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ENRON Ken Lay found dead in Aspen CO

dmw007 said:
Sadly, you are probably right. :( :rolleyes:
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Maybe you are right. We will have to wait to see the impact of his hiding of "family" assets - when he was claiming that he could not afford his legal bills. Glad that he was able to vacation in Aspen in order for him to have his heart attack, at a place that many of us could only dream of.

I wonder if I could afford a unit in his condo building that he was able to hide till now. I would love to hear from those he cheated from any real retirement benefits. Or the millions that lost their life savings over his lies.

If he is innocent of the charges that he faced on earth, then I truly hope he is happy in heaven. But if he is no lower than "the money changers in the Temple", I do hope that he is "cast out".
 
Well he was certainly rich enough to buy a faked death, but I suppose
it's probably true.

Now if he attempted to bargain with certain authorities to tell them what
Bush and Cheney's ties were to Enron, that may have done him in.

Don't know but it's all highly suspicious.
 
Too bad he died. He should have faced the five deaths while every person he screwed over watched in the audience.
 
Sun Baked said:
Happens time and again.

A fast rising stock is a star, and employees want to become rich with all their eggs in one basket.

But companies crash all the times wiping out single stock retirement plans. Enron wasn't the first or last to wipe out the employee millionaires with this type of plan -- though it seems to happen a lot more often with the stock option millionaires.

A retirement fund built like Enrons is nothing but a supremely bad idea, even if it makes for some happy employees for 10-20 years.
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If I remember correctly, it's not that simple. There are a number of large differences between Enron and other companies with stocks wiped out. Losing money in a single stock is like accidentally choking to death. Enron strangled them. They flat out lied about the financials, encouraged employees to purchase the stock while they sold theirs, and locked them down from selling the stock after all the bad news started coming out, so the employees were forced to just watch their life savings drop. Don't compare that to a run of the mill crappy stock.
 
itcheroni said:
If I remember correctly, it's not that simple. There are a number of large differences between Enron and other companies with stocks wiped out. Losing money in a single stock is like accidentally choking to death. Enron strangled them. They flat out lied about the financials, encouraged employees to purchase the stock while they sold theirs, and locked them down from selling the stock after all the bad news started coming out, so the employees were forced to just watch their life savings drop. Don't compare that to a run of the mill crappy stock.
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Something similar happened when McKesson (pharmaceuticals distribution and dispensing machines) bought HBO & Company (healthcare software).

HBO & Company had been asking customers to sign letters of intent to buy various products. The salesperson put it like "Oh no, you're not buying anything--it's like a wish list." They managed to put all these wish lists in assets like "Potential future sales" or something screwy like that. (They did this with my boss at the hospital in the mid-1990s.)

When McKesson bought the company in 1999, HBOC was worth $5 bn on paper and McKesson $25 bn. Their stock price was hovering around $77 per share.

In 1999, I was also going to work for the company on the same software I'd managed at the hospital. A week before I started, it was all revealed. The stock went immediately from $77 per share to fewer than $10. The only pension plan was corporate stock.

People who had worked for McKesson for 35-40 years suddenly had very little in retirement money, just because of Charlie McCall and friends.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Imagined headline, not yet seen:

KEN LAY DEAD
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Eye catching! ;)

I personally know of two folks who were wiped out. Granted they should not have put all their eggs in one basket, but this was a fraud case and not normal market reactions.

May he not rest in peace for all those lives that he was responsible for ruining.
 
bousozoku said:
Something similar happened when McKesson (pharmaceuticals distribution and dispensing machines) bought HBO & Company (healthcare software).
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Looking at the Enron thing, 60% of the 401(k) was in company stock -- and there were 18 investing options for the employees.

But when the stock goes up 1400% in a decade, it's doubtful most people will choose the other slower growing options. 3-5% a year is painfully small compared to massive double/triple digit gains.

There was also supposed to have been an annuity company hammering the employees to buy annuities (something Lay took advantage of) to convert and lock in their 401(k) gains -- few took advantage of this sales pitch.
 
I heard today that under current law Lay's case is very likely to be vacated.

I can't explain this, but Forbes magazine puts it in perspective.

http://www.forbes.com/work/management/2006/07/05/lay_cheats_justice_cz_ch_0705laycheats.html

"With his death from a massive heart attack today, Ken Lay cheated justice. And then some. Not only will the Enron founder not end his days in prison, but according to legal precedent, his entire case will be erased from the records.

That means that, in legal terms at least, Lay was never convicted, tried or even indicted for Enron misdeeds.

For Lay's estate, and his widow Linda, the positive implication of this grim day is that the government now has no means to collect on its forfeiture claim against Lay for $43.5 million.

It's hard to believe, but the case law on this point is crystal clear, says Peter Henning, professor at Wayne State University Law School. "The idea is that you can't punish a dead person. It's not fair," says Henning. "Lay didn't get a chance to go in front of a court of appeals, which he had an absolute legal right to do."


So the ultimate con artist beats the system after all.
 
FFTT said:
I heard today that under current law Lay's case is very likely to be vacated.

I can't explain this, but Forbes magazine puts it in perspective.

http://www.forbes.com/work/management/2006/07/05/lay_cheats_justice_cz_ch_0705laycheats.html

"With his death from a massive heart attack today, Ken Lay cheated justice. And then some. Not only will the Enron founder not end his days in prison, but according to legal precedent, his entire case will be erased from the records.

That means that, in legal terms at least, Lay was never convicted, tried or even indicted for Enron misdeeds.

For Lay's estate, and his widow Linda, the positive implication of this grim day is that the government now has no means to collect on its forfeiture claim against Lay for $43.5 million.

It's hard to believe, but the case law on this point is crystal clear, says Peter Henning, professor at Wayne State University Law School. "The idea is that you can't punish a dead person. It's not fair," says Henning. "Lay didn't get a chance to go in front of a court of appeals, which he had an absolute legal right to do."


So the ultimate con artist beats the system after all.
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Really sad IMO. He lied to the courts about his remaining wealth. He was convicted. It seems wrong that he can escape justice with his IMO, very timely death - that benefits his family.
 
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Dead & Done

If I was anywhere near the funeral I would turn out to celebrate the passing of this greedy & cruel man. What he did to old folk & the poor by destroying their pensions, not only by collapsing stock but by Enron buying smaller companiesm taking over the pension funds then the collapse of the whole empire.

What is stunning is he honestly believe he did nothing wrong & knew nothing of it... if you tell a lie enough (for instance to his family & friends) you will start to believe it & he did believe his own lies.

This planet is better without him. Dont rest is peace Lay.
 
I'm curious too see if there's going to be an open casket!

Here's some more info: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4027259.html


When the criminal case is vacated, so too are the prosecutor's efforts to seize assets from Lay. The government could file motions to seize assets through a civil proceeding, however. That move by the government seems likely, said David Smith, a forfeiture expert with English & Smith in Alexandria, Va., and former deputy chief of the asset forfeiture division of the U.S. Department of Justice.
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