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Except the product isn't offered for free. Google's control of android comes from licensing Google Play Services and the Android brand. Different companies producing an android fork isn't a competition problem. Every company except Apple putting Google Play Services on top of their own android fork is anticompetitive.
I personally don’t think it’s correct that google are allowed to essentially give their OS away for free
Because it stops a legitimate competitor from emerging against two companies
Unless your in china

And it also means that they a have monopoly on search because of it
At the moment only in china are they not number 1
However I believe the US government are trying to challenge them I believe

Because it makes the smartphone industry for consumers as a consequence
 
I personally don’t think it’s correct that google are allowed to essentially give their OS away for free
Because it stops a legitimate competitor from emerging against two companies
I disagree. Anyone can fork android and make there own android competitor without using any Google services. It greatly reduces the barrier to entry for the market.

Unless your in china

And it also means that they a have monopoly on search because of it
At the moment only in china are they not number 1
However I believe the US government are trying to challenge them I believe

Because it makes the smartphone industry for consumers as a consequence
Again, you're confusing Google Play Services with android. I can make an android-based OS and sell it without Google Search or and other Google service.
 
The fix is:
Stop blocking side loading and allow other AppStores full competitive access at 0 cost.
Again, "let's punish Google by making Apple do exactly what Google already allows for those customers who want those features, taking away the option of a closed ecosystem for the millions of customers who want one." is not a rational response to Google's monopoly.

It's an excuse for tech nerds and regulators with no understanding of what they're regulating to push to force Apple to open up because they've always hated closed ecosystems and hate the fact that many consumers prefer them.
 
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You're moving the goalposts. In our conversation, we were discussing customer choice in operating systems as you clearly described in the following post.
I’m not moving goalposts at all.

In our conversation, we were discussing customer choice in operating systems as you clearly described in the following post. Not compatibility of software and APIs for developers.
…in the following post, which mentions “app ecosystems”.

Why are Google’s Android GrapheneOS part of the same app ecosystem? Because they offer access to the same apps through the same stores. Why the same apps? Because they provide the same APIs. Not mere “compatibility” as you claimed - but the same components.

When talking about third-party developers developing, distributing and monetising apps (as this thread does. It’s literally under the title of a third-party app being unavailable), that’s what matters.

It’s honestly not that hard to understand, and if I didn’t make myself understood (or @Stuwil), I apologise am sorry. But stop the nitpicking on words.

Users choose between Android (including several slightly different variants/GUIs) and iOS.
So do developers. That’ the first and main choice, software - and determines access and availability of the respective app ecosystems. Which is relevant when we’re discussing apps.

Nobody’s says “Oh, there’s five operating systems to choose from.”
No, it’s two - and one of these choice comes in (only slightly different variations or designs).

Again, you're confusing Google Play Services with android
…and Play Services are part of the Android app ecosystems.

I can make an android-based OS and sell it without Google Search or and other Google service.
…and such devices, Android variants without Play Services do not play any commercially relevant role in the U.S. or Europe (not on smartphones anyway).

They’re irrelevant from a perspective of antitrust law, the Epic trial in the U.S. or the Digital Markets App.

Anyone can fork android and make there own android competitor without using any Google services. It greatly reduces the barrier to entry for the market.
Technically, yes. In practice, this will be a niche endeavour - due to lack of third-party applications.
And they’ll remain niche. Why? Chicken and egg.
 
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I disagree. Anyone can fork android and make there own android competitor without using any Google services. It greatly reduces the barrier to entry for the market.


Again, you're confusing Google Play Services with android. I can make an android-based OS and sell it without Google Search or and other Google service.
Do Amazon not do that with kindle tablets and nobody really buys them because you can’t actually get anything for them.

Then why did the us government say to google they can no longer supply Huawei with android or am I mistaken?
Because wasn’t android underneath EMUI
When Huawei was sold in Europe in retail stores
And then because of that the retail stores dropped them because they disappeared in my country
 
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I’m not moving goalposts at all.


…in the following post, which mentions “app ecosystems”.

Why are Google’s Android GrapheneOS part of the same app ecosystem? Because they offer access to the same apps through the same stores. Why the same apps? Because they provide the same APIs. Not mere “compatibility” as you claimed - but the same components.

When talking about third-party developers developing, distributing and monetising apps (as this thread does. It’s literally under the title of a third-party app being unavailable), that’s what matters.

It’s honestly not that hard to understand, and if I didn’t make myself understood (or @Stuwil), I apologise am sorry. But stop the nitpicking on words.

Users choose between Android (including several slightly different variants/GUIs) and iOS.
So do developers. That’ the first and main choice, software - and determines access and availability of the respective app ecosystems. Which is relevant when we’re discussing apps.

Nobody’s says “Oh, there’s five operating systems to choose from.”
No, it’s two - and one of these choice comes in (only slightly different variations or designs).


…and Play Services are part of the Android app ecosystems.


…and such devices, Android variants without Play Services do not play any commercially relevant role in the U.S. or Europe (not on smartphones anyway).

They’re irrelevant from a perspective of antitrust law, the Epic trial in the U.S. or the Digital Markets App.
I quoted you directly. You weren't talking about developers. If you won't stand by what you said, there is no point in continuing. Thanks for your time.
 
Again, "let's punish Google by making Apple do exactly what Google already allows for those customers who want those features, taking away the option of a closed ecosystem for the millions of customers who want one." is not a rational response to Google's monopoly.

It's an excuse for tech nerds and regulators with no understanding of what they're regulating to push to force Apple to open up because they've always hated closed ecosystems and hate the fact that many consumers prefer them.
Nothing is done like Google a. Googles monopoly is completely irrelevant to what’s happening to Apple.

Apple and Google aren’t competing in the AppStore market with each other.

The regulators are aware, they just don’t have the same interest and goal as you believe they have.
 
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What rational people would do: Encourage a third competitor; regulate the monopolist.
What the EU does: Let's regulate Apple to force them to be like the monopolist.
How? Where from?
How do you solve the chicken and egg problem of lack of apps?

By forcing Apple and/or Google to publish and license (for free? Or FRAND) their APIs and system components?

I quoted you directly. You weren't talking about developers. If you won't stand by what you said, there is no point in continuing. Thanks for your time.
Developers are the ones that “make” apps - and sell/monetise them. When I’m talking about lack of ecosystem choice, that of course also applies to developers. I was merely illustrating it from a “consumer” perspective. Not claiming to name exhaustive lists of stakeholders or something.

If all you come up with is nitpicking on words and “but we weren’t talking about this or that”, I agree there’s no point I continuing.
 
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Then why did the us government say to google they can no longer supply Huawei with android or am I mistaken?
Because wasn’t android underneath EMUI
When Huawei was sold in Europe in retail stores
And then because of that the retail stores dropped them because they disappeared in my country
Google was prevented from licensing Google Play Services to Huawei, not android which is open source and available to anyone.
 
Where from?
How do you solve the chicken and egg problem of lack of apps?

By forcing Apple and/or Google to publish and license (for free? Or FRAND) their APIs and system components?
China has given regulators a pretty good playbook should they want to support a third platform that would meaningfully improve competition in the mobile market. And that would actually solve the problem they purport to want to fix, rather than declaring that problem unfixable and instead throwing a bunch of onerous regulations that actually reduces competition and results in worse user experiences for their constituents, fewer features for their constituents, more malware and scams for their constituents, and treating others' intellectual property like it belongs to everyone.
 
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Nothing is done like Google a. Googles monopoly is completely irrelevant to what’s happening to Apple.

Apple and Google aren’t competing in the AppStore market with each other.
None of that is true. For example, in the Epic case here in the US, the court declined to limit the market to iOS.

And it's laughable to suggest Google's monopoly is irrelevant based on how many times you have used the claim of a duopoly to justify actions against Apple over the years.

It is a fix. What do you think it failed to do to say it tried and failed?
Because it did not result in any significant competition despite being available for a decade.
 
Google was prevented from licensing Google Play Services to Huawei, not android which is open source and available to anyone.
But they were also not allowed to update the version of android it was on
That is why the three store dropped them completely from my country
So essentially the US government killed then in the west at that time
So that is why harmony OS now exists on devices
 
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But they were also not allowed to update the version of android it was on
That is why the three store dropped them completely from my country
So essentially the US government killed then in the west at that time
So that is why harmony OS now exists on devices
Not sure how they'd do that since it's open source. Reuters reported the ban did not prevent Huawei from accessing the open source project.

Feel free to provide a link if you find something different.
 
None of that is true. For example, in the Epic case here in the US, the court declined to limit the market to iOS.

And it's laughable to suggest Google's monopoly is irrelevant based on how many times you have used the claim of a duopoly to justify actions against Apple over the years.
You’re likely mistaking me with someone else. I have always maintained that a monopoly isn’t a bad thing. Nor have I cared for a duopoly. I only cared for abuse of the entrenched position.
Because it did not result in any significant competition despite being available for a decade.
So the playstore just dominates because it’s the superior platform, wile other alternatives still exist such as the galaxy store or epic store🤔. Seems completely within reason.
This is such a key point people miss. Making billions of people's experience worse, less secure, and more dangerous for something that I'd be shocked if even 5% of users are asking for.
People don’t miss it. They dismiss it as irrelevant. Nobodies experience is made worse or less secure and dangerous.

The ability to stay within the playstore and never leaving is just as easy as iOS.
 
This is such a key point people miss. Making billions of people's experience worse, less secure, and more dangerous for something that I'd be shocked if even 5% of users are asking for.
Being able to manage their subscriptions through the Spotify or Netflix app alone and buying eBooks through Kindle will improve the experiences for many millions of iOS users.
 
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Not sure how they'd do that since it's open source. Reuters reported the ban did not prevent Huawei from accessing the open source project.

Feel free to provide a link if you find something different.
Any device that was releas
Not sure how they'd do that since it's open source. Reuters reported the ban did not prevent Huawei from accessing the open source project.

Feel free to provide a link if you find something different.
because essentially that is what they did because every device after may 2019
Huawei devices were no longer able to get security updates and apps and everything else
It basically turned it into what the Chinese customers get because they don’t get any of they stuff.
 
Any device that was releas

because essentially that is what they did because every device after may 2019
Huawei devices were no longer able to get security updates and apps and everything else
It basically turned it into what the Chinese customers get because they don’t get any of they stuff.
That’s what I said. They were banned from licensing Google Play Services which includes Google’s update service and the Play Store.
 
Why should I give my employment details on some random website?
Is that not how you could get virus or malware?
actually it's how you get phished or data harvested but not a virus or malware.

sorry but if you needed that explained... puts the rest of the arguments in context...

if you dont want to tell us the business, just tell us the app name.

I can't find anything about "hidden apps on appstore".
there's plenty about hiding purchased apps.
but an app for business purposes is downloadable by anyone and needs a sign in to use it.
that's my experience from CRM apps and rosters for staff. it tailors content based on ID and security settings to deliver screen content for you. don't have a log in? you see nothing but a log in screen.

it would be like downloading the Sony MusicCentre app.
anyone can download it but unless you have hardware the app recognises and interacts with then it is a useless app to you.
 
Why would you need a computer
When you have a slab of glass in your pocket
That over 5 billion people have.
and that slab of glass in your pocket contains a browser so you can sign in and do whatever you need just like a computer does... :)
 
If can you access it without the QR code to let
You in.
That is pinned to the notice board & you are told to scan the QR code that then gives you
Access 👍🏻
Not me the company tell you to scan the qr
Code as I’m just an employee
Not the CEO
So if management tell you this is the new way
Then that’s the rules & regulations
Or they will just kick me out for not following them
QR code is just an easy shortcut to saving you searching and typing.

you must be a dream employee... maybe check your Conditions of Employment document you signed.
or do you treat that like Epic treat the Apple Dev signup? :)
 
I personally don’t think it’s correct that google are allowed to essentially give their OS away for free
Because it stops a legitimate competitor from emerging against two companies
Unless your in china

And it also means that they a have monopoly on search because of it
At the moment only in china are they not number 1
However I believe the US government are trying to challenge them I believe

Because it makes the smartphone industry for consumers as a consequence
you are mixing OS and Search engines now...
 
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