Enable TRIM BEFORE clean install of OS X El Capitan

Discussion in 'OS X El Capitan (10.11)' started by iceman4321, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. iceman4321 macrumors newbie

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    Oct 5, 2015
    #1
    hi guys - I have a Samsung SSD 850 EVO ready to replace my HDD in my old MBP (early 2009) however wanted to check how to enable TRIM before I install the OS ElCap on it as I rather not write anything to it without TRIM enabled first :)

    I have a USB to SATA cable that I plan to use to clean install the OS on my SSD and then open my MBP, replace my HDD with the SSD.

    Had a quick look at terminal and tried "trimforce enable" does seem to popup the y/n confirmation question (I quit by setting it to N for now). I am not sure if I should run this and set to "y" first (assume this will have no effect on my HDD) and then try to install ElCap on my SSD?

    So what is the sequence of steps to proceed:
    1) trimforce enable + reboot
    2) plug the SSD in via my USB / SATA cable
    3) Install OS El Capitan - I have the file downloaded from app store for OS install
    4) Open MBP and replace HDD with SSD

    Will this work OR do I need to run (1) AFTER I do (2)?

    Thoughts for a newbie?

    cheers all!
     
  2. randomgeeza macrumors regular

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    #2
    TBH I would enable it after the install... Today's SSD's are not that reliant on TRIM... And as far as I understand it, anything deleted or trashed on the SSD prior to the install will be trimmed after, once you enable the function.

    I read somewhere, that you can, if you wanted, enable TRIM once in a while to do 'it's thing' and then disable it again.

    Another thing you might want to note, Samsung do recommend not using TRIM on their EVO series as it can lead to unexpected results. Although, I have it enabled on my older MBP 17 (mid2009).

    YMMV, and really you need to decide what you feel is right for your circumstances and setup.

    Good luck.
     
  3. hwojtek macrumors 6502a

    hwojtek

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    #3
    1. TRIM will not work over USB.
    2. Absolutely zero point in force-enabling TRIM (see 1) before installing. The SSD will be just as good if you enable TRIM once El Capitan is installed as Apple intended.
     
  4. Hitrate macrumors regular

    Hitrate

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    #4
    would u recommend enabling it? (i have the exact same hdd but already installed it and running on latest cabitan beta)
     
  5. KALLT macrumors 601

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    Sep 23, 2008
    #5
    TRIM is not going to have such an impact in a short timespan, it’s a minuscule difference that you won’t ever notice and that will not bring you any advantages. If you’re doing this to maximise the lifespan of your SSD: this undertaking will not make the slightest difference. Your SSD is new and empty, the installer will simply copy the system files. SSDs still have the usual garbage collection and although it’s true that TRIM will make garbage collection more efficient and result in fewer write operations over a certain timespan, this will barely matter here. Just install the system, boot, turn on TRIM and reboot.

    You can enable it whenever you want and I see no reason why you shouldn’t. It’s always good to have.
     
  6. Lolito macrumors 6502

    Lolito

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    #6
    As a raid user, I would personally recommend not to use it. I enabled it after doing the raid, and I had like one crash per week, and before the raid and enebling trim I did not have the issue. Now on el capitan, i did not enable trim, the system seems very very stable so far, so i don't plan on enabling it just yet, I think it will work better without it, using RAID.
     
  7. hwojtek macrumors 6502a

    hwojtek

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    #7
    It's a well known issue with TRIM and RAID. And yes, for a single, non-RAID drive I'd switch TRIM on and never even care what it does if it does anything.
     
  8. iceman4321 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 5, 2015
    #8
    Thanks everyone! I appreciate that TRIM might not make *that* much of a difference, however looking at this video on YouTube, I'd rather help the garbage collection as much as possible!

    Skip to 1min 10seconds -



    Given TRIM will not work over USB (any idea why?) and assuming I am adamant about enabling it before installing the OS - will the following work?

    1) Use Diskmakerx to create bootable USB with El Cap
    2) replace HDD with SSD in MBP
    3) Boot Mac with USB, fire up terminal, mount SSD and enable TRIM
    4) Install El Cap from USB

    ........
    given I am a newbie, will (3) actually work? e.g. can I fire up Terminal when booting from a El Cap USB drive? and can I run trimforce enable on the mounted SSD?

    Thanks all.... I appreciate the input so far, but I'd rather enable TRIM from the get go. I really feel there must be a way to do this by just mounting the drive somehow so I see "TRIM Support = Yes".


    cheerio! :)
     
  9. KALLT, Oct 6, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015

    KALLT macrumors 601

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    #9
    Have you understood how this works? It is the OS that uses TRIM when it deletes files. That means that your OS must have that function enabled when it boots, which isn’t the case here. Your drive is pristine and has garbage collection. There isn’t that much room for wasting write operations when you just enable it soon after the first boot. Just install the OS, boot, open a Terminal window as soon as you can and reboot.

    The only solution I can think of is installing the system on another partition or drive, booting from it, enabling TRIM and then copying that entire install to your new SSD. Then it should boot with TRIM enabled. That’s hypothetical though, you’d have to test it yourself. The only problem is that you will not have a Recovery OS, so it’s not a preferable solution. All in all this is rather theoretical and there is no assurance that it all works out.
     
  10. Hitrate macrumors regular

    Hitrate

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    #10
    I’ve decided not to enable TRIM after further research. Running latest os x with a 500gig evo 850.
     
  11. iceman4321 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 5, 2015
    #11
    @KALLT thanks. I will just clean install and then enable TRIM soon as I can.

    @Hitrate Care to expand why? Anything we are missing here? do you think it has an adverse impact of any sort? cheers
     
  12. Max(IT) Suspended

    Max(IT)

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    #12
    I strongly recommend to enable TRIM after a clean install.
     
  13. coz2001 macrumors newbie

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    Oct 31, 2011
    #13
    I did a clean install from yosemite to el capitan with trim enabled and it did get reset back to off/disabled so you wouldn't have any choice than enable after the clean install.
     
  14. iceman4321 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Oct 5, 2015
    #14
    @coz2001 - thanks for the note! much appreciated, going to enable it after install :)

    I am not just pondering on the best way to install Ubuntu & Windows i.e. triple boot ... will refit still work on el cap etc. probably need another thread for that !

    cheers :)
     
  15. heckofagator macrumors newbie

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    #15
  16. uajafd macrumors newbie

    uajafd

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    #16
    There is absolutely no point in enabling TRIM before installing OS X on a clean drive. Enabling it means actually copying a kernel extension (a driver) to a loadable location. You lose that if you wipe clean and reinstall, and guess what, the installer runs without TRIM anyway because it's a separate system with its own set of drivers.
     
  17. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #17
    That article is referring to a bug in Linux and has nothing to do with OS X. Give this a read. It is perfectly safe to enable TRIM under El Capitan on those drives.
     
  18. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    #18
    A +1 on the above post. I have 5 SSDs mounted in my Mac Pro, all are Samsungs. An SM951, 1 840 Pro, 2 840 Evos and a Series 840. TRIM is and has been enabled since I installed my first SSD more than 3 years ago. IMHO, using TRIM is a must.

    Lou
     
  19. xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    Oct 21, 2009
    #19
    Honestly, TRIM is not really worth it. Take a look at the benchmarks. It doesn't help THAT MUCH. I have been running without TRIM for YEARS and have had no issues. Even when filling my drive to 99% full constantly.
     
  20. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #20
    TRIM won't really make the drive much faster now, but it definitely will prevent repeated writes to the drive from slowing it down. There are quite a few posts on here from members who never used TRIM and the drive slowed, then after enabling TRIM and TRIMing unused blocks on the drive, performance was back like brand new.
     
  21. xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Even the benchmarks of the TRIM Enabler program shows VERY LITTLE amount of difference. It is not worth the hassle. Just because TRIM is enabled, doesn't mean the drive is immune to slowdowns. I have it on my Windows 7 install and it slows down.
     
  22. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #22
    I am not saying TRIM speeds up the drive. What I am saying is that without TRIM, over time some drives will begin to have much slower write speeds. Having TRIM enabled prevents this.

    I'm not sure what you mean by hassle? With the latest Yosemite and now El Capitan all you do is enter the command "sudo trimforce enable" in Terminal and you are done. No hassle at all and no third party apps like TRIM Enabler are needed.
     
  23. xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    Oct 21, 2009
    #23
    The hassle is, some SSDs are buggy (even the Samsung suffered from this) where TRIM would delete the wrong data. We had this happen to a few OCZ drives too. TRIM offers very little benefit and can be a hassle when it deletes wrong data.
     
  24. LexS macrumors newbie

    LexS

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    Nov 18, 2015
    #24
    _________>>>
    I strongly advise against the Trim command. It may corrupt files on the SSD. GarbageControl is very good on modern SSDs and can be helped by leaving more free space on the SSD. There are even SSDs blocked in the Linux kernel:
    http://www.howtogeek.com/222077/how-to-enable-trim-for-third-party-ssds-on-mac-os-x/
    The reason that Apple warns against the use of the trimforce command is not for nothing. Apple has their own controllers inside their SSDs. Your Samsung is even in the list thus it would not activate Trim.
     
  25. chrfr macrumors 603

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    Jul 11, 2009
    #25
    Again, no, Apple does not have their own SSD controllers, and the bug with TRIM in SSDs on Linux is a result of a bug in the Linux kernel. https://blog.algolia.com/when-solid-state-drives-are-not-that-solid/
     

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