Entertaining discussion about Watch

[Skylitfly]

Had to share this with you guys!

Quite entertaining discussion from "The Verge" comment section.

That guy totally owned him. Makes me even more confident about how much better Watch is compared to competition.

Hope you enjoy.

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Danrarbc Danrarbc
""Only thing"? You make it seem like they just slapped a decal on the casing and called it a day.

The casing is one the easiest things to engineer on a watch. You’re dreaming if you think that "honoring craftsmanship" is high up on the priority list of everybody who impulse-buys a Lambo or a Rolex on a random Sunday stroll down 5th Ave or Rodeo Drive. This is the crowd Apple is targeting. They’re not targeting moderators on luxury timepiece internet message boards."

So what you’re saying is you agree with us. There are people that appreciate these things, and then there are those that buy them just to be seen with them.

filmantopia
Man you’ve really been crapping on the Apple Watch since the beginning. Not only is it going to sell a crap load— it’s going to get stellar reviews and consumer satisfaction, AND largely influence the direction of wearables for all tech companies. People who buy it for whatever price are going to be happy with their purchases. Just deal with that.

Danrarbc Danrarbc
"AND largely influence the direction of wearables for all tech companies"

For that to be true they’d have to be doing something fundamentally different than the others.

filmantopia
I expect the digital communication tools (like drawing and message analysis), method of control without hindering the display with your finger, sprawling and zoomable app launcher (as opposed to a list), focus largely on fashion, force touch ability for contextual menus without clogging screen space, and haptic sensation for subtle and nuanced feedback to all be implemented by competitors in some fashion… All of these features contribute to a fundamental interface paradigm that will make wearables useful enough for the mass market.

jaywin jaywin
Just like the first iPhone. At least this doesn’t have a crappy VGA camera. I guess the battery life is weak point.

Danrarbc Danrarbc
I’m sorry but the drawing gimmick would be laughed at if Samsung did it.

Android Wear displays a small enough amount of information that covering information up is no concern, you don’t just scroll through a long message on a normal basis. And the others don’t have a touch screen.

Google has already said they’ll change their app launching – no it won’t be the same as Apple’s and they already said they’d address that last year.

Because nobody else is focused on fashion already?

You already have contextual actions with long presses on Wear.

And other platforms are also capable of fine control of the vibrations already.

Danrarbc Danrarbc
What we have here is a fundamental difference in opinion of what a wearable is useful for in practice.

Apple’s target interaction time is 10-15 seconds. Google’s is 5.

filmantopia
Every single point you mentioned can be answered with this— it comes down to the fact that Apple carefully refines these features to make them each a delight to use— you can tell they the UX they design is striving for perfection.

Do you think any of the android wear device creators spent countless hours refining the individual haptic sensations on the wrist to determine the right balance of functional vs. organic? It’s not the list of features I’m as concerned about—- it’s the amount of time and care the creators clearly put into making it a delightful user experience down to the tiniest of details.

If you don’t care to discern the difference between a vibration and a electromagnetic haptic sensation, or a force touch vs. a long press, then you’re just not the kind of person who would appreciate functional nuances in a device as personal as a watch.

Apple is a premium brand, for those who can tell a craft beer from bud light, and wouldn’t mind paying more for the difference.

wherewolf123
And this, in one comment, is exactly why Apple is at it’s heart a marketing company. They have convinced people who’ve never used a product that their ability to parrot marketing buzzwords and meaningless points about "delight" makes them a person who appreciates nuance rather than someone who derives their identity from a brand.

They are so, so good at what they do.

peejaybee
For what it’s worth, I think he’s right and you’re wrong. So apple are a marketing company? They don’t really develop products? Surely you can see that’s nonsense.

Things like MagSafe, excellent trackpads, Unibody construction and a myriad others, result in laptops that ARE objectively better than the competition.

Their products last longer.

They are the only company making hardware, firmware and software – that helps.

And they say they spent a year developing how the tap on the wrist feels – I don’t see any reason to disbelieve that when they have all the money and Jony Ive who’s clearly obsessive about design.

Did the wear product designers just throw in an off the shelf vibration buzzer? it does seem so.

As for their marketing, it’s ok. It’s slick, a little dull – tends to just show the products working (videos, advertisements etc). For me, it’s all about the products.

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Shots fired. Discus.

 

[samiznaetekto]

Thus far, it's all blah-blah-blah. Unlike other smartwatches, #⌚️ hasn't been real-life tested by actual users, millions of users. Millions of man-years of actual use could paint a totally different picture than a PR hype. The forumz might turn completely upside down when people finally get to use #⌚️. We'll see pretty soon. It's gonna be really interesting. Can't wait.

 

[itsGrant]

Thus far, it's all blah-blah-blah. Unlike other smartwatches, #⌚️ hasn't been real-life tested by actual users, millions of users. Millions of man-years of actual use could paint a totally different picture than a PR hype. The forumz might turn completely upside down when people finally get to use #⌚️. We'll see pretty soon. It's gonna be really interesting. Can't wait.

I too think this will be an interesting launch/post-launch. Excited to see what it will actually be like to live with the Watch instead of the Pebble that I use now.

 

[Pinksteady]

Thus far, it's all blah-blah-blah. Unlike other smartwatches, #⌚️ hasn't been real-life tested by actual users, millions of users. Millions of man-years of actual use could paint a totally different picture than a PR hype. The forumz might turn completely upside down when people finally get to use #⌚️. We'll see pretty soon. It's gonna be really interesting. Can't wait.

It has been really interesting to see how many people have engaged in debate about how better the haptic engine is, for example, over a normal vibration, despite having never used it.

 

[Skylitfly]

Thus far, it's all blah-blah-blah. Unlike other smartwatches, #⌚️ hasn't been real-life tested by actual users, millions of users. Millions of man-years of actual use could paint a totally different picture than a PR hype. The forumz might turn completely upside down when people finally get to use #⌚️. We'll see pretty soon. It's gonna be really interesting. Can't wait.

Well. You're technically right. But I'm trusting to Apple's trackrecord of getting it right. Thought I might be wrong.

We will see.

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It has been really interesting to see how many people have engaged in debate about how better the haptic engine is, for example, over a normal vibration, despite having never used it.

We will find it out soon. But considering the positive reviews about the haptic engine on 13" rMBP's Force Touch trackpad I'm quite excited.

 

[samiznaetekto]

> I'm trusting to Apple's trackrecord of getting it right.

Cook has no track record yet of getting a new product category right. We'll see. (Personally, I think it'll flop. Very hard.)

> considering the positive reviews about the haptic engine on 13" rMBP's Force Touch trackpad I'm quite excited.

Haptic engine on rmbp is different from taptic engine on #⌚️ in that the former only provides feedback when you're interacting with the trackpad, while the latter literally taps your wrist unexpectedly, at random moments. It'll be very annoying if you allow too many notifications. Tap-tap!!! WTF is that? Oh, somebody liked your pic on instagram. Tap-tap!!! (rinse-repeat)

I think tapping will be more annoying than normal vibration for unexpected, unwanted notifications, because it gets your attention so persistently that it's hard to ignore it.

 

[Skylitfly]

> I'm trusting to Apple's trackrecord of getting it right.

Cook has no track record yet of getting a new product category right. We'll see. (Personally, I think it'll flop. Very hard.

Cook doesn't need trackrecord. It's Apple's trackrecord. The product is thought out, considered, designed and built by Apple's design and engineering teams mainly. Not alone by TimCook.

 

[Pinksteady]

> I'm trusting to Apple's trackrecord of getting it right.

Cook has no track record yet of getting a new product category right. We'll see. (Personally, I think it'll flop. Very hard.)

While I optimistically disagree with you, we have no way of knowing. One thing's for sure - if it does 'flop', as you say, it will be a very interesting time for Apple and its observers.

Personally I think the sheer weight of Apple in the market, their brand and mass-market appeal, the sheer quality of the physical product, and its apparent maturity in so many areas before even launching (e.g. 3rd party app support), says that a 'flop' is far from a sure thing at this stage.

Out of interest, what makes you think it will be a flop (and how do you define that)?

 

[Arran]

The product is thought out, considered, designed and built by Apple's design and engineering teams mainly.

Yes, but Jobs was the design team's customer. A tough customer with a lot of clout.

From what I understand, he prevented a lot of half-baked product features and even entire products from going out the door.

Who's fulfilling that role now?

 

[samiznaetekto]

>Personally I think the sheer weight of Apple in the market, their brand and mass-market appeal, the sheer quality of the physical product, and its apparent maturity in so many areas before even launching (e.g. 3rd party app support), says that a 'flop' is far from a sure thing at this stage.

Market weight, brand, appeal, quality, etc. have no relevance when people don't have a genuine need for a new product. People do need smartphones and tablets or laptops, most people these days have one. So, market weight, etc. play a significant role here. Smartwatch? Not so much. The interest in it in general public is way, way too small. Smartwatch does not fulfill any essential role in people's lives like smartphone does. It's an expensive Bluetooth auxiliary 1.5" screen on a strap for your iPhone. Not many people are going to throw $400+ at it just like nothing.

As a user of a smartwatch of 6 months, I can tell you that after the honeymoon is over (~1mo.), the smartwatch is not as exciting thing as it seemed to be. The fact that it doesn't display time (easily readable at any angle and at any time, without performing any gestures or pressing buttons) is the major annoyance that made me return back to my analog watch and wear the smartwatch only when I need to monitor specific things (like altitude and coords on a hike, or maps when walking in unfamiliar city).

#⌚️ will flop because general public has no need for smartwatches. (at least, for $400+ ones)

 

[Skylitfly]

Yes, but Jobs was the design team's customer. A tough customer with a lot of clout.

From what I understand, he prevented a lot of half-baked product features and even entire products from going out the door.

Who's fulfilling that role now?

I'm quite sure Cook is doing that fine. Hard to say yet.

We will see that soon enough.

 

[samiznaetekto]

Cook doesn't need trackrecord. It's Apple's trackrecord. The product is thought out, considered, designed and built by Apple's design and engineering teams mainly. Not alone by TimCook.

Correct. But it's the 1st major new product category being introduced without Steve Jobs. It cannot be projected from prior Apple's track record which was accumulated while SJ was alive and introducing new categories.

 

[Pinksteady]

>Personally I think the sheer weight of Apple in the market, their brand and mass-market appeal, the sheer quality of the physical product, and its apparent maturity in so many areas before even launching (e.g. 3rd party app support), says that a 'flop' is far from a sure thing at this stage.

Market weight, brand, appeal, quality, etc. have no relevance when people don't have a genuine need for a new product. People do need smartphones and tablets or laptops, most people these days have one. So, market weight, etc. play a significant role here. Smartwatch? Not so much. The interest in it in general public is way, way too small. Smartwatch does not fulfill any essential role in people's lives like smartphone does. It's an expensive Bluetooth auxiliary 1.5" screen on a strap for your iPhone. Not many people are going to throw $400+ at it just like nothing.

As a user of a smartwatch of 6 months, I can tell you that after the honeymoon is over (~1mo.), the smartwatch is not as exciting thing as it seemed to be. The fact that it doesn't display time (easily readable at any angle and at any time, without performing any gestures or pressing buttons) is the major annoyance that made me return back to my analog watch and wear the smartwatch only when I need to monitor specific things (like altitude and coords on a hike, or maps when walking in unfamiliar city).

#⌚️ will flop because general public has no need for smartwatches. (at least, for $400+ ones)

Hmm no, I don't buy that argument. A million people said the first iPhone would flop because it wouldn't work without a keyboard. The same happened with the iPad because people couldn't see a need for it and thought it was just a 'big iPhone'. While I completely agree that the watch seems to be a problem searching for a solution, that fact alone doesn't mean it will flop. I'd be careful staking your position that a new product will flop because things are fine the way they are.

To your second point, comparisons to existing smartwatches has to be done with a grain of salt because a) no-one has actually used the apple watch yet and b) it reportedly does a whole lot more than the current gen. Also, and you dismiss this aspect but I feel it is very important (if the THE most important aspect), the Apple Watch recognises the fashion element of a watch purchase. Until now, the competitors provided a single watch, seeing it purely as a gadget, whereas Apple have clearly understood the fickle nature of the watch as an optional piece of jewellery. I think the 'excitement' factor you mention will be very different with the Apple Watch.

But I have no answers. I do think it is far from a sure thing that it will fail though, and I think given the conditions, to dismiss it outright is foolish. I could be wrong though and it totally flops!!

 

[Multiverse223]

>Personally I think the sheer weight of Apple in the market, their brand and mass-market appeal, the sheer quality of the physical product, and its apparent maturity in so many areas before even launching (e.g. 3rd party app support), says that a 'flop' is far from a sure thing at this stage.

Market weight, brand, appeal, quality, etc. have no relevance when people don't have a genuine need for a new product. People do need smartphones and tablets or laptops, most people these days have one. So, market weight, etc. play a significant role here. Smartwatch? Not so much. The interest in it in general public is way, way too small. Smartwatch does not fulfill any essential role in people's lives like smartphone does. It's an expensive Bluetooth auxiliary 1.5" screen on a strap for your iPhone. Not many people are going to throw $400+ at it just like nothing.

As a user of a smartwatch of 6 months, I can tell you that after the honeymoon is over (~1mo.), the smartwatch is not as exciting thing as it seemed to be. The fact that it doesn't display time (easily readable at any angle and at any time, without performing any gestures or pressing buttons) is the major annoyance that made me return back to my analog watch and wear the smartwatch only when I need to monitor specific things (like altitude and coords on a hike, or maps when walking in unfamiliar city).

#⌚️ will flop because general public has no need for smartwatches. (at least, for $400+ ones)

People don't need smartphones, tablets, or computers, unless they use them for work purposes. They offer 98% of users a better life in whatever way they use them, and the other 2% are a better life and necessary for work. Almost everyone does not need them. If a smartwatch offers them a better life in whatever way, it's a viable product. I'm guessing Apple knows public interest. I know for a fact, you do not.

In the future smartwatches could have numerous biosensors which will set them apart from the things you mentioned. Only wearables can track biometrics because only wearables are always attached to the body. That's all there is to it. Please don't say no one needs or wants biosensors, that would make you look like a moron.

 

[sterl320]

Hmm no, I don't buy that argument. A million people said the first iPhone would flop because it wouldn't work without a keyboard. The same happened with the iPad because people couldn't see a need for it and thought it was just a 'big iPhone'. While I completely agree that the watch seems to be a problem searching for a solution, that fact alone doesn't mean it will flop. I'd be careful staking your position that a new product will flop because things are fine the way they are.

To your second point, comparisons to existing smartwatches has to be done with a grain of salt because a) no-one has actually used the apple watch yet and b) it reportedly does a whole lot more than the current gen. Also, and you dismiss this aspect but I feel it is very important (if the THE most important aspect), the Apple Watch recognises the fashion element of a watch purchase. Until now, the competitors provided a single watch, seeing it purely as a gadget, whereas Apple have clearly understood the fickle nature of the watch as an optional piece of jewellery. I think the 'excitement' factor you mention will be very different with the Apple Watch.

But I have no answers. I do think it is far from a sure thing that it will fail though, and I think given the conditions, to dismiss it outright is foolish. I could be wrong though and it totally flops!!

its a good bet you aren't wrong. This is how technology has been for a long time. Entering a new category of tech has always..always...ALWAYS been faced with disdain based on whether its needed or even wanted. But as time went on, because of the early adopters, people found ways and reasons to use it these products, and THAT is why they grew to be as big as they did, & now even seem necessary for everyday life to a lot of people. and then, almost SUDDENLY even, people forgot about those initial arguments & opinions lol.

I'm not sure what a "flop" will consist of. I know it won't sell as much as maybe the iPhone 6, but I don't see it selling any less than a few hundred thousand in its first week alone.

The funny thing is, the general public doesn't see the need for smart watches, but the general public hasn't been properly introduced with it either. All these other smart watches has been around for a while, but I've only seen them advertised in tech-related places by tech-related people. They aren't mainstream at all. Once reviews start popping up, more celebs are seen with it on, & more and more people are walking around with it, buzz & popularity will pick up dramatically. I don't know for sure, but I assume the Apple Watch will be a bit more popular than the pebble & even the moto 360. I mean, the apple watch has the word "Apple" in it.

 

[ninethirty]

I don't think anyone got owned there. The guy had valid points that he maybe didn't describe as well as he could have.

Here's what's going on though. Apple's got a new product, that isn't yet released, and like any Apple product launch, there's people drooling over it, and naysayers. The big difference this time I think is that there isn't near as much interest in this as there was/is with iPhone and iPad.

If it's amazing, word will get out and more people buy them, but it's not going to be as big as the iPhone. Everyone needs a phone. Not everyone needs a watch. I find the notion that people are getting sick of their phones and looking for a way to separate from it, to be absolute nonsense. That's marketing ******** through and through.

Personally I think the User Experience that Apple delivers has been getting weaker and weaker over the last few years. On the outside the Apple Watch looks nicer than the competition, but I think Android Wear looks a lot nicer visually speaking on the software side. As for what the watch does, it doesn't do a single thing I wouldn't have thought of myself if I was making this, and that's a huge part of what disappoints me. I expect a lot more from Apple.

I'll get one, because I work in UX and product design and I need to be familiar with popular devices in order to do my job, but I don't expect to be putting away my Rolex or Panerai anytime soon. I also won't be getting one on day one, which is a first for me and Apple products.

 

[samiznaetekto]

> A million people said the first iPhone would flop because it wouldn't work without a keyboard. The same happened with the iPad because people couldn't see a need for it and thought it was just a 'big iPhone'. While I completely agree that the watch seems to be a problem searching for a solution, that fact alone doesn't mean it will flop.

There's a difference between a genuine need of general population and a perceived issues on using a new product. At the time iPhone was introduced, hundreds of millions of people used their cell phones daily, including not only making phone calls, but managing contacts, sending texts and emails, browsing web (remember WAP?), playing music and games. And they sucked in everything except perhaps phone calls. While people initially doubted if touch screen will be any good for dialing numbers or entering texts, millions and millions of them WANTED something that would not suck in email, texts, web, music, games. iPhone, after overcoming the initial doubts, fulfilled this need of hundreds of millions of general (non-geeky) population. Same with iPad - people used to lug 7-8lbs, 2"-thick laptops just to read email and browse web, iPad fulfilled this need for millions of general population.

#⌚️ fulfills no such need. You can't just make hundreds of millions of non-geek people interested in it no matter what logo is on it and no matter which celebrities wear it. People just don't give a ****.

 

[ninethirty]

That's the thing. I hate to be one of those "This never would have happened if Steve was alive guys," but as soon as he left, and passed, things have not been the same. iOS7 was an absolute mess, visually and functionally, and iOS8 is too. Less bugs, but way too much crap, and the visual design is awful. Same goes for Yosemite. As far as the iPad and iPhone go.. they've just gotten thinner like they always do. TouchID and ApplePay are nice though. Apple Watch is just meh. Not revolutionary and I don't think people here can admit that most people don't care about the Apple Watch. Everyone in my family has an iPhone, and not a single one of them will buy the watch. My friends, who are normally Apple fanatics don't care.

Personally, I don't think Jobs would have let this out the door. Not like this anyway.

I'm quite sure Cook is doing that fine. Hard to say yet.

We will see that soon enough.

 

[Lloydbm41]

Cook doesn't need trackrecord. It's Apple's trackrecord. The product is thought out, considered, designed and built by Apple's design and engineering teams mainly. Not alone by TimCook.

And that IS the difference right there. Steve was involved in the minutiae of all Apple consumer products so HE guided the direction of all decisions. His will... Apple engineers hands.
just saying, I'm not confident in Apple products like I used to be under Steve.

 

[slvrscoobie]

And honestly, Im on the other boat. I didnt like anything Mac until they got on board with the intel chips. Started making things Better rather than just Different.
Im really excited to see how much better the Watch will be than my pebble. I dont know how itll turn out for a lot of people. I have a friend who had a pebble, and it discharged one day, he put it down and didnt pick it up for months. I bet that will happen to a Lot of people. It was cool but took too much charging / adapting to become every day useful.

 

[mightyjabba]

I'm not sure what a "flop" will consist of. I know it won't sell as much as maybe the iPhone 6, but I don't see it selling any less than a few hundred thousand in its first week alone.

Well of course it won't sell as much as the iPhone 6. I hope that's not the metric that people will use to determine whether it's a success or not. It costs more (or at least appears to, since it isn't subsidized by carriers), has fewer functions, and actually requires an iPhone 6 (or 5) to function. So naturally Apple Watch buyers will be a subset of iPhone owners, and probably a relatively small one at that.

I agree that they haven't made a very compelling case for why the Apple Watch is something you need (as opposed to want). I get the impression that they said, "Hey, let's make a watch!" and went from there without necessarily asking whether making a watch was something they really needed to do. That said, I also feel that with the right apps, the watch could be something really extraordinary. It's too early to tell.

 

[ninethirty]

Exactly. It's a solution in search of a problem. Never a great place to start.

Well of course it won't sell as much as the iPhone 6. I hope that's not the metric that people will use to determine whether it's a success or not. It costs more (or at least appears to, since it isn't subsidized by carriers), has fewer functions, and actually requires an iPhone 6 (or 5) to function. So naturally Apple Watch buyers will be a subset of iPhone owners, and probably a relatively small one at that.

I agree that they haven't made a very compelling case for why the Apple Watch is something you need (as opposed to want). I get the impression that they said, "Hey, let's make a watch!" and went from there without necessarily asking whether making a watch was something they really needed to do. That said, I also feel that with the right apps, the watch could be something really extraordinary. It's too early to tell.

 

[Pinksteady]

> A million people said the first iPhone would flop because it wouldn't work without a keyboard. The same happened with the iPad because people couldn't see a need for it and thought it was just a 'big iPhone'. While I completely agree that the watch seems to be a problem searching for a solution, that fact alone doesn't mean it will flop.

There's a difference between a genuine need of general population and a perceived issues on using a new product. At the time iPhone was introduced, hundreds of millions of people used their cell phones daily, including not only making phone calls, but managing contacts, sending texts and emails, browsing web (remember WAP?), playing music and games. And they sucked in everything except perhaps phone calls. While people initially doubted if touch screen will be any good for dialing numbers or entering texts, millions and millions of them WANTED something that would not suck in email, texts, web, music, games. iPhone, after overcoming the initial doubts, fulfilled this need of hundreds of millions of general (non-geeky) population. Same with iPad - people used to lug 7-8lbs, 2"-thick laptops just to read email and browse web, iPad fulfilled this need for millions of general population.

#⌚️ fulfills no such need. You can't just make hundreds of millions of non-geek people interested in it no matter what logo is on it and no matter which celebrities wear it. People just don't give a ****.

View attachment 538934

I just don't think anything you are saying is sufficient to be sure the Apple Watch will be a flop, that's all. You're also ignoring all the reasons why it might *not* be a flop.

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Personally, I don't think Jobs would have let this out the door. Not like this anyway.

Oh dear

 

[Multiverse223]

Exactly. It's a solution in search of a problem. Never a great place to start.

Luckily Apple has imaginative, creative, intelligent people that actually comprehend the product and its future.

 

[ninethirty]

Oh yes.

Oh dear