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However, the major difference is (also alluded in the previous post) whether the common people have access to opposing views (open internet, etc) and/or the government isn’t a single party with no opposition. The US for example have media from each extreme of the political spectrum and everything in between with people having unhindered access to any. The political parties couldn’t be more polarizing. You just can’t equate places where debates and opposition are commonly presented with the political state and the propaganda pushed by the likes of China.

You are of course free to express opposing views in China. You'll only get sent to happy fun camp (in any nation) if you start going on about "down with the government". Trying to take down the government in China would go about as well as doing the same in the USA or a developed nation. Having access to outside influence doesn't stop it, in fact, with outside internet access cut off there is a far higher chance of a homegrown movement for change in China that can't be implicated as a movement funded by a oppressive, imperialistic, enemy nation.
 
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You can't be 100% communist and have billionaires nor a middle class. That completely flies in the face of what communism is. If you want a communist nation, all people are equal. Be it equally poor or equally rich as it is dependent on the output of the nation and not the individual.

And yes, a president(of any country) is an elected dictator of sorts. There are checks on that person's power, but they are still a dictator and you are voting for this person that can overrule the equivalent of a parliament. In a democracy, you have multiple political parties representing the people and voting on issues. You may have one dominant party and this will have a leader, however, that leader can be kicked out by their own party if they are crap at the job.
China adheres to "Xi Jinping Thought". But Xi is not strictly communist and decided he could be president for life when he grabbed power. So you are correct, you can't have billionaires in a purely communist society, but you can have a middle class. In pure communism each is paid according to abilities and needs.

As far as America and the POTUS being a dictator, not even close and that analogy is not correct about being an elected dictator.
Bush said, "It would be a lot easier if I was a dictator".
#45 found that Congress and SCOTUS has him constrained.

The POTUS is not like the president of China at all.
 
Yeah the American natives had a blast throughout history of the last few hundred years.

Don't forget the brown people with oil, black people, Japanese people during WW2. No country has clean hands, but it is not outsiders that'll change that. The views in the USA have changed from the 50s, 60s, 70s..., the views of the people in China will change too.

You have over 300m middle class in China that can afford to send their kids to the best schools, those kids are coming back and wanting to access games and social media they used in the west. People are openly getting annoyed with the firewall in China, things will change by grassroots movements and not by external interference.
 
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From what I can see, Apple very much cares about human rights but also doesn't try to impose their definition of human rights on other nations. You can't go all imperial on other countries and tell them what they are doing is wrong, but you can slowly worm you way into the mind set of the population that they should think about these things and then you achieve a grassroots change.
It sounds to me that you've taken 4 lines to say what I said in one?

If they sold/manufactured only $1M worth of equipment in that country, I suspect their outlook would be different.
 
China adheres to "Xi Jinping Thought". But Xi is not strictly communist and decided he could be president for life when he grabbed power. So you are correct, you can't have billionaires in a purely communist society, but you can have a middle class. In pure communism each is paid according to abilities and needs.

As far as America and the POTUS being a dictator, not even close and that analogy is not correct about being an elected dictator.
Bush said, "It would be a lot easier if I was a dictator".
#45 found that Congress and SCOTUS has him constrained.

The POTUS is not like the president of China at all.

In a communist state each person is paid an equal share of the state's income, you couldn't have a middle class or poor as everyone has a job of equal value or that income is derived by a basic income and automation. A dustman is just as critical to society as a doctor. You do however have situations where time in the job is rewarded, so you can earn a little extra by being loyal to one particular factory for many years. In the end, the system is designed to have wealth equally distributed and anyone earning significantly more than another would be under a lot of scrutiny. It certainly doesn't support a ruling class and billionaires. We only have fictional examples of communism represented franchises like Star Trek, and fewer real-world examples such as Russia pre Stalin where they were actively trying to achieve it until that nutcase corrupted it.

As for the US president, the concept is far closer to the Chinese president than an elected parliament with opposition parties like we have in Europe. So aye, the US president at least appears to be an elected dictator for 4-8 years that can make whatever decisions he/she may wish to make.
 
It sounds to me that you've taken 4 lines to say what I said in one?

If they sold/manufactured only $1M worth of equipment in that country, I suspect their outlook would be different.

You are saying something vastly different. If Apple sell $1m or $1t in a country they would still push their views (as that is their selling point), but they would do it in a way that respects the local values. A fundamental human right to me is free healthcare/medicine/care, that doesn't mean I am going refuse to sell to the USA until they respect human rights.
 
You are saying something vastly different. If Apple sell $1m or $1t in a country they would still push their views (as that is their selling point), but they would do it in a way that respects the local values. A fundamental human right to me is free healthcare/medicine/care, that doesn't mean I am going refuse to sell to the USA until they respect human rights.
I promise you, if Apple have little presence in a particular market they will do less to meet those requiremtns that would be expected of them in the US. Seems a tad naive to expect otherwise.
I'd be surprised if the workers in non US countries are made to work to the same standards as domestic workers do for example.
 
It is possible to do something about it. China is not the prime example here, but as long as there have been wireless communication methods, dictators have not allowed citizens to have free access to them.

Even today, Middle East countries are very difficult when it comes to getting radio licences. Frequency bands in free use (ISM) in other countries require licences, and obtaining those licences may be very bureaucratic. In those countries you may need to use one or two generations old WiFi equipment because newer equipment has not made through the bureaucratic jungle.

Or how about North Korea? Freedom House states that unde North Korean law: "listening to unauthorised foreign broadcasts and possessing dissident publications are considered 'crimes against the state' that carry serious punishments, including hard labour, prison sentences, and the death penalty". Owning (or smuggling) a Starlink transceiver does not seem to be good for your health.

Is it easy to detect someone with a Starlink antenna, though?

My understanding is that they're using a directed signal, so you'd need to intentionally fly between the antenna and the satellite... which means the government already has some idea of where this antenna is placed.

And both the antenna and satellite can move, so it seems difficult to have a suspicion of where one is, then test by plane, then come get it on the ground. Might be possible to rig the antenna to a camera and telescope or something to look for planes in the area of the sky where the antenna is about to try communicating, and then just not send the signal and so not give itself away.
 
Is it easy to detect someone with a Starlink antenna, though?

My understanding is that they're using a directed signal, so you'd need to intentionally fly between the antenna and the satellite... which means the government already has some idea of where this antenna is placed.

And both the antenna and satellite can move, so it seems difficult to have a suspicion of where one is, then test by plane, then come get it on the ground. Might be possible to rig the antenna to a camera and telescope or something to look for planes in the area of the sky where the antenna is about to try communicating, and then just not send the signal and so not give itself away.

They don't need to detect the satellite, they just need to rent the BBC's TV licence avoidance scanning vans and drive them about random streets to put the fear in. Or rely on neighbours ratting each other out for putting an unsightly dish on the roof.
 
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[...] Now if the government mandated Apple remove them, they would have to follow the law,
No, they wouldn't. Which law? A law by a dictatorship?
The only reason why Apple complies with these "laws" is that otherwise the CCP will shut down their factories. Doesn't look like such a good deal now, does it, Tim?
 
You can't be 100% communist and have billionaires nor a middle class. That completely flies in the face of what communism is.
You can if you're CCP. CCP defines their policy as "Chinese Style Communism" and CCP is always right, because they can't be wrong. So if you're CCP then you're communist. Anyone who said otherwise are the "enemy of people" and will be spammed by NMSLses.
 
You can if you're CCP. CCP defines their policy as "Chinese Style Communism" and CCP is always right, because they can't be wrong. So if you're CCP then you're communist. Anyone who said otherwise are the "enemy of people" and will be spammed by NMSLses.
A dictator can also call himself the prime minister of the peoples republic. That doesn't make it a democracy.
 
A dictator can also call himself the prime minister of the peoples republic. That doesn't make it a democracy.

It’s an oppressive regime all around. If one party creep on the top dies or needs to be removed or doesn’t capture enough Uighur they’ll have no problems finding another one.
 
How Parler and Gab work:

1 make lots of trolling and hate speech grifting on main stream platforms

2 tell everyone you are being censored for being an MF

3 tell everyone to join you on the Nazi platforms

4 the same Nazi platforms who paid you to play a victim after being an MF

5 then those Nazi platforms collect the data from your followers and sell the data to private intelligence companies

censorship is censorship. Apple/Google don't like whats going on Parlor, China doesn't like whats going on Facebook and Signal. If its not illegal, its censorhsip.
 
You’re not making sense. If a human you know tells you a restaurant is great and you go there and it sucks then you can tell your friend they are dumb.

On social all these pages are full of garbage fake reviews, fake followers, fake likes. You know this very well so don’t play dumb.

Restaurants are even giving fake reviews to each other to kill each other’s business. That’s impossible to do with natural organic communication.
You got solid points here man... this mass communications tech has amplified exponentially all that fakeness. People “like” a restaurant because it is in their best interest to like it as it will translate to free meals, celebrity lifestyle and hefty pays if the person is “influencer” enough.
Same for trashing restaurant... or car brand, or vacation place, or “having a Diet Coke today at my chalet in the Caribbeans, the good life”.

The end of dictatorships would be good, but has to be home grown movements. Regards to communism, when that does come it'll be lovely. China is not communist; communism doesn't support billionaires, a middle class that is larger than the population of the USA, private business, and dictatorships.

If China where communist then their entire population would be equally wealthy with no prospect for areas of extreme poverty and extreme wealth.

China is more akin to the USA, except in the USA they can vote in a different dictator every four years from a choice of two.
Don’t know, I do like the premise of what it wants to be, however I think it doesn’t really work in practice. Maybe communism is not China or more socially inclined EU countries, granted, but would North Korea be a proper example? Everybody seems equally poor there.

Besides, I think the human brain thrives in challenges, failures and rewards... heck there wouldn’t be any sort of addictive behavior were that not the case. A society that is built without rewards I find it counter to human nature... work hard or work nothing, the outcome for you will be the same? Then why going out of the way, altruism? Maybe, but maybe not enough of a constant motivator.
Or it will find its way and naturally some capitalism, meritocracy, etc will breed on its own as people will start rewarding and looking towards the ones that are outputting the most or somehow being more valuable for said “all is equal” society.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$. It's Simple. Apple is the most valuable company, and being American it would be a political disaster to block their service, especially with how much they support the Chinese economy.
That would be both valuable and American right? I’m assuming Signal is also American.

It's pretty terrible of them actually and someday they will learn you can't treat people like that, hopefully not too far into the future.
Also you say that but just remember what Snowdon revealed about the US authorities. Sort of like. You can have your 'freedom', but we're going to monitor it.
When we don't like what we see we'll take you to a foreign country and deal with you there.
Fair point. That has to somehow stop. And the worst part is that Snowden’s take was proven to be accurate, the state is doing some illegal activity, yet being charged for espionage is so grave that it doesn’t even matter if what you found turned out to save lives or whatever, it still criminal and don’t even go through the proper judicial system. I find it appalling and a complete deterrent for people to come forward to whistleblow nasty things the state might be doing, because no matter what you go down without defense.
And a potential pardon that some presidents might have alluded to? I think they just don’t because they know there’s dirt on all of them. Hypocrites.
 
You can't be 100% communist and have billionaires nor a middle class. That completely flies in the face of what communism is. If you want a communist nation, all people are equal. Be it equally poor or equally rich as it is dependent on the output of the nation and not the individual.

And yes, a president(of any country) is an elected dictator of sorts. There are checks on that person's power, but they are still a dictator and you are voting for this person that can overrule the equivalent of a parliament. In a democracy, you have multiple political parties representing the people and voting on issues. You may have one dominant party and this will have a leader, however, that leader can be kicked out by their own party if they are crap at the job.
You absolutely can the delusion that communist means all are equally poor or rich is just that, a delusion.

And no, an elected American president is not a dictator. They cannot completely overrule congress, executive actions can be challenged and unlike in a dictatorship, they have been overruled ALOT.
 
They don't need to detect the satellite, they just need to rent the BBC's TV licence avoidance scanning vans and drive them about random streets to put the fear in. Or rely on neighbours ratting each other out for putting an unsightly dish on the roof.
The dish is mobile and need not be on the roof - it can be placed anywhere with a view of the sky. I see no reason it couldn't be camoflaged to be harder to see.

Historically, the BBC vans worked by looking for radiation given off by TV screens. These days, they're listening for the sounds of TV shows that are currently being broadcast (so that they can differentiate between people receiving live broadcasts vs people just watching random videos on YouTube.) I'm not sure this would work as well for determining if people were accessing the open internet or not (although I suppose China can pick specific content to watch for and go around looking for people specifically listening to it... then it doesn't really matter how the person has access to the material, China can still detect that they have it...)
 
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