Epic Games and Spotify Say Apple's Latest DMA Changes Are 'Illegal' and 'Deliberately Confusing'

This should be obvious. You cannot legally use Apple’s software for any purpose, let alone making money, without having a valid license from Apple.
I did not ask you to state the obvious, I asked you a specific question of which I would like a specific answer and that question was:

'So, please tell me what API's are Epic and Spotify using or going to use that constitute a 'license to make money' as you call it? and you cannot use the recently introduced API's Apple created because they are designed to prevent developers from moving away from the app store.'
 
Free apps can be distributed through the App Store according to Schedule 1 of the agreement.
They can after signing the license. Not before. Read the license.

Does the $99/year fee cover everything that's needed for such for-profit apps in Apple's ecosystem? Yes.
Whether Apple or the App maker makes money is immaterial to the fact that (as I have said before) no one gets to legally use Apple’s IP without a license from Apple.

You cannot pay the fee, not agree to the license, yet still distribute software. Stop conflating the $99 fee with the License.

Paragraph 1.1 of the license starts: "In order to use the Apple Software and Services, You must first accept this Agreement. If You do not or cannot accept this Agreement, You are not permitted to use the Apple Software or services."

Nowhere in the license does it say "In consideration for the $99 developer-website access fee, you get it all. Make your own rules." You must sign the license. Again: Stop conflating the $99 fee with the License which Apple requires you to agree to before you can distribute software.
 
I did not ask you to state the obvious, I asked you a specific question of which I would like a specific answer and that question was:

'So, please tell me what API's are Epic and Spotify using or going to use that constitute a 'license to make money' as you call it? and you cannot use the recently introduced API's Apple created because they are designed to prevent developers from moving away from the app store.'

What I said previously is "The yearly developer fee pays for access to Apple’s development resources, including code development support, downloads, beta programs, and education. It does not constitute a license to make money from the use of their libraries nor customer acquisition fees." In English, the "it" that begins the second sentence refers to the subject of the preceding sentence, viz., "The yearly developer fee". The "it" does not refer to an API.

There are separate licenses that one must sign before one may use Apple's IP, whether they are distributing a free app or a paid app. You can say you paid $99 for use of Apple's IP, but try paying the yearly developer fee without signing the license and see where that gets you.
 
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This is an interesting little fantasy you've woven for yourself. It naturally assumes that the EU needs Apple more than Apple needs the EU (spoiler alert - this couldn't be farther from the truth) or that other tech companies who are not in violation of the DMA would pull put in solidarity with their biggest competitor.
I don't think it's so much a fantasy as it is trying to theorycraft the various possible scenarios as to how Apple may react and the possible outcomes. While I admit that the possibility of Apple actually withdrawing from the EU is extremely slim, I don't think the chance is zero (or at least, it won't always stay zero), and it's cool to think what the outcome would be if Apple actually went down that route.

After all, isn't that why we are all here?
 
Is it any surprise why the tech giants being regulated are almost all US companies, with none emerging from the EU?
No, I'm not surprised at all.

Because they are not regulated and they believe they can do whatever they want in US, they will face issues abroad.

Look at Meta, with Oxford Analytics... They had issues because of GDPR!
 
At the same time, we are starting to see the unintended consequences creep in, from Apple Intelligence possibly being delayed (due to uncertainty as to whether Apple can adhere to the interoperability requirements of the DMA), to Microsoft blaming the EU in part for the fallout from Crowdstrike, to Meta's Llama model not being available
It's telling that the only "unintended (negative) consequences" you could come up with are Apple Intelligence and Meta's Llama - two products by yet again these "big tech" U.S. gatekeepers.

Let me tell you: I've got zero issues with them delaying their products in Europe.
If anything, it'll prevent them from command even more power and influence.

And Microsoft is bullsh*tt*ng everyone on the Crowdstrike fiasco anyway. Though this was, as I understand, barely more than on Microsoft employee's utterance being blown way out of proportion by the media.

You cannot pay the fee, not agree to the license, yet still distribute software. Stop conflating the $99 fee with the License
Yeah, but what's your point?
If you insist: You pay $99 for the developer agreement and agree to the licence:
That allows you to use Apple's IP, their APIs and online services (notably push messaging) to distribute for-profit apps.
The point is this: Developers need not pay more than $99 to distribute such for-profit apps through Apple's App Store.

In consideration for the $99 developer-website access fee, you get it all. Make your own rules." You must sign the license
Yes. And the EU enacted a law that disallows enforcing (only) certain clauses of that license:
Namely the ones that impose the use of other services (such as Apple's App Store and In-app-purchasing) for certain transactions on developers. Imposing them on only some for-profit apps that sell something (or would, e.g. Epic, Spotify) but not others (Uber, Doordash) was unjustified differentiation anyway.
 
It's telling that the only "unintended (negative) consequences" you could come up with are Apple Intelligence and Meta's Llama - two products by yet again these "big tech" U.S. gatekeepers.
Well, like I said, it's still early days. What the scene will look like in a couple of year's time is still anyone's guess at this point.
 
No, I'm not surprised at all.

Because they are not regulated and they believe they can do whatever they want in US, they will face issues abroad.

Look at Meta, with Oxford Analytics... They had issues because of GDPR!

You act as if there is no regulation in the US. There is. For example, Facebook was fined $5 billion by the Federal Trade Commission for their part in the Cambridge (not Oxford) Analytica privacy violations. They were only fined £500,000 in the UK. [BTW, Oxford Analytica is not happy that people confuse it with Cambridge Analytica. https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-analytica-says-not-cambridge-analytica-2018-3]
 
Harmful is completely subjective and is the meme that keeps giving. I’m harmed because Spotify raised its prices. It’s a monopoly I say.

Any business charges money to their customers for their products and services. Last time I checked Apple is not selling IP but products and services.

Just look around and check how many businesses do just that and don’t have a issue with regulations. A lot are successfull for way longer than Apple.

As you know Apple wants to charge a lot more than money 😉. Through an Internet terminal and clever story telling they found a way to put a gag on the entire and the internet connected economy at their discretion. Given that there were no regulations in place for these kinds of devices or providers of the kind, unlike many others that are crucial to the Internet function. Regulations that were unnecessary up until now.

Otherwise Apple approach to regulations would not be entirely based on presenting false dilemas to the market to steer businesses to the act of handing over their cash registers to Apple if they want to service their customers (not Apple’s) on the device. In the way their customers expect to in the device of their choice to access the Internet.

The idea that a technology company in order to be successfull and innovate these terminals needs to proceed this is way false. Other successfull players, also innovating and producing crucial technology to the way Internet works and the digital economy in general, yet not terminals, with even greater impact … simply do not. Why? Because at many instances their products and services were regulated. Giving space to companies like Apple to come to the place they are. Indeed , Apple business itself stands on the shoulders of many regulations. Without which it would never have existed … it would have been eclipsed by these players.
 
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As a consumer all-in on the Apple ecosystem, I fail to see how that is a net benefit for me as the end user. The reality is that Spotify is increasingly dependent on concessions from the music industry and a diversification away from music streaming just to improve its financial performance, which is not what I want. And because of the nature of those revenue sharing deals, even a higher subscription price may not necessarily flow to Spotify's coffers.
you as the consumer is't the most important thing, the makret itself and it's actors are just as important.

the Net benifit for me as a user is the potential for better products to be made available for me on my prefered platform of choice.

For example if i could own all my Games in Steam, such as my windows games, mac games and potentialy iPad games(ios too?) would be super convenient. one stop shop in what i consider the superior storefront.

if i could i would never use the appstore for anything as it's the worst user experience when it comes to finding anything of value that isn't a scam. if i want to look up any decent adblocking plugin it's a nightmare to find.

Or if i want to find horror puzzle games, or video editing software that isn't a 1 day trial and 600$ montly fee
 
I have faith in Apple's ability to navigate the DMA at minimal cost to themselves. It's still early days.

And as the saying goes - there is good in bad, just as there is bad in good.

Perhaps in the short run, the EU legislation appears to be a net good, with the iPhone 15 getting USB-C and consumers being able to access apps they otherwise wouldn't. At the same time, we are starting to see the unintended consequences creep in, from Apple Intelligence possibly being delayed (due to uncertainty as to whether Apple can adhere to the interoperability requirements of the DMA), to Microsoft blaming the EU in part for the fallout from Crowdstrike, to Meta's Llama model not being available. This is not a void that can be readily filled by smaller developers who simply don't have the system access to take the place of said features.

At the same time, what does it say about the EU's ability to compete on a global stage, because their legislation applies only within their borders (I don't think we will see a repeat of the cookie banner fiasco where everyone around the world ended up being spammed with endless meaningless popups), or of new companies' willingness to enter an increasingly regulated environment. After all, if developers can choose not to release apps for the iOS App Store, it stands to reason that people can also choose not to do business in the EU.

I suppose as long as people in the EU are cognisant of the tradeoffs the DMA will entail both in the short and long run, and are fine with it. I suspect the full ramifications have yet to unfold, with regards to what it means for new features from current entrenched businesses, pricing levels, as well as businesses that could have set foot in the EU (but ultimately didn't).

Time will tell.
one intresting thing tho, why do you think only big companies are able to inovate? how about preventing the big companies from stifling competition? Hvent you seen the power of the apple M and A chips? do you honestly think apple encourage innovation and progress if their Profts are threatened?

Could you think of 10 policies that apple have in their developer agreement/ store guidelines that if removed would improve innovation and quality on the iOS platform?

IBM was big back in the day, and so was HP.
They can after signing the license. Not before. Read the license.


Whether Apple or the App maker makes money is immaterial to the fact that (as I have said before) no one gets to legally use Apple’s IP without a license from Apple.

You cannot pay the fee, not agree to the license, yet still distribute software. Stop conflating the $99 fee with the License.

Paragraph 1.1 of the license starts: "In order to use the Apple Software and Services, You must first accept this Agreement. If You do not or cannot accept this Agreement, You are not permitted to use the Apple Software or services."

Nowhere in the license does it say "In consideration for the $99 developer-website access fee, you get it all. Make your own rules." You must sign the license. Again: Stop conflating the $99 fee with the License which Apple requires you to agree to before you can distribute software.
thank god we can develop apps without using apple software and services. only need a Mac or a Mac in a VM, or use some software like the Unreal Engine...
What I said previously is "The yearly developer fee pays for access to Apple’s development resources, including code development support, downloads, beta programs, and education. It does not constitute a license to make money from the use of their libraries nor customer acquisition fees." In English, the "it" that begins the second sentence refers to the subject of the preceding sentence, viz., "The yearly developer fee". The "it" does not refer to an API.

There are separate licenses that one must sign before one may use Apple's IP, whether they are distributing a free app or a paid app. You can say you paid $99 for use of Apple's IP, but try paying the yearly developer fee without signing the license and see where that gets you.
well then we have two big conundrums.

Apple IP being given away for free on the Mac and Decades of buying unsanctioned cydia/ sideloaded apps for the ios market

1: you can develop ios/MacOS/iPadOS softare and sell it for profit and pay apple 0€.
the fact it's been done since day 1 with no legal consequences. AppDB have bein in town for 11 years and even talked with apple.

2: Applications and games can be freely distributed on the Mac using apples private and public APIs, by only payin the 99€ membership fee they can use Xcode as well to develop and publish their content on their own website or in steam. you can sell it for 60€ or 1000€ without giving apple a single commission or Core technology fee.

now how do you square that?
 
Which would also explain why Apple has chosen to respond the way they did.

Just as the DMA may form the template with which the rest of the world adopts, Apple is also testing their response to the DMA for the eventuality that they have to roll it out to other regions besides the EU. One side wants the ultimate concession, while the other side is determined to concede as little as possible.


A small part of me wonders if the natural end state for all of this is Apple announcing a pulling out of the EU (and truly having the intention to leave if push comes to shove) and then having the European Commission come back to the table offering more lenient DMA enforcement terms. Especially if this threatens to cause a domino effect involving other Big Tech companies pulling out. I believe that Apple should support its ~100M iOS users in the EU by continuing to operate in the market, but you should all be overjoyed over this possibility, right? Apple can't break the rules in the EU if it ceases to operate there, they likely take a significant hit to their quarterly profits (further fuelling the "Apple is doomed" narrative), Tim Cook gets raked over the coals, and you can all finally migrate over to Android and enjoy the sideloading and third-party app stores that you have all been clamouring for since day 1.

100%

The reason Apple are willing to incur fines is because they are feeling for the minimum effective dose, or what is the least amount of changes to their current model that the EU will accept.

They know this is setting a precedent for regulators elsewhere.
 
Imposing them on only some for-profit apps that sell something (or would, e.g. Epic, Spotify) but not others (Uber, Doordash) was unjustified differentiation anyway.
For the 800th time, Apple has every right to offer one set of license terms for free apps that provide physical goods and services and another set of license terms for free apps that offer digital goods and services. Particularly when said digital goods and services are almost certainly going to be used on the device they’re being purchased from. Doesn’t matter if you think it’s unjustified (it’s not, but you’re entitled to your opinion).
 
one intresting thing tho, why do you think only big companies are able to inovate? how about preventing the big companies from stifling competition? Hvent you seen the power of the apple M and A chips? do you honestly think apple encourage innovation and progress if their Profts are threatened?

Could you think of 10 policies that apple have in their developer agreement/ store guidelines that if removed would improve innovation and quality on the iOS platform?

IBM was big back in the day, and so was HP.

thank god we can develop apps without using apple software and services. only need a Mac or a Mac in a VM, or use some software like the Unreal Engine...

well then we have two big conundrums.

Apple IP being given away for free on the Mac and Decades of buying unsanctioned cydia/ sideloaded apps for the ios market

1: you can develop ios/MacOS/iPadOS softare and sell it for profit and pay apple 0€.
the fact it's been done since day 1 with no legal consequences. AppDB have bein in town for 11 years and even talked with apple.

2: Applications and games can be freely distributed on the Mac using apples private and public APIs, by only payin the 99€ membership fee they can use Xcode as well to develop and publish their content on their own website or in steam. you can sell it for 60€ or 1000€ without giving apple a single commission or Core technology fee.

now how do you square that?

The issue concerns iOS, not Mac. Mac is not iOS. Mac is a legacy general purpose computer system.

iOS was not made to be a general purpose system, but rather a closed environment for phones. It was partially opened up to developers, but still never intended as a general purpose computing device. It’s licenses and the developer licenses are more restrictive than those for general computers. You can talk about lines blurring as hardware gets faster and phones more capable, but the fact is, iPhones are still sold to be smartphones, not desktop computers.

That 99€ membership fee is a developer membership. Before you can distribute software using those tools, you must agree to a license which sets out the terms. They differ for Mac and iOS. There’s nothing to square.
 
100%

The reason Apple are willing to incur fines is because they are feeling for the minimum effective dose, or what is the least amount of changes to their current model that the EU will accept.

They know this is setting a precedent for regulators elsewhere.

Apple paying fines is just a light deterrent. Apple impact on the EU digital economy is minimal and easily transferable. Unlike other reasonable and successfull players that have deep rooted infrastructure products and services. What Apple offers to this market is in sum just an internet terminal. A very good one indeed, that a lot of EU citizens have chosen to buy, but the bottom line is just that, a terminal, an empty shell that relies on the work of many to operate.

The impact of banning these terminals is very controlled and easily covered by other players willing comply. Let hope Apple does not lead its customers and investors to that end.
 
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For the 800th time, Apple has every right to offer one set of license terms for free apps that provide physical goods and services and another set of license terms for free apps that offer digital goods and services. Particularly when said digital goods and services are almost certainly going to be used on the device they’re being purchased from. Doesn’t matter if you think it’s unjustified (it’s not, but you’re entitled to your opinion).
And for the 801th time.
The issue is the apps are free in the AppStore, but not free outside the AppStore

And the DoorDash app is free on the AppStore as it makes money for free, while the same app outside the store suddenly has to pay.

Same apps, one is inside the store.

Apple have failed to demonstrate what the CTF is actually paying for. If they don’t use the CTF in the store, then developers should be able to do the same thing without the CTF as demonstrated.
 
It's telling that the only "unintended (negative) consequences" you could come up with are Apple Intelligence and Meta's Llama - two products by yet again these "big tech" U.S. gatekeepers.

If Europe were capable of providing any competition, this wouldn’t be an issue for you.

Yeah, but what's your point?

If you’ve lost track, you could go back to the original post. I’m not doing your homework for you.

If you insist: You pay $99 for the developer agreement and agree to the licence:

Oh… so close. The $99 is for access to the developer tools, educational material, and code-level support. It isn’t payment for the license. The license is a separate agreement you must sign before distributing software developed using Apple’s tools.

The point is this: Developers need not pay more than $99 to distribute such for-profit apps through Apple's App Store.

Oops, I see you didn’t get the point. You pay for access to the tools. You still have to agree to the licenses. Those set out terms for free and paid apps. $99 may be all an individual developer will pay to develop and distribute a free app. Paid apps have different terms, and usually a lot more developers.

Yes. And the EU enacted a law that disallows enforcing (only) certain clauses of that license:
Namely the ones that impose the use of other services (such as Apple's App Store and In-app-purchasing) for certain transactions on developers. Imposing them on only some for-profit apps that sell something (or would, e.g. Epic, Spotify) but not others (Uber, Doordash) was unjustified differentiation anyway.
Yes, the EU has passed some laws to cripple some foreign companies. It has ever right to kill innovation within its borders by changing its market economy to prop up companies with horrible business models, like Spotify.

Your opinion that Apple is unjustified to differentiate between digital services and physical services undercuts an argument you like to make, namely, that there is a different between a digital market place and a physical market place. Sounds a lot like special pleading.
 
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The issue concerns iOS, not Mac. Mac is not iOS. Mac is a legacy general purpose computer system.
The fact iOS and Mac are different is completely irrelevant from a legal perspective as they both can run the exact same native apps if you want.

A smartphone and a computer haven’t been legally defined as different.
iOS was not made to be a general purpose system, but rather a closed environment for phones. It was partially opened up to developers, but still never intended as a general purpose computing device. It’s licenses and the developer licenses are more restrictive than those for general computers. You can talk about lines blurring as hardware gets faster and phones more capable, but the fact is, iPhones are still sold to be smartphones, not desktop computers.
Nowhere do I need to sign an agreement to deploy iOS apps. The only requirement is for the ability to sell and distribute apps though the iOS AppStore, iPad AppStore and the Mac AppStore. And to have an AppStore certificate.
That 99€ membership fee is a developer membership. Before you can distribute software using those tools, you must agree to a license which sets out the terms. They differ for Mac and iOS. There’s nothing to square.
It absolutely is when we have the same exact contract with an arbitrary difference.
None of apples tools are required, but apple tries to enforce its use without a legal justification.

If I sell an iPad app though cydia, appen, or any other alternative app distribution system that have been in use for the last decade.

why is this completely legal and cosher?
If I sell the exact same app but for the M4 Mac it’s treated the same
 
Apple IP being given away for free on the Mac and Decades of buying unsanctioned cydia/ sideloaded apps for the ios market

Apple does not sell IP. It sells devices and digital services. Nothing has been given for free by Apple on MacOS.

The fact that people can install software beyond what is offered by the App Store, much like any prior art in this context, it’s does not equate to selling IP or giving it for free. That is Apple surreal storyline.

Last time I checked users have payed for those devices and licensed the OS with the premise that they can run software intrinsically. What is an OS in this context without the ability of running software? What would be its worth? 0. Just like any other desktop / laptop OS. When this intrinsic ability of an OS to be valued to an end user went optional is the result of clever storytelling. That is all.

Users have payed for the device to run software. Developers using XCode and OS and native Frameworks, have payed for that to build their software. They also pay for botorization if they ever so decide it is important o their customers.
 
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If Europe were capable of providing any competition, this wouldn’t be an issue for you.
Well you should check what enterprise software everyone in fortune500 uses (not American). But as it tends to be, American companies are good at consumer packaging and EU is good with the technology and industry.
Your opinion that Apple is unjustified to differentiate between digital services and physical services undercuts an argument you like to make, namely, that there is a different between a digital market place and a physical market place. Sounds a lot like special pleading.

Who have argued that there a difference between physical and digital market places? A sale is a sale and transfer of ownership.

We are saying they are the same, and have drawn the parallel that if physical market places was limited in the same way it would never be accepted in eu.

Heck just compare the Refusal to Deal and Essential Facilities Doctrine and how it’s interpreted

They are both important concepts in competition law, but their application differs significantly between the European Union (EU) and the United States (U.S.). Below is a comparison of how these practices are treated in each jurisdiction.

1. Legal Framework

• EU:
• The EU addresses Refusal to Deal primarily under Article 102 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU), which prohibits the abuse of a dominant market position.
• The Essential Facilities Doctrine is more readily applied in the EU, where regulators may compel a dominant company to provide access to critical infrastructure or resources if refusing access would harm competition.
• U.S.:
• In the U.S., Refusal to Deal is assessed under Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, which deals with monopolization and attempts to monopolize.
• The Essential Facilities Doctrine is less favored in the U.S., with courts being more reluctant to compel companies to deal with competitors. U.S. antitrust law generally emphasizes the right of a company to choose with whom it does business.

2. Threshold for Intervention

• EU:
• The EU has a lower threshold for intervention in Refusal to Deal cases. If a dominant firm’s refusal to supply or deal harms competition and cannot be objectively justified, the EU is more likely to intervene.
• The Bronner case (1998) set a high bar for applying the Essential Facilities Doctrine, requiring that the facility be indispensable for competitors, that refusing access would eliminate competition, and that there is no objective justification for the refusal.
• U.S.:
• The U.S. applies a higher threshold for finding a refusal to deal unlawful. The Supreme Court in the Verizon Communications Inc. v. Law Offices of Curtis V. Trinko, LLP (2004) case significantly narrowed the scope for applying the Essential Facilities Doctrine, emphasizing that firms generally have no obligation to assist competitors.
• The U.S. courts often require that the refusal be part of a broader, anti-competitive strategy that harms consumer welfare, making it more difficult to prove than in the EU.

3. Examples of Application

• EU:
• IMS Health (2004): The EU required IMS Health to license a copyrighted data format to competitors, recognizing the format as essential for competition in the pharmaceutical sales data market.
• Microsoft (2007): The EU found Microsoft guilty of abusing its dominance by refusing to provide competitors with interoperability information, which was essential for them to compete in the server software market.
• U.S.:
• Aspen Skiing Co. v. Aspen Highlands Skiing Corp. (1985): One of the few U.S. cases where a refusal to deal was found unlawful, the Supreme Court ruled against Aspen Skiing Co. for refusing to continue a joint lift ticket arrangement, which was seen as anti-competitive.
• Verizon v. Trinko (2004): The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Verizon’s refusal to provide access to its network did not violate antitrust laws, narrowing the application of the Essential Facilities Doctrine and emphasizing the company’s right to refuse to deal.

4. Approach to Essential Facilities Doctrine

• EU:
• The EU is more proactive in applying the Essential Facilities Doctrine, especially when a dominant company’s control over an infrastructure or resource could harm competition. The EU focuses on maintaining competitive market structures and often steps in to prevent market foreclosure.
• U.S.:
• The U.S. is more reluctant to apply the Essential Facilities Doctrine. U.S. antitrust law tends to prioritize the protection of business incentives and innovation over forced access, reflecting a belief that compelled sharing could reduce the incentive for companies to invest in and develop new facilities.

5. Objective Justification and Efficiency

• EU:
• The EU may allow a refusal to deal if the dominant company can provide a compelling objective justification (e.g., capacity constraints, quality concerns). However, the burden is on the company to prove that the refusal is not aimed at harming competition.
• U.S.:
• In the U.S., if a refusal to deal can be shown to have legitimate business justifications or efficiencies (such as maintaining product quality or ensuring safety), it is more likely to be upheld by the courts, even if it has some negative impact on competition.

6. Impact on Innovation

• EU:
• The EU tends to emphasize the protection of competition over the preservation of business autonomy, which can lead to more interventions that compel firms to share their innovations or infrastructures.
• U.S.:
• U.S. courts and regulators are more concerned about maintaining incentives for innovation. They argue that compelling firms to deal with competitors could discourage investment in new technologies or infrastructure, potentially harming long-term consumer welfare.

Conclusion:

The EU is generally more interventionist in dealing with Refusal to Deal and the Essential Facilities Doctrine, often prioritizing the maintenance of competitive markets and preventing the foreclosure of competitors. In contrast, the U.S. takes a more laissez-faire approach, emphasizing the rights of businesses to control their resources and deal with others as they see fit, unless there is clear evidence of harm to consumer welfare and competition. This difference reflects broader contrasts in how competition law is enforced in the two jurisdictions, with the EU being more focused on market structure and the U.S. on consumer outcomes
 
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For the 800th time, Apple has every right to offer one set of license terms for free apps that provide physical goods and services and another set of license terms for free apps that offer digital goods and services. Particularly when said digital goods and services are almost certainly going to be used on the device they’re being purchased from. Doesn’t matter if you think it’s unjustified (it’s not, but you’re entitled to your opinion).
How many times do we have to go over this?

Spotify and Epic are selling software products or subscriptions.
And if they dont want to pay Apple anything, they can having a free app and you signup outside the app.
It's worked well for Spotify for a very long time.
Epic's issue they still need a way to download the app to you and outside EU that means AppStore. ;)

Uber and Doordash are not selling anything. Their apps connect you to a driver/restaurant and payment handled outside Apple. They take a commission for connecting you from the provider not you. Nothing provided comes from Apple. Apple arent sending the driver nor cooking your food.

Totally different concepts.
 
...you like to make, namely, that there is a different between a digital market place and a physical market place.
The citizens (or non-citizens) living the EU have more consumer rights. For example, the standard EU consumer law gives you 2 year statutory guarantee for the device you buy (computer, laptop, mobile phone etc). In some EU countries, that right is even more, 6 years in Ireland, for example.

Screenshot 2024-08-11 at 15.34.23.jpg

The makers have to make more reliable devices to sell there.👌
 
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