Wrong.
Free speech has limits. Legally.
My question was as to whether or not your scenario impacts "limits"...
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Elon Musk Offers to Buy All of Twitter
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Wrong.
Free speech has limits. Legally.
My question was as to whether or not your scenario impacts "limits"...
I know. Look at my past posts. Defenders of Elon’s trolling are looking to financially gain from his hype, just like Elon.
Some of you need to really stop buying everything Elon says
His track record is not great in that regard
His track record is not great in that regard
I have no idea why people are focused on "free speech".
That doesn't apply to private companies, nor should it.
The vast majority of most any user base doesn't really want any/all types of often extremely awful behavior to be allowed, just because it's technically "legal".
That's not a place which is enjoyable to frequent for the vast majority of normal users.
That doesn't apply to private companies, nor should it.
The vast majority of most any user base doesn't really want any/all types of often extremely awful behavior to be allowed, just because it's technically "legal".
That's not a place which is enjoyable to frequent for the vast majority of normal users.
I still maintain that Elon should simply create his own platform with the ideology and framework he thinks will work best.
If it truly turns out to be great, it will find growth.
He's in a unique position with a massive following, where he is in fact an "entity" that probably could create the needed interest and and growth for a new, from scratch, offering.
Unlike Trump (also trying to roll his own), Elon really does have fans and followers across a very wide spectrum of ages, backgrounds, political persuasions, etc
If it truly turns out to be great, it will find growth.
He's in a unique position with a massive following, where he is in fact an "entity" that probably could create the needed interest and and growth for a new, from scratch, offering.
Unlike Trump (also trying to roll his own), Elon really does have fans and followers across a very wide spectrum of ages, backgrounds, political persuasions, etc
This one always still cracks me up
(not really referring to anyone commenting in here, please don't take it that way - just a funny meme I see from time to time -- mostly in defense of Tesla stuff)
(not really referring to anyone commenting in here, please don't take it that way - just a funny meme I see from time to time -- mostly in defense of Tesla stuff)
Is it just out there or have platforms like FB, Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter been utilized to over-sensitize, over-emphasize and over-focus issues like these? That itself would be a good debate.
If I want exercise I'll have pleasant exercise, not unpleasant exercise like walking to the shops. That's the smart thing to do if you value your free time as I do.
Edit: I live on the edge of the countryside. One minute east of my house and I'm in open land for miles- im next to a nature reserve. If I go the opposite way into town it's all concrete.
I didn't like the way you were judging your neighbours for choosing to drive to the shops. They might be lazy, but that choice does not make them lazy.
Here are the last two paragraphs from the great linked piece below:
"Groups unhappy with Twitter have been attempting to start their own speech platforms for years. There have been at least three distinct “Twitter but with free speech” attempts in the past four years: Parler, GETTR, and most recently Truth Social, the service launched by Trump. They have all developed moderation frameworks.
Free expression should be a foundational value. And Musk is correct that social-media companies have incredible power and no accountability. Opaque moderation decisions and reactive ad hoc policies have undermined the public trust; playing whack-a-mole with rumors or responding to propaganda with fact-checks seems to have led to more animus and entrenchment, not less. But if you think that, by taking the “public square” private and consolidating control even further, Musk will somehow uphold free expression and protect democracy, you will be disappointed."
Source:
www.theatlantic.com
"Groups unhappy with Twitter have been attempting to start their own speech platforms for years. There have been at least three distinct “Twitter but with free speech” attempts in the past four years: Parler, GETTR, and most recently Truth Social, the service launched by Trump. They have all developed moderation frameworks.
Free expression should be a foundational value. And Musk is correct that social-media companies have incredible power and no accountability. Opaque moderation decisions and reactive ad hoc policies have undermined the public trust; playing whack-a-mole with rumors or responding to propaganda with fact-checks seems to have led to more animus and entrenchment, not less. But if you think that, by taking the “public square” private and consolidating control even further, Musk will somehow uphold free expression and protect democracy, you will be disappointed."
Source:
Elon Musk Is Fighting for Attention, Not Free Speech
The social-media platform isn’t a public square. It’s a gladiatorial arena.
Another really great thread with thoughts on this here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1514956147073044480.html
Just a few key excerpts I wanted to highlight though
"I am very much against censorship. I am, for example, against the censorship of every topic that the social networks blocked during the pandemic especially. I have personally been harmed by this."
"However, I also understand many non-obvious things about the complex dynamics that arise in large social network platforms, and I will tell you this:"
"Censorship is inevitable on large social network platforms. If you run one of sufficient size, you will be FORCED to censor things. Not by governments, or even by "users," but by the emergent dynamics of the social network itself."
"IIRC, almost every large social platform started out wanting to uphold free speech. They all buckle."
"And it's not because certain ideas are good or bad, or true or false. It has to do purely with operational issues that arise with humans that disagree in large numbers on digital platforms."
Just a few key excerpts I wanted to highlight though
"I am very much against censorship. I am, for example, against the censorship of every topic that the social networks blocked during the pandemic especially. I have personally been harmed by this."
"However, I also understand many non-obvious things about the complex dynamics that arise in large social network platforms, and I will tell you this:"
"Censorship is inevitable on large social network platforms. If you run one of sufficient size, you will be FORCED to censor things. Not by governments, or even by "users," but by the emergent dynamics of the social network itself."
"IIRC, almost every large social platform started out wanting to uphold free speech. They all buckle."
"And it's not because certain ideas are good or bad, or true or false. It has to do purely with operational issues that arise with humans that disagree in large numbers on digital platforms."
To sum up the above
What people are I guess "missing" here is that we haven't even come close to solving the problem of having a public square that encompasses all of a country, let alone all of the world.
Humanity wasn't brought up with this level of interaction scale.
It's honestly not even clear that it's possible.
I'd argue the social networking era has broken a lot of civilization and frankly "our minds" -- and we are still in that state and simply trying to cope. It's not clear there will be some good story or resolution to arise any time soon -- or ever.
This is one of many reasons I think it's better for "more platforms to exist" (i.e. Elon, go make one!) so that different experiences can cater to different preferences. It's a much better model than trying to make something that caters to "all of humanity"
What people are I guess "missing" here is that we haven't even come close to solving the problem of having a public square that encompasses all of a country, let alone all of the world.
Humanity wasn't brought up with this level of interaction scale.
It's honestly not even clear that it's possible.
I'd argue the social networking era has broken a lot of civilization and frankly "our minds" -- and we are still in that state and simply trying to cope. It's not clear there will be some good story or resolution to arise any time soon -- or ever.
This is one of many reasons I think it's better for "more platforms to exist" (i.e. Elon, go make one!) so that different experiences can cater to different preferences. It's a much better model than trying to make something that caters to "all of humanity"
Why doesn’t Elon buy Parler, or the one started by ex-president? Very cheap compared to Twitter.
He shouldn't buy anything if you ask me.
Just create, from scratch, what he thinks is the best model of how something like this should operate and see if it takes off.
He's got the reach and audience to get a lot of people to try it.
It would find success if he's able to solve for all the issues here (good luck)
Honestly -- we need more players in all tech spaces anyhow.
The consolidation over the last decade or so has been a complete net negative.
Exactly. Much cheaper than buying outright. I am all for it. If he thinks he can do it better, then prove it.
- Open source moderation code.Here are the last two paragraphs from the great linked piece below:
"Groups unhappy with Twitter have been attempting to start their own speech platforms for years. There have been at least three distinct “Twitter but with free speech” attempts in the past four years: Parler, GETTR, and most recently Truth Social, the service launched by Trump. They have all developed moderation frameworks.
Free expression should be a foundational value. And Musk is correct that social-media companies have incredible power and no accountability. Opaque moderation decisions and reactive ad hoc policies have undermined the public trust; playing whack-a-mole with rumors or responding to propaganda with fact-checks seems to have led to more animus and entrenchment, not less. But if you think that, by taking the “public square” private and consolidating control even further, Musk will somehow uphold free expression and protect democracy, you will be disappointed."
Source:
Elon Musk Is Fighting for Attention, Not Free Speech
The social-media platform isn’t a public square. It’s a gladiatorial arena.
- All moderation made by AI or humans having publicly accessible tracking.
- All speech allowed, limited by the law of the county it appears in.
That is what he is proposing. Perhaps the masses should stop speculating and look at his proposal.
I know my neighbours, speak to them a couple of times a week and you do not. As the majority of them have told me that they have no interest in walking to the store and they are lazy for choosing not to, my statement is based on reality from conversations with them and not judgement. I did not like the way you were judging my comments without having any knowledge of the situation. Good evening.
Then he should go create all that and prove it works and leave Twitter as is.
At this point in technology, it's downright dystopian and scary to think about injecting AI into something like moderation.
To that point though...
The scale of moderation here is insurmountable (until proven otherwise).
Facebook has already said as much many times over.
This is one area I actually believe what they are saying.
They are saying it for their own reasons, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect either.
Proposing things and being able to execute on them are very -- VERY -- different things.
I could do an entire essay on all the things that haven't gone "as he's proposed" in the last decade.
Not to mention - again - nobody using these types of interaction platforms actually wants "all speech allowed".
I guarantee you -- GUARANTEE YOU -- Elon himself won't stand for the kinds of things that would be said about him on a platform he controlled -- even if the speech was fully "legal"
Would you admit that the goal is reasonable? What is it with transparency that has so many people afraid?
Yes, very reasonable. After all, we know how successful Parler and the like are.
I think the goal is exceptionally optimistic, but I encourage him to try.
He should start his own service, with his visions, from the ground up.
(he's going to run into all the problems already run into by others over time)
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