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I'd be shocked too if I got those emails. They look like they were written by a teenager, or younger!

Spelling mistakes, poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation and sentence structure. The emails look incredibly lazy and casual without an ounce of professionalism whatsoever. If I got an email like that I'd be immediately looking for a new partner!

I've heard Americans are more casual in email but if you're managing a highly profitable relationship with your key client I would've thought a bit of professionalism wouldn't go astray.
 
I'm a bit shocked, but many that's because of my naivety towards the details of law.
I don't understand how this internal and private corporate mailings and conversations are presented publicly like this. How does a company (competition) has access to this private conversations from another rival company and present them against the other company? Is that even legal? It must be, if it's presented in a court of law. But it doesn't make sense to me. This is almost the same, almost, if someone private letters are made public.
This type of conversations is a normal, day by day talk in all big and small commercial companies, they have to discuss this things, they worry about things and they have to resolve them. Taking this private mailings and conversations out of context and exposing them to the public is very troubling and confusing. Because they can be misinterpreted and used wrongly, like they are using them right now, to confuse and mislead people's opinions.

Docs are obtained via discovery during pre-trial. Brief explanation here.

Documents that become evidence also become public information unless sealed by the judge. That's how they get into the media. The way the media uses them and attys in court use them are different and the jurors, if its a jury trial, and not sequestered, are not suppose to read media reports pertaining to the case. Doing such is grounds for a mistrial.
 
That email is disgusting. I see the same kind of correspondence going on in my workplace that unfortunately it seems mainstream in American companies. How embarrassing. I used to teach my Thai students not to write like that and this just craps on everything I've taught them.
 
They don't actually show the products in every day use. The ad attempts to give the impression that people with Apple products are poised to do great things for mankind. With so many people still feeling the effects of the recession that kind of grandiose thinking is out of step with people's lives.

In contrast, the older Apple ads, showcased an adventurous lifestyle that was within the grasp of many who viewed those ads. That's the difference.

Sorry. You need to do some research.
No "attempt" and no "impression". Those are actual real people, actually really using their devices. For real. Look it up.
(and you've clearly missed the whole point of the entire campaign)
 
The, grammar, and, spelling, in, emails, these, days, isn't, surprising. The, onset, of, texting, and, tweeting, has, caused, people, to, write, in, grunts.

Yeah, that's, better ... THANKS.
 
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I think Apple was kind of confused with Samsung's aggressive ad campaign for the Galaxy S3. I'm still not sure why they didn't introduce the iPhone 5 in TV ads like what they did in the keynote. A mysterious, shiny, subtle, elegant iPhone 5 gradually rotates and goes up.
 
I'm still not sure why they didn't introduce the iPhone 5 in TV ads like what they did in the keynote. A mysterious, shiny, subtle, elegant iPhone 5 gradually rotates and goes up.

Apple products, while good, are boring - no need to rehash a previous ad campaign - it will only ad fuel to the fire.
 
This is what happens when the iron fist, aka Steve is no longer around.

He is a master of "allowing" creatives to do what they do best, but then also reigning them in to really nail the concept and vision. As someone who does this for a living, the more input I get from the client, the clearer their needs, and the more dedicated to their vision, the better the end result... Steve was the master at this and without him the results reflect a lack of clear direction.
 
I dont like the fact that these emails are being presented to the public. Even just a few words can give insight of how a company functions internally and can be of great advantage to competing companies' future strategies and in understanding their "enemy".

Yep, that's the whole point why both sets of attorneys want access to such documents.

They can use them, sometimes out of context, to convince the jury of whatever it is they need to win their case.

For example, Apple used Samsung's internal UI comparison document in the last big case. It worked, too, even though in reality few of the suggestions were taken, and even those were not unique to Apple.

--

Because of the important of electronic discovery these days, there are now government guidelines over keeping email data intact, and procedures for searches of that data. Failure to do so can result in large fines, legal penalties, and even lawyer disbarment.

(Btw, Judge Grewal slammed both Apple and Google over discovery methods for this current trial. Google, for not revealing what keywords they used, Apple for not being willing to suggest any, and both for not cooperating with each other.)

.
 
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Not rude at all. Thats why I responded. if you hadn't noticed, I outright ignore the obvious fanboys who absolutely have no ability to critically think for themselves.

you are not one of these :p enjoyed the wasted afternoon at work anyways. cheers.

I may seem harshly critical. But it's not against just anyone. If I have a personal fault (I do, many), but my biggest one is Cynicism. I nitpick details of everythign that is claimed as "fact". So in Schillers (and many sales peoples). These sort of embelleshed "half truths" in order to try and sway people who aren't that knowledgable in the area, it bugs me as wrong. tell the whole truth, exactly as it is, without embelleshments or 'your take' on it. and lets your product stand.

Thanks.

On the topic of telling the whole truth about tech products, I have always said that just about anything you can get done on a Apple device you can get done using something else. It just won't look as cool. :cool: Seriously, though, Apple has earned my loyalty by making beautiful products that are a dream to use and that are continuously evolving, often (not always) a step ahead of the competition's.

BTW, to cut down on the Cynicism, read less Douglas Adams. He was side-splittingly funny, but always with a dark and dour streak.
 
The lack of capital letters from an Ad agency makes me sad.

I gotta say, if I was an important executive in a company as big as Apple, and I got an email like that from my ad agency, I'd have fired them right there on the spot. Ad agencies are supposed to be full of effective communicators. An email without any capital letters, written as sloppily as that, that would not fill me with a lot of confidence in the ad agency's ability to communicate effectively. Furthermore I'd find it disrespectful for the blatant lack of care the other person was showing, considering how much business I was giving them.

I would certainly not have sent back as long and thoughtful a response as Phil Schiller did. My reply would have been in all caps and two words long. He's a bigger man than I.
 
I'm sure you're right. But I doubt it would have had anything to do with upper case letters or the lack of them. I don't think Steve would've given a crap about that.

My comment about Steve Jobs wasn't in reference to capital letters. (Thus, I used a new paragraph). It was about the crappy job the ad company did in 2012.
 
Grammar nazis worldwide are crying. Meanwhile people with real jobs making money knows nobody gives a ******.

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I gotta say, if I was an important executive in a company as big as Apple, and I got an email like that from my ad agency, I'd have fired them right there on the spot. Ad agencies are supposed to be full of effective communicators. An email without any capital letters, written as sloppily as that, that would not fill me with a lot of confidence in the ad agency's ability to communicate effectively. Furthermore I'd find it disrespectful for the blatant lack of care the other person was showing, considering how much business I was giving them.

I would certainly not have sent back as long and thoughtful a response as Phil Schiller did. My reply would have been in all caps and two words long. He's a bigger man than I.

101 reasons why you aren't important.

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Apple products, while good, are boring - no need to rehash a previous ad campaign - it will only ad fuel to the fire.

Quite the opposite. Apple products are extremely sexy. Not sure where you've been the past decade.

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That email is disgusting. I see the same kind of correspondence going on in my workplace that unfortunately it seems mainstream in American companies. How embarrassing. I used to teach my Thai students not to write like that and this just craps on everything I've taught them.

Relax guy, it's just an email. It's not a scientific article. A little overly anal to react like that.
 
Apostrophe abuse. Let's not forget that.
I can't believe that someone at an ad agency writing to an Apple executive is so damn sloppy and careless in his writing.

But wow. Interesting piece of insight.
 
I'd be shocked too if I got those emails. They look like they were written by a teenager, or younger!

Spelling mistakes, poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation and sentence structure. The emails look incredibly lazy and casual without an ounce of professionalism whatsoever. If I got an email like that I'd be immediately looking for a new partner!

I've heard Americans are more casual in email but if you're managing a highly profitable relationship with your key client I would've thought a bit of professionalism wouldn't go astray.

Sigh... Another one who doesn't understand email. The real world doesn't include email law or capitalization ethics.

Are you people seriously this anal about emails you send?

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I agree that this particular agency was way out of line with their specific comments, especially likening the 2013 situation (one of real achievement, leadership and abundance) to 1997, the nadir of Apple innovation and status. But you are way out of line in pontificating that ad agencies or marketing in general should have no say in product development, how a company is run, or future decisions. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding about what real marketing is, and is 180 degrees from the truth about how great business/brands run. Companies that flatly ignore feedback from their sales and marketing departments go out of business almost as fast as companies who are slaves to them.

Steve Jobs himself was a master of marketing, and used it as effectively internally as he did externally. A classic example is the "Think Differently" campaign. It undoubtedly did a great job of beating the drum for Apple when they had very little product innovation to crow about, but more importantly it internally defined for Apple and it's employees who they were, what their purpose was, how singular that is, and how high the standard was for their collective and individual conduct/productivity moving forward. Branding isn't just putting lipstick on a pig. It's deciding who and what you want to be, then manifesting it and letting the world know about it.

Jobs often demonized mindless devotion to focus groups, design by committee, and slavishly following trends, and these have often been wrongly characterized as "marketing". But that's as empty headed as saying Android is open and Apple is closed. A bunch of unproductive yammering. As a discipline that is focused on understanding people (consumers), what they want/need/think, and the current state of the market/competition in terms of satisfying/influencing those things, marketing is uniquely qualified to positively influence everything from product development to employee behavior, as well as external communication and sales.

Highly technical people often aren't intuitively gifted at knowing/understanding people, and "people" people often lack technical savvy or practical imagination. Apple was blessed with a leader who had both amazing facility for technical subjects as well as deep, intuitive understanding of what people want/need/think. And that blessing has led to the curse of Apple fans, and perhaps Apple itself, believing that ALL product engineers should be able to perform such a freakish double whammy. But Steve Jobs' don't come along that often. And even geniuses like Jony Ive need counter-influences like Jobs to keep them balanced or, left to their own devices, they can create things like the chilly, under-intuitive, emotionally "flat" iOS7.

When practiced by talented, disciplined people, marketing and engineering are not natural enemies. And good companies know that, which is why most of them leverage the strengths of a wide variety of "thinking types" to innovate and execute both products and communication. Balance is key to success. And since uber-hybrid all-in-ones like Jobs are few and far between, being open to the influence of a talented creative/human/marketing voice is a healthy practice. Clearly in this case, the specific TBWA partner who penned that letter wasn't that voice (though to be fair, many past TBWA/Chiat/Day partners have been). Hopefully Angela Errands, and Apple's future agency partners, will be.

You're mostly mistaken in that you give too much credit to Steve, where an ad agency probably came up with those ideas in the first place. Tbwa/Chiat/day are brilliant. As are a lot of ad agencies. Some are really bad and lots I'm between.
 
E-mail is still writing and I would imagine that most writing happens online these days. Following the rules of a language makes you really think about what you're trying to say. It ensures clear communication and understanding on the other end. It also says that you actually care.

I also invite people to educate themselves on what a Nazi really is.
 
In defense of MAL and TBWA\Chiat, the agency many of you are slamming, was responsible for Think Different, 1984, and Mac VS PC. They created the early iconic iPod ads. They created the iPhone "hello" spot. This is the legendary agency of Lee Clow, the man whose agency created everything from the iconic Absolut bottle campaigns to the Taco Bell Chihuahua.

The Apple team only moved out of the main Chiat offices and became Media Arts Lab when concerns about brand secrets meant they needed their own locked-down space.

It's kind of hilarious that people who claim to be in "advertising" think MAL should be canned over punctuation. I'd like to see if 1/100th of the output from these other "advertising" people was as well regarded.

Thank you. Everyone read this and **** kindly please. With respect.
 
E-mail is still writing and I would imagine that most writing happens online these days. Following the rules of a language makes you really think about what you're trying to say. It ensures clear communication and understanding on the other end. It also says that you actually care.

I also invite people to educate themselves on what a Nazi really is.

The problem is you're letting a language create rules when a language should allow you freedom of creativity to express yourself, not limit you. Also grammar nazi is a figure of speech, most people know what real nazis did in WWII. Not sure why you would nitpick over common knowledge.

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Certainly not to someone I'm on first name terms with and (seemingly) meet with every week.

I would say the opposite. Maybe you need to abide by so called internet language rules with people you don't know.
 
E-mail is still writing and I would imagine that most writing happens online these days. Following the rules of a language makes you really think about what you're trying to say. It ensures clear communication and understanding on the other end. It also says that you actually care.
Early on in phil 'shocked' schiller's response to that first email:

We discussed how the iPhone as a product and it's [sic] resulting market success is much better than people seem to be thinking about it.

It's almost Palinesque.

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I would say the opposite. Maybe you need to abide by so called internet language rules with people you don't know.
Sorry, you've completely lost me here. What are internet language rules? Are you suggesting that Nameless TBWA Guy should be more formal with Phil Schocker because they actually know each other?!
 
Nonsesne... All the apple fans here insisted that Samsungs ads were obvious moves of desperation...
 
I agree that this particular agency was way out of line with their specific comments, especially likening the 2013 situation (one of real achievement, leadership and abundance) to 1997, the nadir of Apple innovation and status. But you are way out of line in pontificating that ad agencies or marketing in general should have no say in product development, how a company is run, or future decisions. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding about what real marketing is, and is 180 degrees from the truth about how great business/brands run. Companies that flatly ignore feedback from their sales and marketing departments go out of business almost as fast as companies who are slaves to them.

Steve Jobs himself was a master of marketing, and used it as effectively internally as he did externally. A classic example is the "Think Differently" campaign. It undoubtedly did a great job of beating the drum for Apple when they had very little product innovation to crow about, but more importantly it internally defined for Apple and it's employees who they were, what their purpose was, how singular that is, and how high the standard was for their collective and individual conduct/productivity moving forward. Branding isn't just putting lipstick on a pig. It's deciding who and what you want to be, then manifesting it and letting the world know about it.

Jobs often demonized mindless devotion to focus groups, design by committee, and slavishly following trends, and these have often been wrongly characterized as "marketing". But that's as empty headed as saying Android is open and Apple is closed. A bunch of unproductive yammering. As a discipline that is focused on understanding people (consumers), what they want/need/think, and the current state of the market/competition in terms of satisfying/influencing those things, marketing is uniquely qualified to positively influence everything from product development to employee behavior, as well as external communication and sales.

Highly technical people often aren't intuitively gifted at knowing/understanding people, and "people" people often lack technical savvy or practical imagination. Apple was blessed with a leader who had both amazing facility for technical subjects as well as deep, intuitive understanding of what people want/need/think. And that blessing has led to the curse of Apple fans, and perhaps Apple itself, believing that ALL product engineers should be able to perform such a freakish double whammy. But Steve Jobs' don't come along that often. And even geniuses like Jony Ive need counter-influences like Jobs to keep them balanced or, left to their own devices, they can create things like the chilly, under-intuitive, emotionally "flat" iOS7.

When practiced by talented, disciplined people, marketing and engineering are not natural enemies. And good companies know that, which is why most of them leverage the strengths of a wide variety of "thinking types" to innovate and execute both products and communication. Balance is key to success. And since uber-hybrid all-in-ones like Jobs are few and far between, being open to the influence of a talented creative/human/marketing voice is a healthy practice. Clearly in this case, the specific TBWA partner who penned that letter wasn't that voice (though to be fair, many past TBWA/Chiat/Day partners have been). Hopefully Angela Errands, and Apple's future agency partners, will be.

Congrats, you win the smartest post of the thread.
Someone that gets it.
 
jrwizzle is absolute not like what you are calling him. YOU are the one not getting his point, I feel sad that here he is trying to have an intellectual discussion...

No reason to feel sad for me, not agreeing with someone doesn't mean to don't comprehend what they are saying....as for the "intellectual" comment, all I can say is LOL

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Hmm. There must be a graph out there that shows the amount of smartphones and tablets sold prior to and after Apple's release of the iPhone and iPad. Once you see that graph you'll change your mind.

No I won't because I know it's not true. Not sure how old you are but I was around before the iPhone and iPad were released.
 
No reason to feel sad for me, not agreeing with someone doesn't mean to don't comprehend what they are saying....as for the "intellectual" comment, all I can say is LOL

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No I won't because I know it's not true. Not sure how old you are but I was around before the iPhone and iPad were released.

As was I. I know for a fact sales are different obviously we also have to factor population growth.
 
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