in the future of the company. Apparently these engineers had insufficient belief in that future. That's on the company's management.

It's not just the company's future. It's the pay checks that the company pays today and in the future as well. You can be quite confident that Apple will not run out of money and lay you off, ever.

 

[GFLPraxis]

That's an interesting excuse.

Mission Motors is/was a tiny company with a tinker-toy product. They were showing it off as a fast-speed race bike at auto shows or events, but for years and years they have been working it up and effectively going no where. The 2009 spec was for a bike that could go 150mph and 150 miles on a charge. I know electric vehicles, and that bike could definitely reach 150mph, but realistically it would never get 150 miles/charge unless all the stars are in alignment and the driver does some amazing control that makes the battery work perfectly. I would bet it was more like 80 miles of "normal" use.

For a commuter bike, that's wonderful. Who commutes on motorcycles these days and wants this bike? Almost none--the market would be a sliver of a sliver. Who would want a bike with that kind of limit as a sports bike? Almost none. When competing against gas bikes, this bike doesn't fare well in any specs. It was a good project to get a paycheck for a few years, and little else.

Given how light a bike is, it likely doesn't require that much power to push. Why is 150 mile range so eyebrow raising? There's 280-mile Teslas.

Sure, you can't fit as much battery in a bike without weight issues, but you also need way less power. Half the range of a Tesla seems doable.

 

[JHankwitz]

That was a dick move by Apple, and those engineers too.

"Dick" move or not, everyone's primary driving force is money. It was a win-win for Apple and the engineers. The bike company as likely not viable and in a death spiral before the engineers left, and they found a way out.

 

[Aluminum213]

"Some close to Mission Motors said it had reached a point of no return by last fall, when departures to Apple, and other companies, accelerated after a long struggle to find funding and a sound business model."

So, 1. no funding and 2. No sound business model.

Yep, all Apple's fault.

Hard to get funding when Apple is hiring away your top engineers

 

[JHankwitz]

there must be someone else who can build these things...

Harley Davidson started selling electric cycles quite some time ago. They're great! But, they lack the Harley sound.

 

[JHankwitz]

Hard to get funding when Apple is hiring away your top engineers

Not if you've got a great business plan and product.

 

[vladi]

Same thing is going to happen with Apple. Great minds go there to get paid and then they leave to do something on their own. Apple today is nothing but a catalyst of great talent. They don't stay there nor will ever stay there, they just go there to get their life financially secured and they move on. Working for a giant like Apple or Microsoft is not fun at all and it is really frustrating if you are middle to top kind of guy whose ideas get override most of the time but they expect you to contribute or work on inferior ideas.

I absolutely feel their designers pain as they have to listen to creatively depleted shell of himself ex-designer Jon who is actually a business manager more then anything today but yet he wants to prove himself that he still has it. And then you get the Watch, product that does nothing essentially while trying to do everything. Oh and the crown gimmick! Thats so awesome Jon but how about you actually let someone else take over because there are at least 100 more talented people below you that would design a whole lot better than you will ever do from now on.

In case you didn't notice Apple rarely changes its key people, like the cream of the top is the same and remains the same all this time. Whenever someone new comes in it turns out he or she is a friend of already established Apple executive. That is their demise right there.

 

[LordVic]

Nothing to see here really. Did Apple possibly poach enough employees away to cause this company to have to shut down? Possible.

Is this Apple's fault? No. There's nothing illegal about offering a job to someone who is already employed. Barring any legal matters that might exist between Mission Motorcycles and the employees.

Does it absolutely suck having some giant corporation come in and take your best talent? Abso-lutely. It stinks, It hurts and i've had it happen where I work. But the correct answer is not to cry foul (unless you can find something illegally done), but to pay your employees right. to offer your employees the proper salary bands. To make them offers that will make it worth their success. If your employees are willing to jump ship for a few extra dollars, than there's likely a culture problem that they're also willingly trying to get away from.

 

[CFreymarc]

If your employees are willing to jump ship for a few extra dollars, than there's likely a culture problem that they're also willingly trying to get away from.

I am sure it was for a lot more than "a few extra dollars" as Apple is paying very pretty pennies for top talent now. Wouldn't be surprised if the signing bonus was more than a years salary at Mission.

 

[Glideslope]

An Apple car is cool, but an Apple iCycle would be pretty neat.

"Apple Commuter."

 

[Aluminum213]

Not if you've got a great business plan and product.

If you're a human being with a family and Apple says we will pay you 10x the amount to leave your company , you will likely leave

It's hard to run a start up with no funding when your vaLue (your talent) is being poached

 

[Lactoes]

That was a dick move by Apple, and those engineers too.

"Dick move?"

Look at it from Apple's (or any company's) perspective: They have a goal of getting the best talent for the job. It's not like their *mission* was to shut down this company, but if that's the collateral damage then it's just business.

As for the engineers, virtually any employee would do this. Show me someone who wouldn't turn down an offer to put their skill set to work at one of the biggest, most advanced, and best companies to work for in the world. If that's not enough, I'm sure the money wasn't bad either. If that means a better future for you and your family, no one can blame them. Certainly not a "dick move."

Lastly, I like this company's ideas, but if they can't execute, then maybe their failure is a lot more than just losing a few employees. It comes off as whiney to place the blame on this.

 

[johnnyrb]

Why didn't this guy hire new people? Did Apple hire everyone in the world capable of performing this job? If not, how can this possibly be Apple's fault? If you run a company, have great employees, you will do what's necessary to keep those employees if they threaten to leave. If you are unable to retain them, you will have to rehire. That's all part of doing business. A CEO should know this. If not, perhaps the CEO is the reason his company went bankrupt.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Steve Jobs brought us the bicycle for the mind: the Mac.

That's quite enough for me.

Motorbike, begone.

 

[bergert]

"Some close to Mission Motors said it had reached a point of no return by last fall, when departures to Apple, and other companies, accelerated after a long struggle to find funding and a sound business model."

So, 1. no funding and 2. No sound business model.

Yep, all Apple's fault.

yes, but Apple's fault - that makes great click-bait !

 

[mateytate]

They should release an Apple bike too.

I can see that going about as well as the Sinclair C5 did!

 

[kironin]

Not if you've got a great business plan and product.

Exactly! the key phrase in the article was ""... and failing to develop a viable business model"

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Hard to get funding when Apple is hiring away your top engineers

rusty2192 said: ↑
"Some close to Mission Motors said it had reached a point of no return by last fall, when departures to Apple, and other companies, accelerated after a long struggle to find funding and a sound business model."

Thought I'd accentuate the timeline. First came the business problems, then came the departures.

People with a pile of stock options tend to hang around so long as there's hope. When hope for cashing in evaporates, what's left? The best time to get a new job is while you still have one. Loyally hang around 'til the bitter end and you're just another out-of-work loser.

 

[Tycho24]

I can see how this can become a life-threatening issue for a start-up facing a giant such as Apple. These start-ups are often comprised of only a handful of people and if Apple (with its deep pockets) makes offers-they-can't-refuse to essential people, then they are dead in the water.

Cool story.
I mean it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the article, but ok.
It pretty clearly states that they had no viable business model...
Lol, or did you think the engineers they lost were also responsible for creation of the company's business model??